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An issue with rugby in Wales

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Gate12 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gate12 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 November 2022 at 9:45pm
Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

I’d be shocked if there are 11 school leauges playing on a regular basis in all of wales let alone 6th form and college rugby. Unless the second 3rds etc in the bigger colleges have their own leagues

Take a look at the youth rugby section on All Wales Sport website
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Mugwuffin View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mugwuffin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 November 2022 at 12:01am
This is the best Coleg Sir Gâr side for a good few seasons. They’ve won 9 out of 10 in the Colleges League and beat Millfield at the start of the season. 

They don’t seem to have any massive units, but have good passing skills and some pacy players in the backs and forwards. It’ll be interesting to see if this translates to a good Scarlets U18s side next year. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fscarlet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 November 2022 at 6:54am
Originally posted by Mugwuffin Mugwuffin wrote:

This is the best Coleg Sir Gâr side for a good few seasons. They’ve won 9 out of 10 in the Colleges League and beat Millfield at the start of the season. 

They don’t seem to have any massive units, but have good passing skills and some pacy players in the backs and forwards. It’ll be interesting to see if this translates to a good Scarlets U18s side next year. 

The trouble is that if they aren’t part of the scarlets academy now, they more than likely won’t be next year. As someone mentioned above, if you’re there at U16 then you’re pretty set. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RR1972 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 November 2022 at 8:42am
Originally posted by Gate12 Gate12 wrote:

Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

I’d be shocked if there are 11 school leauges playing on a regular basis in all of wales let alone 6th form and college rugby. Unless the second 3rds etc in the bigger colleges have their own leagues

Take a look at the youth rugby section on All Wales Sport website
checking it out looks like your right
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gate12 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 November 2022 at 8:52am
Originally posted by Fscarlet Fscarlet wrote:

Originally posted by Mugwuffin Mugwuffin wrote:

This is the best Coleg Sir Gâr side for a good few seasons. They’ve won 9 out of 10 in the Colleges League and beat Millfield at the start of the season. 

They don’t seem to have any massive units, but have good passing skills and some pacy players in the backs and forwards. It’ll be interesting to see if this translates to a good Scarlets U18s side next year. 

The trouble is that if they aren’t part of the scarlets academy now, they more than likely won’t be next year. As someone mentioned above, if you’re there at U16 then you’re pretty set. 

I'd guess if you're in Coleg Sir Gar or Llandovery you'll be ok because of the coaching links (and players are generally nudged towards there), it's all the players who weren't identified at 16 who are in other colleges or working that are the risk of being missed.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mugwuffin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 November 2022 at 9:38am
Originally posted by Fscarlet Fscarlet wrote:

Originally posted by Mugwuffin Mugwuffin wrote:

This is the best Coleg Sir Gâr side for a good few seasons. They’ve won 9 out of 10 in the Colleges League and beat Millfield at the start of the season. 

They don’t seem to have any massive units, but have good passing skills and some pacy players in the backs and forwards. It’ll be interesting to see if this translates to a good Scarlets U18s side next year. 

The trouble is that if they aren’t part of the scarlets academy now, they more than likely won’t be next year. As someone mentioned above, if you’re there at U16 then you’re pretty set. 
I think Euros Evans, the Head Coach of Coleg Sir Gar, is also the Head Coach of the Scarlets U18s and Llandovery RFC in the Welsh Premiership. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mugwuffin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 November 2022 at 9:49am
Originally posted by Wil Chips Wil Chips wrote:

I was on a staff outing on the Kenya coast at the weekend...

In 2019 he said they lost over twenty talented 16 year olds to other country academies/pathways, who were blatantly coming to to schools and U16 tournaments to harvest the talent around.
France being the most prominent ( took 13 that year), but other countries included Ireland, Japan, England and Scotland with one or two each.

They were offered terrific terms in comparison to what the SA system could offer, and of course the offer was guaranteed whereas the SA system was oversubscribed.
I remember Graham Henry suggesting that the WRU do this when he came over to coach Wales and people were up in arms. 

Newport went ahead and brought Hal Luscombe over, but I think he was the only one. 


Edited by Mugwuffin - 17 November 2022 at 9:50am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wil Chips Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 November 2022 at 5:22pm
Originally posted by Gate12 Gate12 wrote:

Originally posted by Fscarlet Fscarlet wrote:

Originally posted by Mugwuffin Mugwuffin wrote:

This is the best Coleg Sir Gâr side for a good few seasons. They’ve won 9 out of 10 in the Colleges League and beat Millfield at the start of the season. 

They don’t seem to have any massive units, but have good passing skills and some pacy players in the backs and forwards. It’ll be interesting to see if this translates to a good Scarlets U18s side next year. 


The trouble is that if they aren’t part of the scarlets academy now, they more than likely won’t be next year. As someone mentioned above, if you’re there at U16 then you’re pretty set. 


I'd guess if you're in Coleg Sir Gar or Llandovery you'll be ok because of the coaching links (and players are generally nudged towards there), it's all the players who weren't identified at 16 who are in other colleges or working that are the risk of being missed.


It's imperfect at best. I'd always want to see a sports governing body have equality of opportunity at it's core...even if the outcome isn't exact.

I'd also like to see the Academy systems be given some clear metrics.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roy munster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 November 2022 at 7:19pm
There must be a few major leaks in the system to explain the drastic drop in the talent belt 
ROYMOND MUNTER MBE (FOR SERVICES TO THE COMBOVER)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scarletabroad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 November 2022 at 8:05am
Originally posted by Gate12 Gate12 wrote:

It's hard to criticise the approach from the WRU because we don't know what it is.

Are clubs the main route, or schools, or a mix?
Do we want high volumes in full rugby or are we happy with a proportion in alternative game formats (7's, 10's, touch)?
What's our participation target?
How do we identify late developers? Do we even want to?
Should the regions have autonomy in their own area for comps and season structures? Should the schools/colleges lead or WRU?
Is the exiles programme the answer? Should we be using this resource within Wales?
etc.
etc.

Until the WRU tell us what they're trying to do it's hard to say how well they're doing it or whether we agree with the approach.

The exile programme in my experience does work giving Welsh qualified players a window to playing for the Regions and Wales they would never have. To compare the packages on offer which was mentioned previously is on a sliding scale depending on position, potential, demand etc. The package my son was offered far outweighed the English offer and my son chose through personal choice to come to Wales. So the Exile programme is effective especially by comparison to a lot of the English prem teams. As for the Scarlets academy from what I have seen and my experience the support element is very good the admin is on a par with the rest of the club. The allowance of players to play for a club I can understand both sides. The region and school have made an investment and as an example a player in my son's team got injured playing for his club and they lost him for 8 weeks. Also, there is the welfare/burn out of the players. At the college/region they train and play almost every day except Sunday. But I understand that the club who coached/mentored the player want to show that off and promote the possibility/pathway for others.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gate12 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 November 2022 at 9:59am
Yeah I'd agree that there's been some definite success through the exiles programme, I was asking the question more from a resource v results perspective, i.e. if we're limited on resource would the people we're using on identifying and recruiting the exiles be better used within Wales identifying the talent on our doorstep.

I've no idea what the answer to my question is, it's just one of the questions we should be asking ourselves and again ties in with what is the WRU's overall vision and plan.

Altering the structure of a season for academy rugby would go a long way to reducing clashes between clubs and college/academy, as would good lines of communication between all the parties.

It's not only the playing side we need to factor in here too, it's the impact of decisions on their families and friends, Welsh rugby could be putting off a hoard of supporters purely through poor visibility and communication with what should be the most easy to access fans out there.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Why Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 November 2022 at 10:32am
The pressure on young children is horrendous, what happened to playing for the love of the game. 

The talented will come through and will have had a great time playing with their mates and be hungry for more.

They need some guidance I agree but get the kids to love the game first so they want to carry on playing no matter what standard they at. 

To endeavour to get to the next level has caused a lot of problems with steroids in youngsters which leads to long term health risks. 

Burn out at a young age must account for some of the drop off and being told you are crap at a young age will not help keeping people in the game. 




She asks why i still can't answer. I guess its in the blood.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roy munster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 November 2022 at 10:41am
Aardie savea looked like a man truly enjoying , appreciating and loving playing the game. Ive not seen that joy in a welsh player since ickle shane retired , though I see it in abundance with welsh football players. 

Edited by roy munster - 18 November 2022 at 10:42am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gate12 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 November 2022 at 10:49am
Yep, the basic aim should be to just be able to enjoy playing the game with your mates at a vibrant club with family and friends around and trust that if you're good enough you'll get picked up.

And if there's ever a decision between playing or training then playing should always win.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wil Chips Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 November 2022 at 5:28pm
About 11 of the current Wales squad of 34 are products of other countries development pathways, with a few more that were exited by their original region (only to move on and make it good).

All except a small handful 9less than 5) of the Irish team are locally produced and locally developed, with hardly any Non Irish players in their set up.

It's good to hear the exile programme has a positive image, but I still can't wrap my ahead around the talent that we must have in Wales, that, by virtue of how we operate, must be missing out.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scarletabroad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 November 2022 at 6:10pm
Originally posted by Gate12 Gate12 wrote:

Yeah I'd agree that there's been some definite success through the exiles programme, I was asking the question more from a resource v results perspective, i.e. if we're limited on resource would the people we're using on identifying and recruiting the exiles be better used within Wales identifying the talent on our doorstep.

I've no idea what the answer to my question is, it's just one of the questions we should be asking ourselves and again ties in with what is the WRU's overall vision and plan.

Altering the structure of a season for academy rugby would go a long way to reducing clashes between clubs and college/academy, as would good lines of communication between all the parties.

It's not only the playing side we need to factor in here too, it's the impact of decisions on their families and friends, Welsh rugby could be putting off a hoard of supporters purely through poor visibility and communication with what should be the most easy to access fans out there.

Resource for exiles is one bloke Gareth Davies, he has people help in the exile camps which happen twice a year. When they come to Wales for a camp they use the academy coaches.
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