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And on to France

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fscarlet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 March 2021 at 10:31am
Originally posted by dr_martinov dr_martinov wrote:

It's still a mixture of pride, tears and questions today. Got to learn from this, address the issues that went wrong and improve ourselves. Matt Dawson mentions it will "haunt Wales for years" and also refers back to his experience of England being denied a Grand Slam in 1999. England improved themselves and of course ended up winning the World Cup four years later. Even thinking back to how they used Mike Catt in that quarter against us you knew they had learnt how to make sure they closed out games or didn't get into the same situation in the first place. You can either just dwell in despair about the could have beens or let it motivate you. We have done so well in this tournament and won 2 out of 3 of the really close games plus put a poor England to bed in a record win, albeit assisted by two very fortunate try decisions, but are not the finished article yet. I'm still absolutely gutted about saturday but we can still win the championship. 

I agree Doc, this hopefully will be the makings of this team. Over the last few years we tend to come back into matches in the last quarter or so but we were leading this time & almost saw it out. We aren't the complete article yet, we aren't streetwise enough at 9, Cawdors kick away against Ireland & Tomos not trying to knock the ball on in the last minute demonstrate this. However we are in a much better place that we were on the opening weekend. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dyniol53 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 March 2021 at 10:43am
Originally posted by Fscarlet Fscarlet wrote:

[QUOTE=dr_martinov]We aren't the complete article yet, we aren't streetwise enough at 9, Cawdors kick away against Ireland & Tomos not trying to knock the ball on in the last minute demonstrate this. Howeverp we are in a much better place that we were on the opening weekend. 

What is this Tomos knock on referring to? I don’t understand.

Completely agree about discipline in last 5 mins closing a game out. Both vs Ireland (Cawdor’s kick), vs Scotland (Tompkins gave a penalty away instead of releasing the ball on Scotland’s 5 meter) and then on Saturday where there was a comedy of errors in the last 10.

I think Dawson is right this will haunt us, really will. But this ending could have happened in the Ireland or Scotland game too and we’re “lucky” that it only happened in the last game rather than all 3.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fscarlet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 March 2021 at 10:51am
Originally posted by dyniol53 dyniol53 wrote:

Originally posted by Fscarlet Fscarlet wrote:

[QUOTE=dr_martinov]We aren't the complete article yet, we aren't streetwise enough at 9, Cawdors kick away against Ireland & Tomos not trying to knock the ball on in the last minute demonstrate this. Howeverp we are in a much better place that we were on the opening weekend. 

What is this Tomos knock on referring to? I don’t understand.

Completely agree about discipline in last 5 mins closing a game out. Both vs Ireland (Cawdor’s kick), vs Scotland (Tompkins gave a penalty away instead of releasing the ball on Scotland’s 5 meter) and then on Saturday where there was a comedy of errors in the last 10.

I think Dawson is right this will haunt us, really will. But this ending could have happened in the Ireland or Scotland game too and we’re “lucky” that it only happened in the last game rather than all 3.

With 78 on the clock, France spilled the ball forward & we had a knock on advantage. Tomos looked at the ref as if he was asking for the scrum but I don't know if he asked for it. He could have 'dropped' the ball when he picked it up & we would have had the scrum.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jones2004 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 March 2021 at 10:52am
Originally posted by dyniol53 dyniol53 wrote:

Originally posted by Fscarlet Fscarlet wrote:

[QUOTE=dr_martinov]We aren't the complete article yet, we aren't streetwise enough at 9, Cawdors kick away against Ireland & Tomos not trying to knock the ball on in the last minute demonstrate this. Howeverp we are in a much better place that we were on the opening weekend. 

What is this Tomos knock on referring to? I don’t understand.

Completely agree about discipline in last 5 mins closing a game out. Both vs Ireland (Cawdor’s kick), vs Scotland (Tompkins gave a penalty away instead of releasing the ball on Scotland’s 5 meter) and then on Saturday where there was a comedy of errors in the last 10.

I think Dawson is right this will haunt us, really will. But this ending could have happened in the Ireland or Scotland game too and we’re “lucky” that it only happened in the last game rather than all 3.
With about two minutes to go we had a knock on advantage and the idea is that we should’ve either asked the ref for the scrum or Tomos Williams should’ve ‘accidentally’ knocked it on. That would’ve meant we could’ve taken time to set a scrum with our put in rather than go through the pick and goes which would’ve substantially reduced our chances of conceding a penalty. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dr_martinov Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 March 2021 at 10:54am
Originally posted by dyniol53 dyniol53 wrote:

Originally posted by Fscarlet Fscarlet wrote:

[QUOTE=dr_martinov]We aren't the complete article yet, we aren't streetwise enough at 9, Cawdors kick away against Ireland & Tomos not trying to knock the ball on in the last minute demonstrate this. Howeverp we are in a much better place that we were on the opening weekend. 

What is this Tomos knock on referring to? I don’t understand.

Completely agree about discipline in last 5 mins closing a game out. Both vs Ireland (Cawdor’s kick), vs Scotland (Tompkins gave a penalty away instead of releasing the ball on Scotland’s 5 meter) and then on Saturday where there was a comedy of errors in the last 10.

I think Dawson is right this will haunt us, really will. But this ending could have happened in the Ireland or Scotland game too and we’re “lucky” that it only happened in the last game rather than all 3.

Yes, fair point. I suppose we could say we didn't learn those lessons against Ireland and Scotland you mention and France were a far more clinical side. They still won the game at the end of the day, forced the errors from us and then took their chance. Plenty to think about and look at.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dyniol53 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 March 2021 at 11:18am
Needless to say the online abuse towards Sanjay is ridiculous. One of my favourite ever players, one of the few I’d say that would’ve comfortably played for Wales in any era, he’s that talented.

Hate to bring it back to referee decisions but his penalty and yellow card weren’t either in my opinion. He’s back on his feet and the ball is out when he tackles DuPont. At worst is a knock on in the tackle. Huge decision that and I think one where Luke Pearce had got caught up in the moment.

Liam had an excellent tournament.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 March 2021 at 12:11pm
Originally posted by dyniol53 dyniol53 wrote:

Needless to say the online abuse towards Sanjay is ridiculous. One of my favourite ever players, one of the few I’d say that would’ve comfortably played for Wales in any era, he’s that talented.

Hate to bring it back to referee decisions but his penalty and yellow card weren’t either in my opinion. He’s back on his feet and the ball is out when he tackles DuPont. At worst is a knock on in the tackle. Huge decision that and I think one where Luke Pearce had got caught up in the moment.

Liam had an excellent tournament.

Online abuse of Liam is utter nonsense. The squad to a man deserve huge credit not abuse. Excellent tournament for me is a bit over the top. Think Liam may have struggled to get the 15 shirt off JPR but I take your point about him being a top top player. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fscarlet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 March 2021 at 12:16pm
Me & the Mrs were talking about this last night when Scrum V mentioned it & I can't see for the life of me why people post such hateful messages online. We're all rugby fans & will have slated a player when we're watching down the club, but to go out of your way & post that online is beyond. 

Don't post something online to someone if you wouldn't say it to their face.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RR1972 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 March 2021 at 12:25pm
if sheedy kicks it dead, liam doesn't even have to get involved. It was a 50/50 call but did seem more of a delibarete knock on than anything else
 
disgusting abuse and the culprits should be banned from social media, 
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roy munster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 March 2021 at 12:42pm
Originally posted by Jones2004 Jones2004 wrote:

Originally posted by dyniol53 dyniol53 wrote:

Originally posted by Fscarlet Fscarlet wrote:

[QUOTE=dr_martinov]We aren't the complete article yet, we aren't streetwise enough at 9, Cawdors kick away against Ireland & Tomos not trying to knock the ball on in the last minute demonstrate this. Howeverp we are in a much better place that we were on the opening weekend. 

What is this Tomos knock on referring to? I don’t understand.

Completely agree about discipline in last 5 mins closing a game out. Both vs Ireland (Cawdor’s kick), vs Scotland (Tompkins gave a penalty away instead of releasing the ball on Scotland’s 5 meter) and then on Saturday where there was a comedy of errors in the last 10.

I think Dawson is right this will haunt us, really will. But this ending could have happened in the Ireland or Scotland game too and we’re “lucky” that it only happened in the last game rather than all 3.
With about two minutes to go we had a knock on advantage and the idea is that we should’ve either asked the ref for the scrum or Tomos Williams should’ve ‘accidentally’ knocked it on. That would’ve meant we could’ve taken time to set a scrum with our put in rather than go through the pick and goes which would’ve substantially reduced our chances of conceding a penalty. 

Spot on observation. Take the scrum.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote greypower1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 March 2021 at 1:56pm
Originally posted by Fscarlet Fscarlet wrote:

Me & the Mrs were talking about this last night when Scrum V mentioned it & I can't see for the life of me why people post such hateful messages online. We're all rugby fans & will have slated a player when we're watching down the club, but to go out of your way & post that online is beyond. 

Don't post something online to someone if you wouldn't say it to their face.

Did the referee actually call "advantage over" after the knock on?  We hadn't made any ground with the drives before he penalised us.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dr_martinov Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 March 2021 at 2:01pm
Think this is making me feel worse now, that last 10 minutes just wasn't smart play by several players. Ah well, hopefully we will learn from this. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sosban89 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 March 2021 at 2:02pm
Originally posted by dr_martinov dr_martinov wrote:

Think this is making me feel worse now, that last 10 minutes just wasn't smart play by several players. Ah well, hopefully we will learn from this. 

Very similar to the last 10 versus south africa in the semi final. In a good position and then really poor decisions lost us.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fscarlet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 March 2021 at 2:03pm
Originally posted by greypower1 greypower1 wrote:

Originally posted by Fscarlet Fscarlet wrote:

Me & the Mrs were talking about this last night when Scrum V mentioned it & I can't see for the life of me why people post such hateful messages online. We're all rugby fans & will have slated a player when we're watching down the club, but to go out of your way & post that online is beyond. 

Don't post something online to someone if you wouldn't say it to their face.

Did the referee actually call "advantage over" after the knock on?  We hadn't made any ground with the drives before he penalised us.

I'm not sure but I think we had 3 or 4 phases before the penalty.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dyniol53 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 March 2021 at 3:22pm
Originally posted by dr_martinov dr_martinov wrote:

Think this is making me feel worse now, that last 10 minutes just wasn't smart play by several players. Ah well, hopefully we will learn from this. 

Yep it’s brutal. There’s so many moments that could’ve secured the Grand slam. 10 to 15 different individual decisions by Welsh players that could’ve won it. That’s why is so frustrating
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roy munster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 March 2021 at 3:56pm
The top few mistakes that we could try and look at again and learn from....feel free to add any or amend any..

1) cory hill seal off with 60 seconds left
2) liam diving even though he may or may not have been legal he made hiself an easy target for the refs card
3) tomos not simply taking the scrum in the last few minutes instead of playing on, a few reset scrums would have run down the clock
4) sheedy not kicking to touch or even pasisng and allowing the other player to clear much further
5) faletau yellow, would he have been better off stating onside even if it cost a try
6) 27 - 20 58 minutes 1 man advantage should we have stayed down there taken the scrum / lineout and driven home our 1 man advantage and also stopped them getting back into our territory
7) cawdors left foot clearance for their 2nd try by dupont was a shocker
etc
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