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RR1972 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RR1972 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 June 2021 at 1:28pm
He made stupid tweets 9 years ago, when he was 18. why wait till 9 years after it to ban him, if we banning people from work for making sexist or racist remarks there be no rappers or comedians employed. It was ridiclous. Genuine q Do you want the likes of alan carr and frankie boyle to be banned from tv as well? They mock disabled people and make sexist jokes. Do you want rao artists who use words like b-tches or ho’s banned from tv or radio ?Im all for acting strongly on racism or any bigotry but to do it 9 years later after he has been employed in cricket for the last 9 seasons it’s a bit daft. We all do stupid things as kids but we do leArn and mature as we grow up

Edited by RR1972 - 11 June 2021 at 1:43pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RR1972 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 June 2021 at 1:33pm
Originally posted by dr_martinov dr_martinov wrote:

Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

Originally posted by Dai Guevara Dai Guevara wrote:

Starmer did his best to expel Corbyn and other left politicians from the Labour party (including Jews!!!) supposedly for being anti-semitic when all they were doing was criticising the behaviour of the Israeli government for their behaviour toward Palestinians in territory illegally occupied by Israel. How anyone can consider Starmer honest and principled after this deceitful trick to try to rid the party of those who hold a genuine desire to lessen the vast inequalities in society amazes me. -
But don't expect the right-wing media, (who they are trying so hard to appease) to highlight this, as they are equally keen to rid the press /airwaves of ideas that might spoil the great benefits they have enjoyed under the current regime and those who would be happy to imitate it if elected.
 corbyn was left leaning and took labour to a record defeat. So why would say a rlb a burgon or any other left leaner be any succesful, most of the high profile left leaning labour mps are not only unpopular but pretty useless tbh

I really liked McDonnell and thought their manifesto had loads of sensible ideas in it. Corbyn I never really had any opinion on.

I think I've given up when watching the Hartlepool results and the winning Tory candidate saying "I've got loads of fantastic policies lined up and when I know what they are, I'll let you know" (or something like that). I seriously have no idea what people are voting for in truth.

It is slightly unfair towards the Conservatives because they essentially are forced to lie, because their policies are public spending cuts, tax relief for the rich and pro-business relationships, often to their mates. Inherently unfavourable policies that they have to hide from the majority of the voting public somehow. So to gain and retain power they have become very, very good at doing this.
mcdonnells links to supporting the ira are stronger than corbyns. He had a plaque in his office honouring among others a convicted murderer of a police man, that’s not going to go down well in england no matter how good his manifesto is  or how clever he is tbh and i do think he is a bright guy

Edited by RR1972 - 11 June 2021 at 1:35pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SospanMawr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 June 2021 at 1:42pm
Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

He made stupid tweets 9 years ago, why wait till 9 years after it to ban him, if we banning people from work for making sexist or racist remarks there be no rappers or comedians employed. It was ridiclous. Do you want the likes of alan carr and frankie boyle to be banned from tv as well?
Like I said, describing them as “silly” or “stupid” is, in my opinion, poor taste. He mocked Gary Speed’s suicide, made racist comments, used racist slurs and mocked disabled people.

They obviously didn’t wait 9 years until the biggest day of his career to ban him. Who wins from that? They only became aware of the tweets then.

He hasn’t been banned from work as far as I’m aware? He’s been temporarily suspended from an invitational team that’s a privilege, not a right? He can still make a wage can’t he? I don’t want the bloke ostracised from society. Freedom of speech doesn’t mean freedom from consequences.

Yes the tweets were from 9 years ago. How do you know he’s changed? How do you know he’s educated enough to not do it again? How do you know those weren’t his genuine feelings he still holds today? You don’t. Naturally I hope that that’s the case and that they were just the immature tweets of a teenager. But there’s no way of knowing that right now.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roy munster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 June 2021 at 2:37pm
Originally posted by SospanMawr SospanMawr wrote:

Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

Originally posted by aber-fan aber-fan wrote:

Originally posted by roy munster roy munster wrote:

Originally posted by The Predator The Predator wrote:

Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

That can’t be true in all areas otherwise wards like bolsover and hartlepool wouldn’t be tory wins. The stats don’t add up i think it’s the “shy tory” syndrome kicking in
Unfortunately labour believe that what they read on Twitter by far left idiots is what the general population think, labour need to get away from believing the views on twitter are the views of the majority

Twitter is only effective when a campaign goes viral for a good cause like jo whiley and vaccines for people with learning disabilities. 

If only.

I was reading only yesterday about a Twitter mob ganging up on an author to change a sentence in a book she'd written because of some extremely far-fetched interpretation that it was in some way anti-semitic. Mob rule - and in this case, definitely not in a good cause. 

twitter is full of do gooding loons, the english cricketer banned for posting silly tweets 9 years ago, some people now want him banned for life . Morons
Think calling openly racist tweets, tweets about Gary Speed’s suicide and tweets mocking disabled people  “silly” is in slightly poor taste.

He’s been suspended whilst they investigate further. You can’t blame them at all if they don’t want someone with a history of comments like that representing them.

Why is it only when something is said on twitter that anyone in authority cares? The trash written on youtube and most other places is ignored? also why are these tweets allowed to be posted surely thats twitters fault too for not immediately removing them. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SospanMawr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 June 2021 at 3:00pm
Originally posted by roy munster roy munster wrote:

Why is it only when something is said on twitter that anyone in authority cares? The trash written on youtube and most other places is ignored? also why are these tweets allowed to be posted surely thats twitters fault too for not immediately removing them. 
So there are things on YouTube and other places by current England cricketers that include slurs, racist jokes, suicide jokes and jokes about disabled people that are ignored? I haven’t heard about that?

No, it’s not Twitter’s fault. Take the Gary Speed tweet for example. There’s nothing illegal about making an extremely distasteful joke about a depressed man taking his own life, so what are Twitter supposed to do?

But for the ECB, is it bad taste for someone representing a nation to have their name attributed to that? Absolutely.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SospanMawr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 June 2021 at 3:32pm
Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

He made stupid tweets 9 years ago, when he was 18. why wait till 9 years after it to ban him, if we banning people from work for making sexist or racist remarks there be no rappers or comedians employed. It was ridiclous. Genuine q Do you want the likes of alan carr and frankie boyle to be banned from tv as well? They mock disabled people and make sexist jokes. Do you want rao artists who use words like b-tches or ho’s banned from tv or radio ?Im all for acting strongly on racism or any bigotry but to do it 9 years later after he has been employed in cricket for the last 9 seasons it’s a bit daft. We all do stupid things as kids but we do leArn and mature as we grow up
I’m confused. Has Ollie Robinson been completely banned from cricket? No.

Freedom of speech doesn’t mean freedom from consequences. Frankie Boyle as an example can mock disabled people and make sexist jokes, it just means he won’t be on BBC’s flagship soft comedy shows such as WILTY. He knows that. 

Rappers can use those words and they know they won’t be invited on Radio 1 or Capital. 

Ollie Robinson can still play cricket. Just as of right now, the ECB don’t think it’s best for him to be invited to represent a country, brand and millions of cricket fans. That’s more than fair isn’t it?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roy munster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 June 2021 at 3:36pm
Originally posted by SospanMawr SospanMawr wrote:

Originally posted by roy munster roy munster wrote:

Why is it only when something is said on twitter that anyone in authority cares? The trash written on youtube and most other places is ignored? also why are these tweets allowed to be posted surely thats twitters fault too for not immediately removing them. 
So there are things on YouTube and other places by current England cricketers that include slurs, racist jokes, suicide jokes and jokes about disabled people that are ignored? I haven’t heard about that?

No, it’s not Twitter’s fault. Take the Gary Speed tweet for example. There’s nothing illegal about making an extremely distasteful joke about a depressed man taking his own life, so what are Twitter supposed to do?

But for the ECB, is it bad taste for someone representing a nation to have their name attributed to that? Absolutely.

What an unnecessarily churlish reply...There are endless racist ignorant crude rude biggotted posts all over youtube and many other places. My simple question was why is the rest of the net ignored and only twitter look at ? I think it is twitters fault too, to an extent to police their own site to remove racist biggoted nonsense. As for others, I have to say Frankie boyle is a bog standard shock jock ....He does walk that thin line, barely a joke goes by without accusations of paedophilia and rape, its pretty low brow stuff and yet is on the bbc all the time. But surely some of the trash he comes out with is  offensive to millions but he somehow gets away with it. I recall the BBC showed jerry springer the musical about 15 yrs ago, painting Joseph as a pervert and Jesus as an alcoholic etc 50,000 complaints were ignored....They were going to do something similar with a controversial Islamic play but the same play was shown in a theatre and the theatre was burnt down so the BBc backed out. End result bullies win others get walked over...As for this specific case Ive not read what this cricketer said exactly, are you able to share it with us here putting a few ***'s in the necessary places....




Edited by roy munster - 11 June 2021 at 3:40pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dyniol53 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 June 2021 at 6:46pm
Originally posted by roy munster roy munster wrote:

Originally posted by SospanMawr SospanMawr wrote:

Originally posted by roy munster roy munster wrote:

Why is it only when something is said on twitter that anyone in authority cares? The trash written on youtube and most other places is ignored? also why are these tweets allowed to be posted surely thats twitters fault too for not immediately removing them. 
So there are things on YouTube and other places by current England cricketers that include slurs, racist jokes, suicide jokes and jokes about disabled people that are ignored? I haven’t heard about that?

No, it’s not Twitter’s fault. Take the Gary Speed tweet for example. There’s nothing illegal about making an extremely distasteful joke about a depressed man taking his own life, so what are Twitter supposed to do?

But for the ECB, is it bad taste for someone representing a nation to have their name attributed to that? Absolutely.

What an unnecessarily churlish reply...There are endless racist ignorant crude rude biggotted posts all over youtube and many other places. My simple question was why is the rest of the net ignored and only twitter look at ? I think it is twitters fault too, to an extent to police their own site to remove racist biggoted nonsense.

The simple answer to this is that it’s easier to search Twitter for specific words e.g. if you search “@user123 poo” you’ll find all the times that user123 has tweeted the word poo. That’s why it’s the best tool for offence archaeologists.

The annoying thing about the Ollie Robinson case is that most people agree the jokes are tasteless and crude, most people know they’re unacceptable but also most people think it’s harsh to punish someone for them 9 years later. 

It’s just hard to know what the appropriate response is because the ECB can’t really just say “it was a long time ago not our problem” but suspending him also feels a bit harsh. Hopefully his suspension is only 1 Test and then they pick him in the India games to set the precedent that it’s only a one game ban, not potentially the end of a career. 

Then hopefully now all sports agents and orgs prepare their players for things like this so players don’t have to go through what Matera and Robinson went through after what should be the highlights of their lives. 
https://twitter.com/exile_podcast?lang=en
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dyniol53 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 June 2021 at 6:53pm
The few offensive tweets are found here.

In my view they’re all mostly just bad-taste jokes. Some of them offend me and some of them don’t. When he uses the N word he’s not actually calling a black person a n****, he’s doing it in a way that two rappers might greet each other.

It’s worth saying the context of Twitter at the time isn’t how it is now - it felt much more like what WhatsApp groups where you follow your mates and a few celebrities, whereas now it’s more like the World’s Official Forum.

Needless to say I don’t think the intervention from the Tory MP, nor Boris Johnson was helpful at all and only meant Robinson was in the limelight a lot longer than he needed to be.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roy munster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 June 2021 at 7:00pm
A mate told me he had a tweet removed after he described a photo of keir starmer hitting a punch bag and simply wrote..."youll need to pack more power than that to win the next election "
Yet that was removed in case it offended someone? madness
maybe its their policies and rules that are part of this mess, what actually is abuse, what is sarcasm and wit, what is harmless constructive criticism and what is offensive?


Edited by roy munster - 11 June 2021 at 7:12pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dyniol53 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 June 2021 at 7:08pm
There’s a thread a few pages back about FPTP and PR. 

There’s two things about this - the people who lose elections want electoral reform which makes their team more likely to win. It’s shameless. Like a rugby team saying “Nigel Owen’s reffing doesn’t suit our style so he shouldn’t be allowed to ref us, we should have Wayne Barnes every game”. The brazen attempt to amend democracy just so your team is more likely to win isn’t democracy, it’s modern Russia.

The second point is FPTP is actually a really bad system. And there are a few different ways you could amend it so we get better outcomes (or politicians that are more representative of what people actually want) my preferred version of this is called Approval Voting

Approval Voting means when you go to the ballot box you can vote for as many parties as you like - and each tick counts as one vote. 

So if you’re a staunch Tory you can just put one tick in the Tory box.

If you hate the Tories you can vote for every party except the Tories.

If you’re a Labour supporter but didn’t want to stay in the EU you could vote for Labour and UKIP. 

If you just love democracy you can vote for all the parties, or spoil your ballot. 

It’s an interesting prospect because it means there can be lots of single issue parties, as well as the major political parties, which means we can gauge how popular specific things are. 

It also means people can vote FOR things rather than against them e.g. voting Lib Dem just because they’re the closest contender to Lab/Con in your area. Instead you can just vote Labour if you don’t like the Lib Dem’s either.

HOWEVER, FPTP might be the secret ingredient to why Britain is one of the most stable societies in the world, not because it’s the best system but rather because it forces the main parties to listen to the voters (eventually). My post has gone on too long but David Deutsch explains it brilliantly in this video.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dyniol53 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 June 2021 at 7:17pm
Originally posted by roy munster roy munster wrote:

A mate told me he had a tweet removed after he described a photo of keir starmer hitting a punch bag and simply wrote..."youll need to pack more power than that to win the next election "
Yet that was removed in case it offended someone? madness
maybe its their policies and rules that are part of this mess, what actually is abuse, what is sarcasm and wit, what is harmless constructive criticism and what is offensive?

This will have been taken down by a bot because it used the words punch, so their algorithm/bot will have taken it down automatically. It won’t have been a human reviewing it and taking it down, because a human would have understood the figure of speech.

It’s a bit like when I typed sh!t in one of my above posts, SF auto-corrected the post to say poo

(Sorry I actually misread what your quote said and thought it said punch, maybe it did or didn’t but that’s how their algorithms work.)


Edited by dyniol53 - 11 June 2021 at 7:19pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roy munster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 June 2021 at 7:36pm
Originally posted by dyniol53 dyniol53 wrote:

Originally posted by roy munster roy munster wrote:

A mate told me he had a tweet removed after he described a photo of keir starmer hitting a punch bag and simply wrote..."youll need to pack more power than that to win the next election "
Yet that was removed in case it offended someone? madness
maybe its their policies and rules that are part of this mess, what actually is abuse, what is sarcasm and wit, what is harmless constructive criticism and what is offensive?

This will have been taken down by a bot because it used the words punch, so their algorithm/bot will have taken it down automatically. It won’t have been a human reviewing it and taking it down, because a human would have understood the figure of speech.

It’s a bit like when I typed sh!t in one of my above posts, SF auto-corrected the post to say poo

(Sorry I actually misread what your quote said and thought it said punch, maybe it did or didn’t but that’s how their algorithms work.)

They need to sort their bots out then
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dai Guevara Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 June 2021 at 8:38pm
Originally posted by dr_martinov dr_martinov wrote:

Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

Originally posted by Dai Guevara Dai Guevara wrote:

Starmer did his best to expel Corbyn and other left politicians from the Labour party (including Jews!!!) supposedly for being anti-semitic when all they were doing was criticising the behaviour of the Israeli government for their behaviour toward Palestinians in territory illegally occupied by Israel. How anyone can consider Starmer honest and principled after this deceitful trick to try to rid the party of those who hold a genuine desire to lessen the vast inequalities in society amazes me. -
But don't expect the right-wing media, (who they are trying so hard to appease) to highlight this, as they are equally keen to rid the press /airwaves of ideas that might spoil the great benefits they have enjoyed under the current regime and those who would be happy to imitate it if elected.
 corbyn was left leaning and took labour to a record defeat. So why would say a rlb a burgon or any other left leaner be any succesful, most of the high profile left leaning labour mps are not only unpopular but pretty useless tbh


I really liked McDonnell and thought their manifesto had loads of sensible ideas in it. Corbyn I never really had any opinion on.

I think I've given up when watching the Hartlepool results and the winning Tory candidate saying "I've got loads of fantastic policies lined up and when I know what they are, I'll let you know" (or something like that). I seriously have no idea what people are voting for in truth.

It is slightly unfair towards the Conservatives because they essentially are forced to lie, because their policies are public spending cuts, tax relief for the rich and pro-business relationships, often to their mates. Inherently unfavourable policies that they have to hide from the majority of the voting public somehow. So to gain and retain power they have become very, very good at doing this.


I'm not sure how seriously to take this "Tories have got to lie" post. Your explanations for their perpetual lying are of course true, but from there, instead of justifying their behaviour,perhaps you should be asking why the public don't seem to revolt strongly against the greedy, lying, cheating barstiwards, and the answer to this must lie with the media's inability to ruthlessly and relentlessly challenge them in the same way as they completely and continually demonised the likes of Corbyn. I say inability to go for the tories' throat but unwillingness is probably nearer to the truth and this must due to a wish to maintain their career prospects under their billionaire bosses.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aber-fan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 June 2021 at 7:26am
Originally posted by dyniol53 dyniol53 wrote:

There’s a thread a few pages back about FPTP and PR. 

There’s two things about this - the people who lose elections want electoral reform which makes their team more likely to win. It’s shameless. Like a rugby team saying “Nigel Owen’s reffing doesn’t suit our style so he shouldn’t be allowed to ref us, we should have Wayne Barnes every game”. The brazen attempt to amend democracy just so your team is more likely to win isn’t democracy, it’s modern Russia.

The second point is FPTP is actually a really bad system. And there are a few different ways you could amend it so we get better outcomes (or politicians that are more representative of what people actually want) my preferred version of this is called Approval Voting....


HOWEVER, FPTP might be the secret ingredient to why Britain is one of the most stable societies in the world, not because it’s the best system but rather because it forces the main parties to listen to the voters (eventually). 

The first part of your post is interesting... and I'd prefer some form of PR to what we have now.

The second part, though - is Britain really so great? Do the parties listen to the voters? Or do we, rather, have a system where the voters listen to the media - which are dominated by Conservative-backing tax-evading billionaires - so we get laws and systems which favour those people?

I know what I think...
“You cannot reason a man out of what he never reasoned himself into.” (Jonathan Swift)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dr_martinov Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 June 2021 at 9:34am
Originally posted by dyniol53 dyniol53 wrote:

There’s a thread a few pages back about FPTP and PR. 

There’s two things about this - the people who lose elections want electoral reform which makes their team more likely to win. It’s shameless. Like a rugby team saying “Nigel Owen’s reffing doesn’t suit our style so he shouldn’t be allowed to ref us, we should have Wayne Barnes every game”. The brazen attempt to amend democracy just so your team is more likely to win isn’t democracy, it’s modern Russia.

The second point is FPTP is actually a really bad system. And there are a few different ways you could amend it so we get better outcomes (or politicians that are more representative of what people actually want) my preferred version of this is called Approval Voting

Approval Voting means when you go to the ballot box you can vote for as many parties as you like - and each tick counts as one vote. 

So if you’re a staunch Tory you can just put one tick in the Tory box.

If you hate the Tories you can vote for every party except the Tories.

If you’re a Labour supporter but didn’t want to stay in the EU you could vote for Labour and UKIP. 

If you just love democracy you can vote for all the parties, or spoil your ballot. 

It’s an interesting prospect because it means there can be lots of single issue parties, as well as the major political parties, which means we can gauge how popular specific things are. 

It also means people can vote FOR things rather than against them e.g. voting Lib Dem just because they’re the closest contender to Lab/Con in your area. Instead you can just vote Labour if you don’t like the Lib Dem’s either.

HOWEVER, FPTP might be the secret ingredient to why Britain is one of the most stable societies in the world, not because it’s the best system but rather because it forces the main parties to listen to the voters (eventually). My post has gone on too long but David Deutsch explains it brilliantly in this video.

Nice post. I don't think democracy is a set thing but you are describing it from the pov of the parties themselves rather than the voters with your analogy. E.g. only having two teams in the pitch to support is very relevant! Plus I think this happens within FPTP as well, gerrymandering, safe seats, political voting etc. Any system can be fiddled, fact of life.

Your second comment very interesting and I can definitely see that. It does take time but minority views are slowly incorporated into the big two parties, and they nick each others good ideas frequently, so yes must promote stability. But there are costs to this I suppose, can't adapt quickly, disenfranchised voter base (what percentage of the UK don't bother?) and ultimately you do have a minority voting percentage in terms of total votes boosted to being a majority government. But yes, I can see it is effective even if it appears unfair. Possibly UK attitudes contribute towards that stability as well.

Nonetheless we've still seem some pretty bad stuff recently in terms of corruption, illegal and unethical behaviour and they still have to be held to account somehow. 

As you say, Nige would sort them out. (I guess the parallel is having a Speaker and political system that doesn't tolerate lying, evasion and campaigning in the chamber in response to criticism and questioning.)
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