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ladram View Drop Down
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    Posted: 06 April 2021 at 11:36am
Andrew coombes makes some good points in wol today about the business loan the wru took out to give us money to survive and then passed the payments on to the regions,does anyone more erudite (most of you)than me know how that is legal?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gaffer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 April 2021 at 4:46pm
Originally posted by ladram ladram wrote:

Andrew coombes makes some good points in wol today about the business loan the wru took out to give us money to survive and then passed the payments on to the regions,does anyone more erudite (most of you)than me know how that is legal?


It is the situation as it stands. Crazy as it may seem. The regions will be paying back £20m of £23m borrowed.The WRU  is not fit for purpose in running the pro game. In fact most of  the  WRU have no interest in the pro-game; they are committee men from small clubs who spend all the WRU grants on poaching players from each other rather than on coaching or development facilities. As long as the national team is successful, international fixtures will generate the income that small clubs fritter away so they can beat the local rival or win Division 6 West. Other than that they have little interest in the Regions who they see as greedy monsters siphoning off money from "the grass roots".  They'll wax lyrical about the good old days and local derbies against Aberflyarf. Let's get real. The days of small clubs challenging at the top level are long gone. There isn't enough money to have the Pontys, Neath, Ebbw Vale, Bridgend + Cardiff, Swansea, Llanelli, Newport any more. We can barely support three but that's where the  next generation of internationals will come from and those players need to be competitive at European level in order to make the jump to international level.  The financial structure and control of the game needs to be in the hands of a streamlined. professionally exprerienced, board which puts the pro game first because everything is dependent on its success. It can't run by committee men from Bargoed any more.


Edited by gaffer - 06 April 2021 at 5:21pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gaffer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 April 2021 at 5:39pm
This, from Simon Thomas' article in WoL(11/03/21)  regarding the CVC windfall.

"What will the money be spent on in Wales?

The WRU plan is to invest the money in long term projects which will pay regular dividends in the future.

We’ve already seen this strategy in action with the Westgate Hotel development.

That involves the old post office building on Westgate Street, next to the Principality Stadium, being converted into a hotel, with an opening pencilled in for this autumn.

The idea behind that WRU project is to make an initial capital investment to generate revenue on an annual basis.

So it seems we can expect to see more schemes of that nature.

One example would be the proposed roof walk visitor attraction, which would enable people to walk on top of the roof of the Principality Stadium, taking in panoramic views of Cardiff.

The WRU has also dipped a toe in the brewing market with the launch of its own beer and that might be a sign of things to come in terms of an area for further investment.

There has obviously been a major shortfall in income as a result of the Covid-19 pandemic.

But it's pretty clear the CVC money will not be used by the WRU to plug that gap in the short-term, with generating future income being their firm focus.

In essence, the Union approach could best be summed up as looking at tomorrow rather than today.

For them, it's all about long-term sustainability.

Now, inevitably, questions will be raised over the financial plight of Wales’ four pro teams and whether a portion of the CVC money should not be used to address their immediate issues.

The regions have had their payments from the WRU slashed from £26m to £3m due to the pandemic.

A £20m bank loan has been taken out with NatWest to keep the pro game afloat, but that will have to be paid back by the four teams.

Fans of the regions will be far from happy if all the CVC money goes towards more hotel-style projects when the sides they support are facing such a financial burden.

However, it does seem as though the Union’s focus will be on the long-term rather than any short-term fix.

There are moves to renegotiate the terms of the £20m bank loan, so that it will be paid back over a longer term and with reduced interest.

But it will still be the regions paying it back and it's pretty clear that none of the £51m CVC money will be making its way to them in the short-term.

Instead the focus will be on the WRU using the money they are to receive over the next five years to generate long-term income for the Welsh game.

In essence, it's a case of them focusing on equity rather than debt and on new streams of future revenue.

On that front, there is one comment in the Union's press release on the deal that really catches the eye. It comes from chairman Rob Butcher.

He says: “If the recent challenges faced across the sporting landscape teach us anything, it is that diversifying our income beyond the traditional stadium income model is vital.”

That gives a pretty clear clue of the direction of travel we can expect to see - projects that will “make this money work hard for Welsh rugby in the long term”, to again use Butcher’s words."


When any of the dividends from this 'diversification' will ever get to improve the Regions is anybody's guess. Great isn't it...



Edited by gaffer - 06 April 2021 at 5:44pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jones2004 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 April 2021 at 5:49pm
Originally posted by gaffer gaffer wrote:

This, from Simon Thomas' article in WoL(11/03/21)  regarding the CVC windfall.

"What will the money be spent on in Wales?

The WRU plan is to invest the money in long term projects which will pay regular dividends in the future.

We’ve already seen this strategy in action with the Westgate Hotel development.

That involves the old post office building on Westgate Street, next to the Principality Stadium, being converted into a hotel, with an opening pencilled in for this autumn.

The idea behind that WRU project is to make an initial capital investment to generate revenue on an annual basis.

So it seems we can expect to see more schemes of that nature.

One example would be the proposed roof walk visitor attraction, which would enable people to walk on top of the roof of the Principality Stadium, taking in panoramic views of Cardiff.

The WRU has also dipped a toe in the brewing market with the launch of its own beer and that might be a sign of things to come in terms of an area for further investment.

There has obviously been a major shortfall in income as a result of the Covid-19 pandemic.

But it's pretty clear the CVC money will not be used by the WRU to plug that gap in the short-term, with generating future income being their firm focus.

In essence, the Union approach could best be summed up as looking at tomorrow rather than today.

For them, it's all about long-term sustainability.

Now, inevitably, questions will be raised over the financial plight of Wales’ four pro teams and whether a portion of the CVC money should not be used to address their immediate issues.

The regions have had their payments from the WRU slashed from £26m to £3m due to the pandemic.

A £20m bank loan has been taken out with NatWest to keep the pro game afloat, but that will have to be paid back by the four teams.

Fans of the regions will be far from happy if all the CVC money goes towards more hotel-style projects when the sides they support are facing such a financial burden.

However, it does seem as though the Union’s focus will be on the long-term rather than any short-term fix.

There are moves to renegotiate the terms of the £20m bank loan, so that it will be paid back over a longer term and with reduced interest.

But it will still be the regions paying it back and it's pretty clear that none of the £51m CVC money will be making its way to them in the short-term.

Instead the focus will be on the WRU using the money they are to receive over the next five years to generate long-term income for the Welsh game.

In essence, it's a case of them focusing on equity rather than debt and on new streams of future revenue.

On that front, there is one comment in the Union's press release on the deal that really catches the eye. It comes from chairman Rob Butcher.

He says: “If the recent challenges faced across the sporting landscape teach us anything, it is that diversifying our income beyond the traditional stadium income model is vital.”

That gives a pretty clear clue of the direction of travel we can expect to see - projects that will “make this money work hard for Welsh rugby in the long term”, to again use Butcher’s words."

When any of the dividends from this 'diversification' will ever get to improve the Regions is anybody's guess. Great isn't it...

I’m not necessarily opposed to them investing in all of these things if they believe it will bring in more revenues in the future but the CVC money from the Pro 14 (as well as the money from the Six Nations CVC deal preferably) should be spent on the regions, with the WRU using their own money / borrowing to fund these extra projects, especially since they currently have so little debt. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RR1972 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 April 2021 at 6:42pm
I have a feeling any extra wru money will be spent bringing back welsh qualified players. I can see them trying to get the likes on toby f , owen williams and maybe even lrz back. They are looking out for team wales above everything else. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Eastern outpost Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 April 2021 at 6:46pm
Here’s my view fwiw, right or entirely wrong.

What is the purpose of a sporting governing body?
To promote the sport through good times and bad.
The exact details will be written down in, what should be publicly available, statements. Whether this is something recent and trendy, or dating back to the Articles & Memorandum of Assoctions is another matter.

Investments
Should come from surplus funds available, after having honoured commitments to the game. With the current structure, the WRU have set aside an untouchable sum for non-revenue producing (for the WRU) grassroots. What tests for value for money etc are applied here is anyone’s guess.
If it’s the bidding war to recruit players to Aberflyhalf instead of Cwmandenjoywinningwithus, can anyone justify why the governing body should pay for that?


In this pandemic, even the Tory govt have borrowed more than they’ve ever borrowed before to help out the people. Quite why the WRU, in the heart of traditional Labour support, should continue the austerity policies of George Osborne is anyone’s guess, too. 
I’m probably not alone in wanting to know.


Are the WRU breaching any agreements, or contracts, by what they’re doing with the finances is a question for others in more privileged positions.

Could the board members be sued for negligence due to the actions they’ve taken? Unless covered by insurance, there’s not a lot of point in taking an ex-teacher, for example, to court for personal liabilities that are likely to exceed their assets by a large multiple.

Are the press asking the right questions?

Some are putting the spotlight on the issue and Andrew Coombes’s piece is timely and direct. As an ex-international who is bilingual, he can take a more outspoken stance. What about others within the Welsh rugby media?

Many journalists have less currency, compared to Andrew and others so if they want to pursue the story, they have to play a longer game.

Sadly, not enough are interested, it seems. The threat of lack of access to sources as punishment for critical coverage is too much for them.

Just my musings, of course, and could be total tosh.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RR1972 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 April 2021 at 8:01pm
Out of curio if the wru gave each region an extra million pounds right now. How do we think each region would spend it?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gaffer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 April 2021 at 8:08pm
Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

Out of curio if the wru gave each region an extra million pounds right now. How do we think each region would spend it?


I think they'd all look at players first, new and re-signings. Then maybe coaches. Then maybe development schemes.

Possibly not the right order but who knows....??
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RR1972 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 April 2021 at 8:18pm
Not defending the wru and i agree all regions need better players and more finance. But how would say each region bringing in 3 top class nwq players in on huge money help the welsh test team or improve the wru finances? Any more money they do release is imo going
To come with caveats on how and where it can be spent. Eg only being used to target wq players and going on coaches and player development not on first team quick fixes. Not saying they Are right but i think that’s what they will do


Edited by RR1972 - 06 April 2021 at 8:20pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Eastern outpost Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 April 2021 at 8:25pm
Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

Not defending the wru and i agree all regions need better players and more finance. But how would say each region bringing in 3 top class nwq players in on huge money help the welsh test team or improve the wru finances? Any more money they do release is imo going
To come with caveats on how and where it can be spent. Eg only being used to target wq players and going on coaches and player development not on first team quick fixes. Not saying they Are right but i think that’s what they will do
How can you set targets for the business, when you’ve reneged on agreed and achieved targets under current agreements?

Edited by Eastern outpost - 06 April 2021 at 8:25pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rob Hunt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 April 2021 at 8:35pm
Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

Out of curio if the wru gave each region an extra million pounds right now. How do we think each region would spend it?
Suspect the Ospreys would could continue their raid on the other regions’ academy products, judging by today’s new signing.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RR1972 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 April 2021 at 8:36pm
They’ll point to covid . They will just point to loss of revenue due to covid. I’m not sure what guranteed funding was set in stone. Rugby journos seem very non commitall on this. the point stands though there is no real upside for the wru if the regions bring in a few over seas stars is there? I agree we need better players and more funding i’m just saying what they will say. The wru are more focussed on long term income streams than helping the regions. Untill team wales get affected they won’t care

Edited by RR1972 - 06 April 2021 at 8:45pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RR1972 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 April 2021 at 8:37pm
Originally posted by Rob Hunt Rob Hunt wrote:

Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

Out of curio if the wru gave each region an extra million pounds right now. How do we think each region would spend it?
Suspect the Ospreys would could continue their raid on the other regions’ academy products, judging by today’s new signing.
i don’t think the blues had offered this warren a contract extension . I maybe wrong mind surprised the blues releasing him if he’s any good but keeping the likes of scott andrews!

Edited by RR1972 - 06 April 2021 at 8:40pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Eastern outpost Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 April 2021 at 8:51pm
If the market for top players is expensive, it is better to pay to increase the quality of coaches in your organisation.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RR1972 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 April 2021 at 9:08pm
Originally posted by Eastern outpost Eastern outpost wrote:

If the market for top players is expensive, it is better to pay to increase the quality of coaches in your organisation.


i agree. Leinster have gone down this route rather than super star player recruitment. In saying that it worked for toloun and sarries!👍

Edited by RR1972 - 06 April 2021 at 9:15pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Eastern outpost Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 April 2021 at 9:21pm
Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

Originally posted by Eastern outpost Eastern outpost wrote:

If the market for top players is expensive, it is better to pay to increase the quality of coaches in your organisation.


i agree. Leinster have gone down this route rather than super star player recruitment. In saying that it worked for toloun and sarries!👍
The latter two have pockets deeper than your stingiest drinking mate in terms of when they’d buy a round.
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