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Videos - Was the referee / TMO / Citing right?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ap sior Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 January 2016 at 5:06pm
Originally posted by KID A KID A wrote:

I'm not sure there's enough evidence to suggest a gouge, but it should have been a penalty.

https://embed.gyazo.com/9d2c327ab3b5d124a7a4e9d200061852.mp4

It was already a penalty to us at the scrum. The incident was after the scrum broke up. Did you mean that it should have been a yellow card ? 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KID A Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 January 2016 at 5:33pm
Originally posted by ap sior ap sior wrote:

Originally posted by KID A KID A wrote:

I'm not sure there's enough evidence to suggest a gouge, but it should have been a penalty.

https://embed.gyazo.com/9d2c327ab3b5d124a7a4e9d200061852.mp4


It was already a penalty to us at the scrum. The incident was after the scrum broke up. Did you mean that it should have been a yellow card ? 


It's not exactly a haymaker but I've seen yellows given for similar.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KID A Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 November 2016 at 9:57am
From yesterday's Ire v NZ match. Aaron Smith was given a yellow card for this but I didn't see Jaco Peyper signal for the offence.

The ball seems to be out of the ruck, so isn't it open play? Peyper can't have pinged Smith for "kicking in the ruck and not being bound" - because the ball isn't even in the ruck when he kicks it.

The question must be whether Smith came from an offside position. But since the ball looks playable, doesn't the offside line at ruck formation effectively disappear?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scarletman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 November 2016 at 1:02pm
Take your pick from these ...
  1. He wasn't behind the back foot before the ball left the ruck
  2. The ball hadn't been played by the Scrum Half so he tackled the man without the ball
  3. The initial contact was above the shoulder so had the SH had both hands on the ball and it was off the ground, it would have been a a high tackle !
Penalty correct!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KID A Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 November 2016 at 2:54pm
Originally posted by scarletman scarletman wrote:

Take your pick from these ...
  1. He wasn't behind the back foot before the ball left the ruck
  2. The ball hadn't been played by the Scrum Half so he tackled the man without the ball
  3. The initial contact was above the shoulder so had the SH had both hands on the ball and it was off the ground, it would have been a a high tackle !
Penalty correct!


Thanks!

Where in the laws is #2?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote multinational Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 November 2016 at 3:25pm
Originally posted by KID A KID A wrote:

Originally posted by scarletman scarletman wrote:

Take your pick from these ...
  1. He wasn't behind the back foot before the ball left the ruck
  2. The ball hadn't been played by the Scrum Half so he tackled the man without the ball
  3. The initial contact was above the shoulder so had the SH had both hands on the ball and it was off the ground, it would have been a a high tackle !
Penalty correct!


Thanks!

Where in the laws is #2?
 
I would argue that the Irish SH actually tackled him anyway.....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KID A Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 November 2016 at 3:27pm
Originally posted by multinational multinational wrote:

Originally posted by KID A KID A wrote:

Originally posted by scarletman scarletman wrote:

Take your pick from these ...
  1. He wasn't behind the back foot before the ball left the ruck
  2. The ball hadn't been played by the Scrum Half so he tackled the man without the ball
  3. The initial contact was above the shoulder so had the SH had both hands on the ball and it was off the ground, it would have been a a high tackle !
Penalty correct!


Thanks!

Where in the laws is #2?

 
I would argue that the Irish SH actually tackled him anyway.....


Personally I would argue against all 3 points! Refs eh?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aber-fan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 November 2016 at 4:30pm
It's hard to tell exactly what happens without stop-motion.

My Qs would be:

1. Was a ruck actually formed at all, or was it a 'free ball'?

2. If a ruck was definitely formed, did the AB come from behind the rear foot? (stop-motion would definitely help here).

Unless the AB offended according to 1 & 2 above, I'd agree that it is the Irish player who instigates the 'tackle without the ball', rather than the other way round.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scarletman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 November 2016 at 4:49pm
Originally posted by aber-fan aber-fan wrote:

It's hard to tell exactly what happens without stop-motion.

My Qs would be:

1. Was a ruck actually formed at all, or was it a 'free ball'?

2. If a ruck was definitely formed, did the AB come from behind the rear foot? (stop-motion would definitely help here).

Unless the AB offended according to 1 & 2 above, I'd agree that it is the Irish player who instigates the 'tackle without the ball', rather than the other way round.

YOU CAN'T TACKLE A PLAYER WHO IS NOT IN POSSESSION OF THE BALL AS HE WOULD NOT BE THE BALL CARRIER !!!!

LAW 15
"A tackle occurs when the ball carrier is held by one or more opponents and is brought to ground."

Sorry Aber Fan, this was aimed at Multi's question not yours !


Edited by scarletman - 23 November 2016 at 4:51pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote supertaf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 November 2016 at 4:50pm
Originally posted by KID A KID A wrote:

Originally posted by scarletman scarletman wrote:

Take your pick from these ...
  1. He wasn't behind the back foot before the ball left the ruck
  2. The ball hadn't been played by the Scrum Half so he tackled the man without the ball
  3. The initial contact was above the shoulder so had the SH had both hands on the ball and it was off the ground, it would have been a a high tackle !
Penalty correct!


Thanks!

Where in the laws is #2?
Are you saying that in the laws, there is nothing to stop a man being played before he has the ball in hand? Surely that is encompassed by tackling without the ball no matter where on the pitch?
In addition it's something that infuriates players and supporters alike and has become more prevalent in recent years with the amount of players being tackled away from the ruck (and held) and nothing being done by officials. It's why Condy took offence and ended up with a red.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scarletman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 November 2016 at 4:53pm
Originally posted by supertaf supertaf wrote:

Originally posted by KID A KID A wrote:

Originally posted by scarletman scarletman wrote:

Take your pick from these ...
  1. He wasn't behind the back foot before the ball left the ruck
  2. The ball hadn't been played by the Scrum Half so he tackled the man without the ball
  3. The initial contact was above the shoulder so had the SH had both hands on the ball and it was off the ground, it would have been a a high tackle !
Penalty correct!


Thanks!

Where in the laws is #2?
Are you saying that in the laws, there is nothing to stop a man being played before he has the ball in hand? Surely that is encompassed by tackling without the ball no matter where on the pitch?
In addition it's something that infuriates players and supporters alike and has become more prevalent in recent years with the amount of players being tackled away from the ruck (and held) and nothing being done by officials. It's why Condy took offence and ended up with a red.

Yes .... And it infuriates me too !
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ap sior Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 November 2016 at 8:11pm
Originally posted by supertaf supertaf wrote:

Originally posted by KID A KID A wrote:

Originally posted by scarletman scarletman wrote:

Take your pick from these ...
  1. He wasn't behind the back foot before the ball left the ruck
  2. The ball hadn't been played by the Scrum Half so he tackled the man without the ball
  3. The initial contact was above the shoulder so had the SH had both hands on the ball and it was off the ground, it would have been a a high tackle !
Penalty correct!


Thanks!

Where in the laws is #2?
Are you saying that in the laws, there is nothing to stop a man being played before he has the ball in hand? Surely that is encompassed by tackling without the ball no matter where on the pitch?
In addition it's something that infuriates players and supporters alike and has become more prevalent in recent years with the amount of players being tackled away from the ruck (and held) and nothing being done by officials. It's why Condy took offence and ended up with a red.

If you think back it was also the reason why we lost at the RDS last season. Parkes was tackled without the ball, driven back and then McGrath (?) flopped over the line.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote haydn_davies Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 November 2016 at 9:16am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scarletman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 November 2016 at 9:32am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aber-fan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 November 2016 at 5:08pm
Originally posted by scarletman scarletman wrote:

Originally posted by supertaf supertaf wrote:

Originally posted by KID A KID A wrote:

Originally posted by scarletman scarletman wrote:

Take your pick from these ...
  1. He wasn't behind the back foot before the ball left the ruck
  2. The ball hadn't been played by the Scrum Half so he tackled the man without the ball
  3. The initial contact was above the shoulder so had the SH had both hands on the ball and it was off the ground, it would have been a a high tackle !
Penalty correct!


Thanks!

Where in the laws is #2?
Are you saying that in the laws, there is nothing to stop a man being played before he has the ball in hand? Surely that is encompassed by tackling without the ball no matter where on the pitch?
In addition it's something that infuriates players and supporters alike and has become more prevalent in recent years with the amount of players being tackled away from the ruck (and held) and nothing being done by officials. It's why Condy took offence and ended up with a red.

Yes .... And it infuriates me too !

Really?

Could this not be penalised under the law on obstruction?

I get annoyed when players who are approaching a ruck get taken out before they even arrive and engage... so is that legal, as things stand? If it is, surely the law makers should change it.
“You cannot reason a man out of what he never reasoned himself into.” (Jonathan Swift)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scarletman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 November 2016 at 8:50am
Originally posted by aber-fan aber-fan wrote:

Originally posted by scarletman scarletman wrote:

Originally posted by supertaf supertaf wrote:

Originally posted by KID A KID A wrote:

Originally posted by scarletman scarletman wrote:

Take your pick from these ...
  1. He wasn't behind the back foot before the ball left the ruck
  2. The ball hadn't been played by the Scrum Half so he tackled the man without the ball
  3. The initial contact was above the shoulder so had the SH had both hands on the ball and it was off the ground, it would have been a a high tackle !
Penalty correct!


Thanks!

Where in the laws is #2?
Are you saying that in the laws, there is nothing to stop a man being played before he has the ball in hand? Surely that is encompassed by tackling without the ball no matter where on the pitch?
In addition it's something that infuriates players and supporters alike and has become more prevalent in recent years with the amount of players being tackled away from the ruck (and held) and nothing being done by officials. It's why Condy took offence and ended up with a red.

Yes .... And it infuriates me too !

Really?

Could this not be penalised under the law on obstruction?

I get annoyed when players who are approaching a ruck get taken out before they even arrive and engage... so is that legal, as things stand? If it is, surely the law makers should change it.

Sorry, I highlighted the wrong sentence (Boss walked in while I was doing it !! ConfusedEmbarrassed)
It should be penalised under the law 10.4 (Dangerous Play & Misconduct)

(e)
Dangerous tackling. A player must not tackle an opponent early, late or dangerously.

Sanction: Penalty kick

Playing a player without the ball is dangerous play.

Sanction: Penalty kick




Edited by scarletman - 25 November 2016 at 8:55am
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