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20 mph speed limits from 18 September 2023

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RR1972 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RR1972 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 September 2023 at 2:10pm
Originally posted by scarletpimp scarletpimp wrote:

The hot air generated on this thread is laughable.LOL

My wife and I WALK in and around Llanelli quite a lot.
We also live in an existing 20mph (limit PRIOR to the new limits coming in to effect on Sunday).
Do people stick to the limits..do they hell !
I walked Llanelli today and saw people speeding around.
The police are not going to do anything , so as we live in a "free for all " society, people do what they want.
Nothing will change.

Historically,  it was Barbara Castle , then minister of Transport(1965-68), who brought  in restrictions.
In Feb. 1966 Castle addressed Parliament , calling for profound change in public attitudes" to curtail increasing road fatality figures, stating "Hitler did did not manage to kill as many civilians in Britain's have have been killed on the roads ,since the war". The statistics bore out; between 1945 and the mid 1960's 150,00 were killed and several million injured on Britain's roads.
The situation is 100 times worse now, with more and more cars on the road.

According to various road safety organisations including the AA & RAC, many local authorities representing 28 million people in the UK have declared the national 30mph limit as no longer fit for purpose for most of their urban and village streets and replaced it with 20mph limits.

Another interesting statistic, research unveiled  at the recent COP26 climate conference, revealed that a 20mph can reduce Co2 and people harming NOx by more than 25%.
With transport representing 27% of the total carbon emissions in the UK, then reducing it by a quarter, is a substantive measure that can easily taken to reduce climate warming

"Brake", the road safety charity, reported that every 16 minutes someone is killed or seriously injured on UK roads. In total 1,6008 were killed in 2021, with deaths up 20% on 2020.
The police recorded that 30% of deaths were attributed to drivers exceeding the speed limit.

Last year a motorcyclist was very seriously injured turning right in to Walters rd towards Bigyn hill.
Dreadful parking meant that visibility was partly obscured, but what caused the severity of the collision, was the car travelling down Walters rd at speed. This led to the 20mph being introduced.
I also saw a pensioner being knocked over at the crossing, from pottery street to Asda in Llanelli, simply because the car was going to fast to stop quickly. The poor woman suffered a cardiac arrest, and despite our best efforts, died in the ambulance before it could get to Glangwili

As I understand it there is no "blanket ban" and local authorities can administer a 30mph were  they think appropriate. There is no doubt however that 'technically' our streets are safer at 20mph, but as I stated in my opening intro..it will make little difference as people still do as they like.

Cars are 'Gods' in todays world are we are  afraid not attempt to step on the motorists shoes.
Back in Barbara Castle's day, she introduced the 70mph on motorways, and met the same outrage as the people who signed the recent petition. 
The metaphorical comparison, of course is of a blinkered dray horse plodding on blissful unaware of what is going on around it.
Until it affects them , specifically, if their child or elderly parent was killed or badly injured in a collision, by someone driving too fast, people  will shake their fist in protest that their "freedoms " have been appallingly infringed upon.
We are living in a rootless society devoid of morality and conviction. People will even block disable person access with their car, as has happened to my elderly  neighbour on a few occasions. A complete lack of thought , consideration or compassion

To digress, the law, is a joke when it comes to  offending linked to driving at speed 
A man recently killed 3 people, after driving furiously being well over the limit, and received just a 17 month jail sentence. How can that be fair ?
I have said for a long time that depending on the severity of offence, lifetime driving bans should be introduced for drink drivers

The Tories in the Senydd are also to be condemned. Andrew T Davis what  a scumbag (and big Boris fan) he is. Initially there was cross party consensus initially, when the 20mph limit was proposed, and trialled in eight different locations , going back some time. Since then Davies and his rag tag bunch of toe rag Tories have sniffed out a political opportunity and are now banging the drum in opposition to 20mph, telling lies about blanket bans.
Yes, its the same Tories who opposed the setting up of the NHS, the introduction of the minimum wage, and even devolution itself , and yet there they are banging the drum.

To conclude on a almost comical note ,apart from the fact its deadly serious.
We have been debating on here about the 20mph limits.
One of the thing that has amazed me recently that with the proliferation of electric scooters, how long is going to be before someone gets killed or injured on these things?
I am not of course referring to vespers/mopeds, but the type of scooter that as a child you used to propel with your foot.
Most of these are operated by children around our streets , without a helmet, and are incredibly dangerous, both for themselves  and pedestrians.
How can parents be so irresponsible to allow this, but if (god forbid) an accident happened then there would be a fuss.

Its just another example of the Laissez-Faire attitudes which prevail today





pretty sure mote than 150 000 people from the uk died in ww2 to be honest. Speed cameras will catch speeders not police on patrol. You be lucky to see any police out and about now tbh. A few more may help cut down on all these lunkheads driving like they are in  fornula 1 

Edited by RR1972 - 20 September 2023 at 2:16pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fscarlet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 September 2023 at 2:31pm
I think the main roads should stay at 30 & then the residential roads coming off the main roads should be down to 20mph.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roy munster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 September 2023 at 3:50pm
Originally posted by Fscarlet Fscarlet wrote:

I think the main roads should stay at 30 & then the residential roads coming off the main roads should be down to 20mph.
and marked properly

Petition has over 340,000 signatures now the biggest in Welsh history
drakefords response? we dont care were not relooking at it
ahh what a democrat he is Wink


Edited by roy munster - 21 September 2023 at 2:25pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Eastern outpost Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 September 2023 at 4:18pm
I never envisaged this debate when I asked my simple question about how it affected people getting to PyS from the usual access points - M4 and/or other main entry roads.

Whatever the rules are, there will always be folk who ignore the rules and are inconsiderate to everyone else whether on the road or pavements. While none of those people read Fever, we probably can all come up with a few folk of this type.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote greypower1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 September 2023 at 4:22pm
Originally posted by Fscarlet Fscarlet wrote:

I think the main roads should stay at 30 & then the residential roads coming off the main roads should be down to 20mph.

The problem with that idea is that the majority of main roads are also residential roads.
Keep the faith
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roy munster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 September 2023 at 4:32pm
Originally posted by Eastern outpost Eastern outpost wrote:

I never envisaged this debate when I asked my simple question about how it affected people getting to PyS from the usual access points - M4 and/or other main entry roads.

Whatever the rules are, there will always be folk who ignore the rules and are inconsiderate to everyone else whether on the road or pavements. While none of those people read Fever, we probably can all come up with a few folk of this type.

Statistics published by the Department for Transport shows an estimated 719,000 vehicles are being used despite their vehicle excise duty (VED) not being paid. This represents 1.8% of vehicles, up from 1.6% in 2019 when the total was 634,000.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scarletpimp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 September 2023 at 3:57am
To follow on from my last point of my last contribution regarding "Scooters".
Today, my wife and I were walking back from town up pottery street, when I could see a lad coming down Bigyn hill on one of these motorised scooters.
I am not sure what, if any braking power these contraptions have, but this was certainly going in excess of 20pmh, probably more than 30mph, probably aided by the steep hill.
He came to the junction of Ann st and clearly either could not or would not stop.
if any vehicle had been travelling up the Wern or Ann street, then he could easily have been killed or seriously injured.
As it was the lack and control and speed meant he careered across the road in to the door of the shop at the top of pottery street. Any elderly person coming out of the shop would have been at risk of injury.

Leave alone the 20mph limit and cars, I just cannot understand how this is happening and what about the legal responsibility the parents of these individuals, got if they cause an accident.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RR1972 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 September 2023 at 7:57am
Originally posted by greypower1 greypower1 wrote:

Originally posted by Fscarlet Fscarlet wrote:

I think the main roads should stay at 30 & then the residential roads coming off the main roads should be down to 20mph.

The problem with that idea is that the majority of main roads are also residential roads.
ok so if fatalties don’t fall what next 10 mph?, the reason there are more  deaths on residential roafs is because rhere are more residential roads than other roads in the uk. It’s not cos pf the speed limit  involved

Edited by RR1972 - 21 September 2023 at 8:03am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RR1972 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 September 2023 at 8:01am
Originally posted by scarletpimp scarletpimp wrote:

To follow on from my last point of my last contribution regarding "Scooters".
Today, my wife and I were walking back from town up pottery street, when I could see a lad coming down Bigyn hill on one of these motorised scooters.
I am not sure what, if any braking power these contraptions have, but this was certainly going in excess of 20pmh, probably more than 30mph, probably aided by the steep hill.
He came to the junction of Ann st and clearly either could not or would not stop.
if any vehicle had been travelling up the Wern or Ann street, then he could easily have been killed or seriously injured.
As it was the lack and control and speed meant he careered across the road in to the door of the shop at the top of pottery street. Any elderly person coming out of the shop would have been at risk of injury.

Leave alone the 20mph limit and cars, I just cannot understand how this is happening and what about the legal responsibility the parents of these individuals, got if they cause an accident.
i have no doubt a losd of these  scooter users all ovet the uk are selling drug or up to some other nefarious use.They are not insured can be modified to go faster, can’t be caught on foot and can go to parts of an atea cars cant follow. You should have to take a test and insure them if they are to be used on a general highway. It’s the same with these xl bullys a dog that was literally bred for fighting, why would joe public need/wamt one pf these?

Edited by RR1972 - 21 September 2023 at 8:01am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roy munster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 September 2023 at 1:32pm
Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

Originally posted by scarletpimp scarletpimp wrote:

To follow on from my last point of my last contribution regarding "Scooters".
Today, my wife and I were walking back from town up pottery street, when I could see a lad coming down Bigyn hill on one of these motorised scooters.
I am not sure what, if any braking power these contraptions have, but this was certainly going in excess of 20pmh, probably more than 30mph, probably aided by the steep hill.
He came to the junction of Ann st and clearly either could not or would not stop.
if any vehicle had been travelling up the Wern or Ann street, then he could easily have been killed or seriously injured.
As it was the lack and control and speed meant he careered across the road in to the door of the shop at the top of pottery street. Any elderly person coming out of the shop would have been at risk of injury.

Leave alone the 20mph limit and cars, I just cannot understand how this is happening and what about the legal responsibility the parents of these individuals, got if they cause an accident.
i have no doubt a losd of these  scooter users all ovet the uk are selling drug or up to some other nefarious use.They are not insured can be modified to go faster, can’t be caught on foot and can go to parts of an atea cars cant follow. You should have to take a test and insure them if they are to be used on a general highway. It’s the same with these xl bullys a dog that was literally bred for fighting, why would joe public need/wamt one pf these?

Undoubtedly Apparently only 1 in 10 drug dealers ges to jail
I havent double checked that but clearly the war on drugs never happened and our status quo policy of the govt providing the drugs and the police turning a blind eye to it all, is now set in stone and goes unquestioned by politicians and councillors

Apparently accepting its incurable unavoidable genetic disease is the only way to go and is termed compassionate. The idea of self control or helping to proactively dissuade people from this path in the first place is scoffed at by the so called experts. Is that compassinate? Funny Ive not seen them display the same compassion to communities ravaged and destroyed by drug dealers 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scarletpimp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 September 2023 at 1:59pm
Originally posted by roy munster roy munster wrote:

Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

Originally posted by scarletpimp scarletpimp wrote:

To follow on from my last point of my last contribution regarding "Scooters".
Today, my wife and I were walking back from town up pottery street, when I could see a lad coming down Bigyn hill on one of these motorised scooters.
I am not sure what, if any braking power these contraptions have, but this was certainly going in excess of 20pmh, probably more than 30mph, probably aided by the steep hill.
He came to the junction of Ann st and clearly either could not or would not stop.
if any vehicle had been travelling up the Wern or Ann street, then he could easily have been killed or seriously injured.
As it was the lack and control and speed meant he careered across the road in to the door of the shop at the top of pottery street. Any elderly person coming out of the shop would have been at risk of injury.

Leave alone the 20mph limit and cars, I just cannot understand how this is happening and what about the legal responsibility the parents of these individuals, got if they cause an accident.
i have no doubt a losd of these  scooter users all ovet the uk are selling drug or up to some other nefarious use.They are not insured can be modified to go faster, can’t be caught on foot and can go to parts of an atea cars cant follow. You should have to take a test and insure them if they are to be used on a general highway. It’s the same with these xl bullys a dog that was literally bred for fighting, why would joe public need/wamt one pf these?

Undoubtedly Apparently only 1 in 10 drug dealers ges to jail
I havent double checked that but clearly the war on drugs never happened and our status quo policy of the govt providing the drugs and the police turning a blind eye to it all, is now set in stone and goes unquestioned by politicians and councillors

Apparently accepting its incurable unavoidable genetic disease is the only way to go and is termed compassionate. The idea of self control or helping to proactively dissuade people from this path in the first place is scoffed at by the so called experts. Is that compassinate? Funny Ive not seen them display the same compassion to communities ravaged and destroyed by drug dealers 

I have not seen these scooters on display Roy, but they must ge available somewhere. RIDICULOUS. 
Another thing, many if the roadside curbs in and around  Central Llanelli,  are non existent.  I live next to just one fine example , and a fairly busy road.
Complained to counci, nothing done..presumably  no money .
Any limited protection,  you would get from a curg is negated.
We have two primary  schools and a secondary  school on our doorstep, and children  are regularly  walking home.
They would have no chance if a scooter mounted the pavement .
My wife has a f8rm of early onset dementia,  and ,bye way things are, I am always with her when we go out, because even though it can be quiet at times, it only raies a second of madness to witness an unfortunate  and potentially  danger accident. 
Spoke to police ahd they confirmed   children shouldn't be using them.
So where are their parents of tyese children?
Absent without leave, until a tragedy  occurs.
It worries me.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roy munster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 September 2023 at 2:22pm
Theyre great fun for the kids but with no regulation or rules its dangerous ........Theyre often on the wrong side of the road no lights on, often holding phones or drinks in their hand at the same time, it a tragedy waiting to happen tbh

Edited by roy munster - 21 September 2023 at 2:23pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote salmidach Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 September 2023 at 11:00am
Wales under Drakeford and Labour is fast becoming a nanny state

Refused to bypass the brynglas tunnels due to environmentalists complaining
banning food deals such as meal deals in supermarkets
20mph zones..

I'm just glad for once that I don't live in Wales.

Labour in Wales are like the Tories in Westminster, unfortunately though in Wales there's no party big enough or popular enough to remove them!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SA14 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 September 2023 at 1:07pm
Originally posted by roy munster roy munster wrote:

Originally posted by SA14 SA14 wrote:

Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

Originally posted by Raised By Peregos Raised By Peregos wrote:

"It's not it's pretty much all roads in built up areas" - Roy

Yes, of course it's built-up areas... that's the point. They are the dangerous roads for pedestrians, which this is predominantly aimed at protecting. Roads that don't really have pedestrians will be exempt. The limit is mostly to reduce pedestrian casualties... for you and RR, I don't know how you can look at those statistics and NOT see the amount of pedestrians hurt or killed on 30mph speed limit roads is VASTLY higher than any others.

I'm not raving about this change either, but the data does show that when you reduce speeds you reduce the impact of collisions and therefore reduce the most negative outcomes and it provide greater time for motorists to see pedestrians, and pedestrians to see motorists. 

ok ill bet you any money now we see more 20 mph roads we see more injuries and fatalties in 20 mph zones, the current stats are skewed due to the numbers . The reason more people are currently injured in 30 mph zones is becuse there a lot more 30 mph zones. Let’s see these stats in a years time

I’d love to hear why you think there’d be more fatalities on a 20mph road. 

Hilarious seeing the loonies signing a petition as if they’re gonna revert back to 30mph. 

Pretty disrespectful calling 160,000 people loons but to be expected of you

The reasons for more accidents and confusion with the new speed limits and unmarked speed limits have been well documented in this thread and elsewhere you conveniently ignore the facts. The complete confusion over the wrong speed signs putting 30mph signs in 20mph roads ....Added to the endless speed bumps, pot holes , wide pavements, central islands, one way streets, part one way streets more and more road works extra traffic lights , extra congestion, more cameras, more pressure on the cops to police it all, roads you can only drive down at certain times of the day , cutbacks on maintenance and relief roads , Higher pollution with cars in lower gears and tyre pollution from the endless braking.....

DPFs diesel particulate filters endlessly clogged up thrugh the endless stop starting  Do you know how much it costs to clean or replace a DPF>?? £800 to clean , to replace brand new £2780 ??? How many can afford that? etc All puts yet more pressure and distraction on drivers on all their varies types of vehicles...Isnt it hard enough to drive big trucks and buses already without all this extra pressure and confusion ....End result will be more people quitting these jobs. far slower supply of goods , services, essential supplies, foods, medication, productivity down....a £4.5 billion hit to the welsh economy (These are welsh labours own estimations so itll probably be greater) . 

You conveniently choose to ignore all of this which makes your opinion n the matter worthless.

The reasons you give for more accidents aren’t new??? So you didn’t really answer my question. It’s not gonna be changed back so I’d get used to it. It’s for the future anyway. The next generation of drivers will be used to it plus it’s gonna be all electric cars in the future. Dashcam being fitted Tuesday ready to catch anyone driving too close to me. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote reesytheexile Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 September 2023 at 3:57pm
What’s more concerning is that people sit at home voting on phones for something that has only been in force about 3-4 days not years. The reaction is incredibly OTT especially when the policy is based on care for safety. It needs a year to monitor surely and then review properly imo. In the interim period ,exceptions can be put to individual councils for consideration on the merits. I just don’t understand the knee jerk at all. Just my opinion of course 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scarletpimp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 September 2023 at 10:21pm
Originally posted by reesytheexile reesytheexile wrote:

What’s more concerning is that people sit at home voting on phones for something that has only been in force about 3-4 days not years. The reaction is incredibly OTT especially when the policy is based on care for safety. It needs a year to monitor surely and then review properly imo. In the interim period ,exceptions can be put to individual councils for consideration on the merits. I just don’t understand the knee jerk at all. Just my opinion of course 

Totally agree with Reesy and also SA15 above.
I would repeat  would I have said before.. my wife and I WALK around Llanelli a considerable amount . As a pedestrian  I am well aware of the speeds cars do in in an urban area,  whether they are near schools or not. We live in a 20 mph limit, and that was so, BEFORE the limit came into force. People take scant notice to be honest, which sums up the " do as I like society " we have become.
The majority of people do'nt walk anywhere,  just jump into their car, and consequently they have little idea whats its like to be a pedestrian .
This is half the problem with our society today, totally reliant on cars, 
,which is contributing hugely to Co2 emissions  & the destruction  of the natural world we love, wiping out species in the process. 
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