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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fscarlet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 March 2021 at 3:32pm
Originally posted by Mrfwon Mrfwon wrote:

Originally posted by dyniol53 dyniol53 wrote:

Since the pandemic there have been lots of rugby commentators saying the game is becoming boring - too much kicking, too many big blokes running directly into other big blokes, scrums taking too long, too many mauls, the caterpillar ruck, Exeter pick and going from 5m out even when there’s an overlap outside etc

I’m wondering what fans on this forum think is the actual problem and what changes (if any) the law-makers should amend to create a more entertaining game

Run everything, ban kicking LOLLOLLOLStarStarStar

As a paid up member of the front row union, I object!!!LOLLOLLOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote reesytheexile Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 March 2021 at 4:59pm
Originally posted by Fscarlet Fscarlet wrote:

Originally posted by Mrfwon Mrfwon wrote:

Originally posted by dyniol53 dyniol53 wrote:

Since the pandemic there have been lots of rugby commentators saying the game is becoming boring - too much kicking, too many big blokes running directly into other big blokes, scrums taking too long, too many mauls, the caterpillar ruck, Exeter pick and going from 5m out even when there’s an overlap outside etc

I’m wondering what fans on this forum think is the actual problem and what changes (if any) the law-makers should amend to create a more entertaining game

Run everything, ban kicking LOLLOLLOLStarStarStar

As a paid up member of the front row union, I object!!!LOLLOLLOL
Bigger pitches 😉
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote N14 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 March 2021 at 5:20pm
Originally posted by dyniol53 dyniol53 wrote:

Major League Rugby (American) are trialling some tweaks to the laws:


In addition to the enhanced communications for the referees MLR will be trialing new law variations which the referees will be implementing as the 2021 season begins March 20.

• Kickers will have 60 seconds as opposed 90 seconds for any kick (conversion/penalty) and will have a kick clock to help guide them.

• Seven points will be automatically awarded for any try scored directly under the posts and no conversion will be necessary.

• Referees will work with stricter protocols that will limit the number of scrums to two per incident – the original plus one reset for a collapse, penalty, or freekick.

• The offside line will be the feed line/channel of the scrum to allow for unimpeded access to the ball at the back of the scrum for the attacking team.

• No longer will a red card mean a team plays a man down for the remainder of the match. Under the new law a red card would lead to a player being sent off and the team goes down to 14 players for 20 minutes. After 20 minutes, the player can be replaced with another player on the bench. The red carded players cannot return to the field in any event and will go through subsequent disciplinary procedures.

“Our goal is to continue to offer fans and teams fast paced, competitive rugby that is safe and balanced.” said Jonathan Kaplan, Match Official Director. “We believe these new laws will enhance our on-field product while staying true to the spirit of rugby.”


They're interesting, I don't like the last one though. Games often open up with there being more gaps in the defence when a team goes down to 14, leading to a greater chance of tries/exciting attacking play. Also only being down to 14 men for 20 minutes makes a more lenient punishment for potential dangerous play etc.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote ladram Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 March 2021 at 5:23pm
Originally posted by Mrfwon Mrfwon wrote:

Originally posted by dyniol53 dyniol53 wrote:

Since the pandemic there have been lots of rugby commentators saying the game is becoming boring - too much kicking, too many big blokes running directly into other big blokes, scrums taking too long, too many mauls, the caterpillar ruck, Exeter pick and going from 5m out even when there’s an overlap outside etc

I’m wondering what fans on this forum think is the actual problem and what changes (if any) the law-makers should amend to create a more entertaining game

Run everything, ban kicking LOLLOLLOLStarStarStar
that's our coaches out of work LOLLOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Scarlet Emperor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 March 2021 at 11:30am
Originally posted by dyniol53 dyniol53 wrote:

Major League Rugby (American) are trialling some tweaks to the laws:


In addition to the enhanced communications for the referees MLR will be trialing new law variations which the referees will be implementing as the 2021 season begins March 20.

• Kickers will have 60 seconds as opposed 90 seconds for any kick (conversion/penalty) and will have a kick clock to help guide them.

• Seven points will be automatically awarded for any try scored directly under the posts and no conversion will be necessary.

• Referees will work with stricter protocols that will limit the number of scrums to two per incident – the original plus one reset for a collapse, penalty, or freekick.

• The offside line will be the feed line/channel of the scrum to allow for unimpeded access to the ball at the back of the scrum for the attacking team.

• No longer will a red card mean a team plays a man down for the remainder of the match. Under the new law a red card would lead to a player being sent off and the team goes down to 14 players for 20 minutes. After 20 minutes, the player can be replaced with another player on the bench. The red carded players cannot return to the field in any event and will go through subsequent disciplinary procedures.

“Our goal is to continue to offer fans and teams fast paced, competitive rugby that is safe and balanced.” said Jonathan Kaplan, Match Official Director. “We believe these new laws will enhance our on-field product while staying true to the spirit of rugby.”

Red cards can kill off games completely. Wales struggled to get wins over Ireland and Scotland after reds. Teams just clam up even more. Whomever gets sent off it’s always the winger that makes way when a team plays with 14. Therefore it stunts their attack out wide with that team becoming more forward oriented. Maybe a forced sub and a 10 min bin would keep the game fluid. Longer bans for foul play could be brought in to put off players having temper tantrums on the pitch. Would like to see the rugby league 60/20 rule trialled in union as well. It would force defending wingers to sit further back and create a bit of space out wide for attacking teams.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jones2004 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 March 2021 at 11:49am
Originally posted by Scarlet Emperor Scarlet Emperor wrote:

Originally posted by dyniol53 dyniol53 wrote:

Major League Rugby (American) are trialling some tweaks to the laws:


In addition to the enhanced communications for the referees MLR will be trialing new law variations which the referees will be implementing as the 2021 season begins March 20.

• Kickers will have 60 seconds as opposed 90 seconds for any kick (conversion/penalty) and will have a kick clock to help guide them.

• Seven points will be automatically awarded for any try scored directly under the posts and no conversion will be necessary.

• Referees will work with stricter protocols that will limit the number of scrums to two per incident – the original plus one reset for a collapse, penalty, or freekick.

• The offside line will be the feed line/channel of the scrum to allow for unimpeded access to the ball at the back of the scrum for the attacking team.

• No longer will a red card mean a team plays a man down for the remainder of the match. Under the new law a red card would lead to a player being sent off and the team goes down to 14 players for 20 minutes. After 20 minutes, the player can be replaced with another player on the bench. The red carded players cannot return to the field in any event and will go through subsequent disciplinary procedures.

“Our goal is to continue to offer fans and teams fast paced, competitive rugby that is safe and balanced.” said Jonathan Kaplan, Match Official Director. “We believe these new laws will enhance our on-field product while staying true to the spirit of rugby.”

Red cards can kill off games completely. Wales struggled to get wins over Ireland and Scotland after reds. Teams just clam up even more. Whomever gets sent off it’s always the winger that makes way when a team plays with 14. Therefore it stunts their attack out wide with that team becoming more forward oriented. Maybe a forced sub and a 10 min bin would keep the game fluid. Longer bans for foul play could be brought in to put off players having temper tantrums on the pitch. Would like to see the rugby league 60/20 rule trialled in union as well. It would force defending wingers to sit further back and create a bit of space out wide for attacking teams.
I don’t agree with you re the red cards. The only time red cards spoil games IMO is when one team is already substantially stronger and a red for the opposing team can result in an absolute hammering. Otherwise I don’t see red cards making games boring - the games against Scotland and Ireland were quite exciting (the game against Ireland was by no means a classic admittedly). Added to that our games against Benetton and Leinster a few seasons ago were incredibly exciting despite our red cards. And also I do believe the punishments have to remain severe to clamp down on dirty and dangerous play and allowing a sub on after 20 minutes reduces that.


Edited by Jones2004 - 20 March 2021 at 11:50am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Eastern outpost Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 March 2021 at 12:29pm
Originally posted by Jones2004 Jones2004 wrote:

Originally posted by Scarlet Emperor Scarlet Emperor wrote:

Originally posted by dyniol53 dyniol53 wrote:

Major League Rugby (American) are trialling some tweaks to the laws:


In addition to the enhanced communications for the referees MLR will be trialing new law variations which the referees will be implementing as the 2021 season begins March 20.

• Kickers will have 60 seconds as opposed 90 seconds for any kick (conversion/penalty) and will have a kick clock to help guide them.

• Seven points will be automatically awarded for any try scored directly under the posts and no conversion will be necessary.

• Referees will work with stricter protocols that will limit the number of scrums to two per incident – the original plus one reset for a collapse, penalty, or freekick.

• The offside line will be the feed line/channel of the scrum to allow for unimpeded access to the ball at the back of the scrum for the attacking team.

• No longer will a red card mean a team plays a man down for the remainder of the match. Under the new law a red card would lead to a player being sent off and the team goes down to 14 players for 20 minutes. After 20 minutes, the player can be replaced with another player on the bench. The red carded players cannot return to the field in any event and will go through subsequent disciplinary procedures.

“Our goal is to continue to offer fans and teams fast paced, competitive rugby that is safe and balanced.” said Jonathan Kaplan, Match Official Director. “We believe these new laws will enhance our on-field product while staying true to the spirit of rugby.”

Red cards can kill off games completely. Wales struggled to get wins over Ireland and Scotland after reds. Teams just clam up even more. Whomever gets sent off it’s always the winger that makes way when a team plays with 14. Therefore it stunts their attack out wide with that team becoming more forward oriented. Maybe a forced sub and a 10 min bin would keep the game fluid. Longer bans for foul play could be brought in to put off players having temper tantrums on the pitch. Would like to see the rugby league 60/20 rule trialled in union as well. It would force defending wingers to sit further back and create a bit of space out wide for attacking teams.
I don’t agree with you re the red cards. The only time red cards spoil games IMO is when one team is already substantially stronger and a red for the opposing team can result in an absolute hammering. Otherwise I don’t see red cards making games boring - the games against Scotland and Ireland were quite exciting (the game against Ireland was by no means a classic admittedly). Added to that our games against Benetton and Leinster a few seasons ago were incredibly exciting despite our red cards. And also I do believe the punishments have to remain severe to clamp down on dirty and dangerous play and allowing a sub on after 20 minutes reduces that.
Agreed.

What other sport has a red card that doesn’t mean the rest of the game? Why should, say Ireland be allowed to get back to full strength after POM’s assault on a defenceless player?

By all means, bring in some flexibility on length of yellow cards but I’m not for changing the duration or seriousness of a red. 


Edited by Eastern outpost - 20 March 2021 at 12:31pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dyniol53 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 August 2021 at 6:17pm
Having watched the Lions vs South Africa, many pundits are saying the rugby was dire, despite some of the best players in the world on show.

However, Australia v France, Australia v New Zealand and Harlequins in general have proved rugby doesn’t have to be boring. 

Do you think that rugby has a problem or do you think it’s just the Saffas and a Gatland coached lions that’s at fault?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dyniol53 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 August 2021 at 7:00pm
As I’ve said on the Lion’s thread I think there opportunities to stop time wasting in certain situations

I.e. this rule in the MLR

 • Kickers will have 60 seconds as opposed 90 seconds for any kick (conversion/penalty) and will have a kick clock to help guide them.

It would be good if broadcasters/TMOs had a “shot clock” like they do in snooker/pool for these sorts of things. 

It would be useful at penalty kicks, scrums, line-outs and when the ref’s shout “use it”. It should then be enforced by TMO if they see an infringement. 

Existing rules are: 

Penalty: The kicking team must indicate their intention to kick for goal without delay.

You could put a 15 second limit to make “without delay” more concrete.

The kick must be taken within 60 seconds (playing time) from the time the team indicated their intention to do so, even if the ball rolls over and has to be placed again. Sanction: Kick is disallowed and a scrum is awarded.

Perhaps the 15seconds of “without delay” could eat into the 60 second shot clock, so in effect the kicker has 60s from when the penalty is awarded vs when they opt for goal.

Scrums: Teams must be ready to form the scrum within 30 seconds of the mark being made. Sanction: Free-kick.

Again, South Africa took the piss here and teams have always used scrums as a way to take time out of the game. The broadcasters/TMO should have the 30s clock up counting down and if they’re not ready actually penalise them.

If a scrummaging player is receiving treatment/drinking water when the 30s is up it should be an immediate free kick to opposing team. It should also be shorter e.g. 15s for any re-sets. 

Line-out: Teams form the lineout without delay. Sanction: Free-kick.

They should make this a metric e.g. 15 seconds from ball being available.

Rucks: When the ball has been clearly won by a team at the ruck, and is available to be played, the referee calls “use it”, after which the ball must be played away from the ruck within five seconds. Sanction: Scrum.

They should have a shot clock here and TMOs should inform the ref when a scrum half hasn’t got it out within the 5s.

It might seem like there would be a lot more shot clock on screen but I think it’s necessary to stop teams cynically wasting time.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 August 2021 at 7:30am
Rather than introduce a new raft of timed rules why not just instruct the ref to penalise slow play after giving a formal warning. Both the Lions and Boks were slow to engage at lineouts. Nothing to do with time wasting but I am beyond fed up of refs not policing the crooked feed in the scrums. The Boks scrum half took it to new levels last weekend not far off feeding direct to the No 8!!!!!

As for the rugby served up it was frankly awful. Gatland knew what was coming from the Boks - supposedly picked a squad to counter it - instead his teams became a poorer copy of the Boks. Lets face it he has had huge success with Wales by doing almost the same as the Boks - fiery defence, aerial efficiency and strong packs. It is not in his DNA to take quick tap and goes from 9 or to have a 10 who looks for the outside channels with his hands and not his feet. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fscarlet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 August 2021 at 9:10am
The law changes coming into the game this season should help to create a better game in the attacking sense, particularly the 50/22 as it will make teams think about having 3 players in the back field to combat this. This should in theory create more gaps in the defensive line, until the attacking team get deeper into the oppositions half anyway. 

We will have hardly any scrums now which should also see a bit more pace in the game, though forward pass & not straight at the lineout will be a tap & pass but the defenders have to be given time to get 10m back.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 August 2021 at 9:52am
Originally posted by Fscarlet Fscarlet wrote:

The law changes coming into the game this season should help to create a better game in the attacking sense, particularly the 50/22 as it will make teams think about having 3 players in the back field to combat this. This should in theory create more gaps in the defensive line, until the attacking team get deeper into the oppositions half anyway. 

We will have hardly any scrums now which should also see a bit more pace in the game, though forward pass & not straight at the lineout will be a tap & pass but the defenders have to be given time to get 10m back.

I await with interest to see how these changes will affect the game. I am not convinced. I see most tap & go free kicks ending up in the air as they would have done from a free kick nowadays. This will not really speed up the game or make it more entertaining just more opportunity for kicking. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote reesytheexile Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 August 2021 at 10:05am
Can we have a tap and go restart for a simple knock on please ( no right to kick until at least one pass after the tap start) . This would avoid a painful protracted scrum and get play quickly resuming. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fscarlet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 August 2021 at 10:17am
Originally posted by reesytheexile reesytheexile wrote:

Can we have a tap and go restart for a simple knock on please ( no right to kick until at least one pass after the tap start) . This would avoid a painful protracted scrum and get play quickly resuming. 

Scrums are now only happening for a knock on, all other incidents that would have resulted in a scrum are now tap & pass. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dyniol53 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 August 2021 at 10:47am
Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Rather than introduce a new raft of timed rules why not just instruct the ref to penalise slow play after giving a formal warning.

I don’t think it would be too invasive as most of them already are timed rules, penalties, scrums and “use it”. I just think they need a way to make it easier for the referees to ping teams when they do actually go over time

A shot clock like they have in pool isn’t too invasive and would actually mean teams were penalised for slowing the game down 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote reesytheexile Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 August 2021 at 12:02pm
Originally posted by Fscarlet Fscarlet wrote:

Originally posted by reesytheexile reesytheexile wrote:

Can we have a tap and go restart for a simple knock on please ( no right to kick until at least one pass after the tap start) . This would avoid a painful protracted scrum and get play quickly resuming. 

Scrums are now only happening for a knock on, all other incidents that would have resulted in a scrum are now tap & pass. 
And ball held up in mauls ? Re scrums what about only allowing scrums outside 22 metres mark which are less likely to tactically collapse and banning them inside 22 metres ( where tactiCal collapsing is more likely)  but subsisting a tap and go ? Scrums are killing the game . 
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