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An issue with rugby in Wales

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hoppy View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hoppy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 November 2022 at 11:14pm
Think Rugby Pawb tomorrow night is showing Llandovery College v Coleg Sir Gar live on Facebook 
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Gate12 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gate12 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 November 2022 at 11:36pm
Originally posted by Realwest Realwest wrote:

I’m not sure what competitions the Schools play in now, but when I was in school ( I left school in 2000 ) we had the Lloyds TSB league where the school year 10 11 and 12 played in one team, it was extremely tough in your first year but a good way to introduce you to playing bigger tougher lads.

Surely the Schools must be playing regularly in some sort of league.

I know Rygbi Pawb does the college league but not everybody goes to College.

Is there a Scarlets cup for age groups for Schools or Clubs now ?



There's a cup/bowl/plate at every age group for club rugby but no league until youth (which doesn't have a consistent format).

School wise think it's pretty much just Dewar shield (u11 and u15).
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Wil Chips View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wil Chips Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 November 2022 at 5:09am
Originally posted by Gate12 Gate12 wrote:

In the simplest terms schoolboys wider squad is teachers recommendations then Scarlets 16's picked from the schoolboys squad and that's largely it going through to 18's, If you're in coleg sir gar or llandovery college might get a sniff if you've missed out previously.



That's about as hit and miss as you can get.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wil Chips Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 November 2022 at 5:40am
https://www.sarugby.co.za/media/q03hxfmw/strategic-transformation-development-plan-2030-cycle-1.pdf

SA have a 2030 road map....I'm not absolutely sure about some of it, but at least they have one!

Their EPD programme (Elite Player Development) is superb in fairness though.

All meshed in and joined up thinking with schools, colleges, academies etc...school boy players reviewed over a 5 year period by EPD accredited coaches.


I don't want to pitch this system as faultless...the 2 items of concern for me is the notable use of performance enhancing's supplements at school level in SA, as well as the player welfare issue ( HIA's) in such a competitive environment.

Edited by Wil Chips - 16 November 2022 at 5:55am
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Mr Ian View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mr Ian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 November 2022 at 6:37am
the same in Argentina...unfortunately the sensation is in Wales there isnt a prospective of the future of rugby...
I think, wales as new zealand system are suffering cause of they are the system with the less contamination with other experience or types of rugby cultures...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gate12 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 November 2022 at 8:20am
Originally posted by Wil Chips Wil Chips wrote:

Originally posted by Gate12 Gate12 wrote:

In the simplest terms schoolboys wider squad is teachers recommendations then Scarlets 16's picked from the schoolboys squad and that's largely it going through to 18's, If you're in coleg sir gar or llandovery college might get a sniff if you've missed out previously.



That's about as hit and miss as you can get.

Hindered further by the vastly different levels of interest shown in rugby by comp schools. It may be more consistent in other areas but the Carmarthenshire school's rugby approaches vary hugely.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RR1972 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 November 2022 at 9:47am
When i was in school each school could put a set number of pupils forward for a trial. If you wanted to put more forward you had to get permission. The district trials your club could send as many as they liked, college and 6th form a step too far education wise for me. So i can’t comment i take it most of the academy boys are in college?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 November 2022 at 10:05am
Going back to the early 70's I was in 6th form and was coached by an ex-Scarlet full back from Brynamman - John Elgar Williams. He recommended me to the Scarlets before  a bad ACL put paid to it. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gate12 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 November 2022 at 10:24am
Originally posted by Wil Chips Wil Chips wrote:

https://www.sarugby.co.za/media/q03hxfmw/strategic-transformation-development-plan-2030-cycle-1.pdf

SA have a 2030 road map....I'm not absolutely sure about some of it, but at least they have one!

Their EPD programme (Elite Player Development) is superb in fairness though.

All meshed in and joined up thinking with schools, colleges, academies etc...school boy players reviewed over a 5 year period by EPD accredited coaches.


I don't want to pitch this system as faultless...the 2 items of concern for me is the notable use of performance enhancing's supplements at school level in SA, as well as the player welfare issue ( HIA's) in such a competitive environment.

You'd think for a multitude of reasons getting a plan in place would be a lot easier in Wales yet we don't have any real visibility on the WRU's plans and how everything (school, college, club and academy) is aligned.

We won't agree with everything in the plan but it would nice to have a rough idea what they're thinking.


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ladram View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ladram Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 November 2022 at 10:47am
Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Going back to the early 70's I was in 6th form and was coached by an ex-Scarlet full back from Brynamman - John Elgar Williams. He recommended me to the Scarlets before  a bad ACL put paid to it. 
Go to quiz night with john every thursday absolute gentleman and his brother ellis wyn williams was a teacher in london and dave beasant,phil de freitas and another cricketer attended his funeral as they held him responsible for getting the equipment at the school and encouraging them to be what they became he played for london welsh i think peter jackson do a great piece on ellis after he died 3 brothers from a small mining cottage all had wales youth or schoolboys caps johns mind is going a little now but a lovely man(pretty sure he was centre with scarlets)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RR1972 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 November 2022 at 11:17am
Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Going back to the early 70's I was in 6th form and was coached by an ex-Scarlet full back from Brynamman - John Elgar Williams. He recommended me to the Scarlets before  a bad ACL put paid to it. 
 i had school boy
Trials my lack of ability let me down,Wink must be a gutter to cop such a bad injury so young, i had a game for the district played against dai weatherly he got a senior cap i think? Was a good player fast and he had enough to say for himself


Edited by RR1972 - 16 November 2022 at 11:20am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 November 2022 at 12:34pm
Originally posted by ladram ladram wrote:

Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Going back to the early 70's I was in 6th form and was coached by an ex-Scarlet full back from Brynamman - John Elgar Williams. He recommended me to the Scarlets before  a bad ACL put paid to it. 
Go to quiz night with john every thursday absolute gentleman and his brother ellis wyn williams was a teacher in london and dave beasant,phil de freitas and another cricketer attended his funeral as they held him responsible for getting the equipment at the school and encouraging them to be what they became he played for london welsh i think peter jackson do a great piece on ellis after he died 3 brothers from a small mining cottage all had wales youth or schoolboys caps johns mind is going a little now but a lovely man(pretty sure he was centre with scarlets)

I thought it was full back but I stand corrected. John is a lovely guy please give him my very best regards. Didn't know Ellis Wyn had passed away. I will share a lovely story with you about John Elgar & Ellis Wyn. Ellis played cricket for Amman Valley a few years before me. We used to play 25 overs a side. One Monday morning it was announced that i had done pretty well the previous Saturday being one of few who had scored more than  50 in 25 overs. To stop my head expanding too far John Elgar sidelined me later & told me to keep practising and I might emulate Ellis Wyn who had scored a century!!!! Soon brought me down to earth. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gate12 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 November 2022 at 2:05pm
There's 11 college/6th form leagues in Wales (the national league plus 10 regional leagues). It would be interesting to see how many of the colleges are represented in the regional squads from the national league compared to the rest and how many aren't associated with any college.

As Wil alluded to there'll be many discussions between parents and kids whether they should pick the best educational option or best rugby option, what we don't want is those picking the best educational or career option's rugby chances being significantly reduced.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RR1972 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 November 2022 at 5:21pm
I’d be shocked if there are 11 school leauges playing on a regular basis in all of wales let alone 6th form and college rugby. Unless the second 3rds etc in the bigger colleges have their own leagues
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hoppy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 November 2022 at 8:02pm
Anybody watching local derby between Llandovery college and Coleg Sir Gar 

Llandovery 3 Coleg Sir Gar 12
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hoppy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 November 2022 at 8:58pm
29_10 Coleg Sir Gar Full Time 
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