A certain tackle by Warburton

Righty-ho then refs, where do you stand on Sam Warburton's tackle?*

my take

salmidach wrote: my take in the letter of the law - YES in the interest of rugby - NO

Cheers for the pre-amble & build up Sal..
A directive to referees an clubs from head. IRB Referee Paddy O'Brien was issued in June 2009 that (& I will post the original doc when I'm on my PC.)
In it the IRB clarifies and expands Dangerous Tackles and the sanctions available to Refs.
In Summary
A - If a tackler lifts a player above the harizontal, then drives him to ground (spear tackle) - Red card.
B - If a tackler lifts a player and allows him to drop to ground without regard for player safety - Red Card
C - In all OTHER type dangerous tackles - Penalty or Yellow Card.
It then states that Referee & Citing Commissioners should NOT take into account Intent or Malice in applying this criteria.

My simplistic interpretation of this is as follows ... If a tackler lifts the ball carrier with his legs above the horizontal, be it accidently or deliberately, HE HAS THE RESPONSIBILITY TO RETURN THE PLAYER SAFELY TO GROUND.

The tackle how I BELIEVE Allain Rolland saw it,
1 Sam lifted Clerc (legs above horizontal)
2 Sam tipped Clerc (left shoulder raised above right)
3 Sam released Clerc (whilst Clercs' legs were still above the horizontal) and allowed to fall to ground.

In MY OPINION I believe the tackle fitted (without any doubt) into example "B" above, hence unfortunately IMO Rolland was correct.

Since the incident there have been calls that Rolland (French Father / Irish Mother) should NOT have refereed this match due to a conflict of interest... Although I don't believe this to be true, there may be enough in this to cause the IRB to look at future appointments of officials. I knew Rolland had been appointed this match last Sunday evening, so did Wales & France so both teams had enough time to submit their reservatios about the appointment, which they are entitled to do.

In the clear light of day & 24 hours later I'm still looking for a loophole IN LAW that says Rolland had a Yellow Card option..... Sorry bois.

Answer this then ...
Same tackle ..70th Ammanford v Bancyfelin .. 45 - 40 to Banc... Banc player drops Amman player .. Amman player stretchered off never to play again....
Red / Yellow or Warning
It is the 400% rise in serious neck & spinal injuries that made the IRB instigate this law ammendment. "TO ERRADICATE THIS TYPE OF DANGEROUS TACKLE FROM THE GAME."

Take the Warburton scenario another way ..

Same tackle, Sam gets Yellow Card ... Serves 10 minutes in bin ... Returns to play .. Later is faced by Clerc again whose "body movement" recreates a similar tackle this time as he drops to ground, his head impacts first (only a matter of mms difference) breaking his c-spine. Should Sam have been on the pitch ?
People call for a "warning" ! A yellow card is a stiff warning .. ! The LAW BOOK is the warning ” clearly states that the punishment for this type of tackle is a red card.
A similar directive came out regarding "Stamping" a few years ago .... Less life threatening but still dangerous .. Is there any situation where stamping should be allowed for the "feel of the game".
I was involved indirectly one Saturday night when a distraught Referee phoned me as a player had been tipped & dropped in the tackle, rendering him unable to move or feel his arms or legs ... This was in 2008 before the directive, the tackler in this case had just returned to the field after a 8th minute yellow card "striking" an opponent (this is a red card in its own right). The Referee issued a yellow as it was "only early" & didn't want to ruin the game and he didn't "really connect that well".
I saw that injured player at the Dragons game last season, although physically recovered, mentally he felt that he couldn't play again.

scarletman wrote: Cheers for the pre-amble & build up Sal.. A directive to referees an clubs from head. IRB Referee Paddy O'Brien was issued in June 2009 that (& I will post the original doc when I'm on my PC.) In it the IRB clarifies and expands Dangerous Tackles and the sanctions available to Refs. In Summary A - If a tackler lifts a player above the harizontal, then drives him to ground (spear tackle) - Red card. B - If a tackler lifts a player and allows him to drop to ground without regard for player safety - Red Card C - In all OTHER type dangerous tackles - Penalty or Yellow Card. It then states that Referee & Citing Commissioners should NOT take into account Intent or Malice in applying this criteria. My simplistic interpretation of this is as follows ... If a tackler lifts the ball carrier with his legs above the horizontal, be it accidently or deliberately, HE HAS THE RESPONSIBILITY TO RETURN THE PLAYER SAFELY TO GROUND. The tackle how I BELIEVE Allain Rolland saw it, 1 Sam lifted Clerc (legs above horizontal) 2 Sam tipped Clerc (left shoulder raised above right) 3 Sam released Clerc (whilst Clercs' legs were still above the horizontal) and allowed to fall to ground. In MY OPINION I believe the tackle fitted (without any doubt) into example "B" above, hence unfortunately IMO Rolland was correct. Since the incident there have been calls that Rolland (French Father / Irish Mother) should NOT have refereed this match due to a conflict of interest... Although I don't believe this to be true, there may be enough in this to cause the IRB to look at future appointments of officials. I knew Rolland had been appointed this match last Sunday evening, so did Wales & France so both teams had enough time to submit their reservatios about the appointment, which they are entitled to do. In the clear light of day & 24 hours later I'm still looking for a loophole IN LAW that says Rolland had a Yellow Card option..... Sorry bois.

Is this what you're refering to Scarletman??A player must not tackle (or try to tackle) an opponent above the line of the shoulders even if the tackle starts below the line of the shoulders. A tackle around the opponent’s neck or head is dangerous play.

A stiff-arm tackle is dangerous play. A player makes a stiff-arm tackle when using a stiff-arm to strike an opponent.

Edited by haydn_davies - 16 October 2011 at 5:18pm

This is the last time now I ever, ever speak about this cos I'm bored of it now, but I agree with the great Pienaar. I don't care what the letter of the law says cos if you reffed to the letter of the law every breakdown would be a penalty, every game would feature 14 against 13 or 12 against 11 after endless sending offs and sin binnings. It was clearly a penalty and probably a yellow but never a red. So it's goodnight from me and can we have last night's ref again?