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Wil Chips View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wil Chips Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 September 2021 at 6:14am
'Time to take the call on Cubby/time is up/time is running out etc' reflects at best an insensitive position, but I guess that's a fan's prerogative.

However a player has been effectively injured at work. With long term concussion related issues high on the agenda right now, including litigation, any club has to demonstrate absolute due diligence in the way it handles players suffering from this awful condition.

Or of course you could just kick them out at the end of their contract and see how that plays out.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fscarlet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 September 2021 at 6:30am
I wonder what our reaction would be if the Ospreys kicked a player out of the club under the same circumstances would be…
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dic Penderyn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 September 2021 at 8:17am
Spot on re.litigation Mr Chips.
Two closing observations:
I have avoided  mention of any individual and have commented only in general terms on the retention/release procedure regarding players incapacitated for a long period..
What the Ospreys choose to do is irrelevant,frankly.Years ago we "kicked out"Gavin Thomas,and Dafydd James-both controversial moves at the time.What I found most distasteful was the fact that the club chose to act differently in relation to another playerin similar circumstances,namely Dafydd Jones. 
The central irony in this thread is the fact that the previous management saw fit to release a player with a bad injury record,only for our new coaches to have to select him in the first game of the new season ,largely because of. long-term injury problems amongst the retained players.
Unfortunately I fear that Peel will have to contend with the results of poor decisions made by the previous clowns for some time to come-2/3 seasons I reckon.


Edited by Dic Penderyn - 07 September 2021 at 8:33am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RR1972 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 September 2021 at 10:06am
It’s one thing not renewing a players contract who is injured and has been for a long time. It’s another thing to terminate a players contrAct citing the 26 week clause especially as we haven’t done it to other players. Is cubby in the welsh 38 man group of contracted players?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote supertaf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 September 2021 at 10:18am
Originally posted by Wil Chips Wil Chips wrote:

'Time to take the call on Cubby/time is up/time is running out etc' reflects at best an insensitive position, but I guess that's a fan's prerogative.

However a player has been effectively injured at work. With long term concussion related issues high on the agenda right now, including litigation, any club has to demonstrate absolute due diligence in the way it handles players suffering from this awful condition.

Or of course you could just kick them out at the end of their contract and see how that plays out.

Wil, its not often I disagree but on this we have to. Your first line misses the point completely. NO ONE wants to see Cubby go, he's a star player. However you need to take the emotion out of it and think what is best for the player? How would we feel if in 20 years time he has dementia? The club is clearly performing due diligence and if the doctors recommendation is retirement to safeguard his future then so be it even if the player wants to carry on. My question is simply, at what point is it declared unsafe to return to such a high intensity position as 7? 
Scarlets - Suppliers of fine rugby since 1872
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scarletsbeno1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 September 2021 at 11:12am
poor look from the club if we cut ties, in the era of player welfare.
If as believed WRU are covering his wages following injury then I dont see why people are whining. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote supertaf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 September 2021 at 12:52pm
Originally posted by scarletsbeno1 scarletsbeno1 wrote:

poor look from the club if we cut ties, in the era of player welfare.
If as believed WRU are covering his wages following injury then I dont see why people are whining. 

No one is looking to cut ties, not sure where that is coming from. In fact the point made was that we DONT want another Daf James/Gav Thomas scenario. Its player welfare that is the question.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 September 2021 at 1:08pm
I am pretty sure that player welfare is at the forefront of every decision at PYS. Players are entitled to some privacy with regard to their injury status. Cubby appears to be latest to suffer long standing symptoms which, as explained, could crop up at various stages of his return to play protocols. All involved I am sure will be working with his best interests in mind - enough said I think. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tony Clifton Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 September 2021 at 3:48pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scarletnut Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 September 2021 at 4:25pm
Originally posted by Tony Clifton Tony Clifton wrote:

Coombs had some harsh words for Dragons over his treatment after injury: https://www.bbc.com/sport/rugby-union/38389160


The Cosgrove situation in particular was an absolute disgrace. Poor guy 
I still wake up late at night and think of what might have been when tim stimpson hit that jammy penalty1
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Seagultaf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 September 2021 at 4:31pm
If he was injured playing for Wales, which I think he was, then I believe the WRU cover his wages until he is fit to play or the end of his contract.
If this is the case there is no cost to the Scarlets at the moment.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scarletsbeno1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 September 2021 at 5:00pm
Originally posted by scarletnut scarletnut wrote:

Originally posted by Tony Clifton Tony Clifton wrote:

Coombs had some harsh words for Dragons over his treatment after injury: https://www.bbc.com/sport/rugby-union/38389160


The Cosgrove situation in particular was an absolute disgrace. Poor guy 

Aye Dragons wouldn't even arrange him transport to the hospital when he couldn't see out of his one eye. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wasp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 September 2021 at 5:22pm
Originally posted by supertaf supertaf wrote:

Originally posted by Wil Chips Wil Chips wrote:

'Time to take the call on Cubby/time is up/time is running out etc' reflects at best an insensitive position, but I guess that's a fan's prerogative.

However a player has been effectively injured at work. With long term concussion related issues high on the agenda right now, including litigation, any club has to demonstrate absolute due diligence in the way it handles players suffering from this awful condition.

Or of course you could just kick them out at the end of their contract and see how that plays out.

Wil, its not often I disagree but on this we have to. Your first line misses the point completely. NO ONE wants to see Cubby go, he's a star player. However you need to take the emotion out of it and think what is best for the player? How would we feel if in 20 years time he has dementia? The club is clearly performing due diligence and if the doctors recommendation is retirement to safeguard his future then so be it even if the player wants to carry on. My question is simply, at what point is it declared unsafe to return to such a high intensity position as 7? 
Two sides of the same coin. The decision can only be a medical one really, unless Cubby decides he's had enough. The guy was a big part of our success under Pivac. I'm torn, I really want to see him tearing up the Parc, but obviously not at the cost of his health.

Awful situation
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Wil Chips View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote Wil Chips Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 September 2021 at 6:05pm
Originally posted by supertaf supertaf wrote:

Originally posted by Wil Chips Wil Chips wrote:

'Time to take the call on Cubby/time is up/time is running out etc' reflects at best an insensitive position, but I guess that's a fan's prerogative.

However a player has been effectively injured at work. With long term concussion related issues high on the agenda right now, including litigation, any club has to demonstrate absolute due diligence in the way it handles players suffering from this awful condition.

Or of course you could just kick them out at the end of their contract and see how that plays out.


Wil, its not often I disagree but on this we have to. Your first line misses the point completely. NO ONE wants to see Cubby go, he's a star player. However you need to take the emotion out of it and think what is best for the player? How would we feel if in 20 years time he has dementia? The club is clearly performing due diligence and if the doctors recommendation is retirement to safeguard his future then so be it even if the player wants to carry on. My question is simply, at what point is it declared unsafe to return to such a high intensity position as 7? 


I was just paraphrasing some comments from this thread and others related to Cubby.

But you are right, I am more invested in this (and Cubby himself) than maybe the average poster, and that slants my view a bit.

You're last question is the most pertinent. Right now I think the Scarlets are doing it absolutely correctly and giving the player every chance to recover.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bert Scarlet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 September 2021 at 7:57pm
Originally posted by Wil Chips Wil Chips wrote:

Your talking about return to play protocols in general there I think.
I’m linking my comments in reply to Cubby’s specific case. There’s no time limit or time constraint. He will play when totally symptom free.


My understanding is that the GRTP is applicable to all cases.  I don't have any insight to Cubby's particular case but the protocol includes this paragraph,

"Recurrent or multiple concussions

Players with a history of two or more concussions within the past year maybe at greater risk of further brain injury and slower recovery and should seek medical attention from practitioners experienced in concussion management before return to play.

In addition to a history of multiple concussions, players with unusual presentations or prolonged recovery should be assessed and managed by health care providers with experience in sports-related concussions."

What sometimes happens (and we had a case of this at Worcester) is that a player who has suffered a concussion gets to a certain stage in the GRTP and keeps experiencing symptoms at the level.  Each time they experience symptoms I believe that they are supposed to drop back a level, for a slightly longer period, before trying to progress again.

Where they keep struggling at a particular point, or if they have had multiple concussions, a concussion specialist is brought in, who will do brain scans and more in depth testing.

At that point, the specialist will take over the management of the case but my understanding is that the player will still have to go through the same steps in the GRTP, it will just be that the specialist will decide when the player should progress to the next level.

I guess this is what has happened with Cubby - his care is being managed by a specialist, either because of previous concussions and/or he is experiencing recurrent symptoms at a particular stage of the GRTP.

You are right to say that Cubby will play when he is totally symptom free, but that should be the case with any player under the GRTP.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wil Chips Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 September 2021 at 6:11am
Lezana on the bench for the All Blacks game this weekend.
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