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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roy munster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 May 2021 at 4:49pm
Originally posted by dr_martinov dr_martinov wrote:

My thoughts are well-known but I'd say there's a dangerous overlap of political and media interests this has highlighted. Thorough investigative unbiased journalism is needed to hold governments and MPs to account, because they will not do it themselves. This has been made apparent with numerous investigation whitewashed. Johnson gets away with all Freedland points out because he can. It's not just because he has a majority and can win elections; this is not be justification for corruption.

An example of how bad this issue has become is present by Laura Kuenssberg's article on the BBC. It starts off asking "why is it a problem if the prime minster lies?" before then saying how skilled a speaker he is in terms of waffling nonsensical rhretoric (my words), comparing him favourably to Steve Jobs in terms of "bending facts to achieve his goals" and ultimately concluding "Johnson just wants to be loved." No Ms Kuenssberg, we are talking about corruption here and you are a political journalist, not a Tory spin doctor. Say the word and say that he has lied in the House of Commons and put this in context to that he has been sacked from two previous jobs from lying. Your readers also deserve the truth, you'd think. It's truly pathetic and contributes to the public tolerance of political corruption.

Surely someone can catch him , the unlawful covid contracts are enough to get most people sacked. This has to be the most corrupt govt ever
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PenScarlet44 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 May 2021 at 5:36pm
Originally posted by roy munster roy munster wrote:

Originally posted by dr_martinov dr_martinov wrote:

My thoughts are well-known but I'd say there's a dangerous overlap of political and media interests this has highlighted. Thorough investigative unbiased journalism is needed to hold governments and MPs to account, because they will not do it themselves. This has been made apparent with numerous investigation whitewashed. Johnson gets away with all Freedland points out because he can. It's not just because he has a majority and can win elections; this is not be justification for corruption.

An example of how bad this issue has become is present by Laura Kuenssberg's article on the BBC. It starts off asking "why is it a problem if the prime minster lies?" before then saying how skilled a speaker he is in terms of waffling nonsensical rhretoric (my words), comparing him favourably to Steve Jobs in terms of "bending facts to achieve his goals" and ultimately concluding "Johnson just wants to be loved." No Ms Kuenssberg, we are talking about corruption here and you are a political journalist, not a Tory spin doctor. Say the word and say that he has lied in the House of Commons and put this in context to that he has been sacked from two previous jobs from lying. Your readers also deserve the truth, you'd think. It's truly pathetic and contributes to the public tolerance of political corruption.

Surely someone can catch him , the unlawful covid contracts are enough to get most people sacked. This has to be the most corrupt govt ever
No where near as corrupted as a labour government who took us to an illegal war
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roy munster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 May 2021 at 6:38pm
Originally posted by PenScarlet44 PenScarlet44 wrote:

Originally posted by roy munster roy munster wrote:

Originally posted by dr_martinov dr_martinov wrote:

My thoughts are well-known but I'd say there's a dangerous overlap of political and media interests this has highlighted. Thorough investigative unbiased journalism is needed to hold governments and MPs to account, because they will not do it themselves. This has been made apparent with numerous investigation whitewashed. Johnson gets away with all Freedland points out because he can. It's not just because he has a majority and can win elections; this is not be justification for corruption.

An example of how bad this issue has become is present by Laura Kuenssberg's article on the BBC. It starts off asking "why is it a problem if the prime minster lies?" before then saying how skilled a speaker he is in terms of waffling nonsensical rhretoric (my words), comparing him favourably to Steve Jobs in terms of "bending facts to achieve his goals" and ultimately concluding "Johnson just wants to be loved." No Ms Kuenssberg, we are talking about corruption here and you are a political journalist, not a Tory spin doctor. Say the word and say that he has lied in the House of Commons and put this in context to that he has been sacked from two previous jobs from lying. Your readers also deserve the truth, you'd think. It's truly pathetic and contributes to the public tolerance of political corruption.

I cant argue with that that was the worse policy decision ever made by a UK govt, certainly in my lifetime and the reason millions never voted labour since, until those who voted in favor have left parliament. Trouble is millions of disillusioned labour voters will never vote tory either , so we end up with a massive vaccuum of nomadic voters....This is the main reason the snp took over scotland imo 


 

Surely someone can catch him , the unlawful covid contracts are enough to get most people sacked. This has to be the most corrupt govt ever
No where near as corrupted as a labour government who took us to an illegal war
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SA14 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 May 2021 at 2:06pm
Originally posted by PenScarlet44 PenScarlet44 wrote:

Originally posted by roy munster roy munster wrote:

Originally posted by dr_martinov dr_martinov wrote:

My thoughts are well-known but I'd say there's a dangerous overlap of political and media interests this has highlighted. Thorough investigative unbiased journalism is needed to hold governments and MPs to account, because they will not do it themselves. This has been made apparent with numerous investigation whitewashed. Johnson gets away with all Freedland points out because he can. It's not just because he has a majority and can win elections; this is not be justification for corruption.

An example of how bad this issue has become is present by Laura Kuenssberg's article on the BBC. It starts off asking "why is it a problem if the prime minster lies?" before then saying how skilled a speaker he is in terms of waffling nonsensical rhretoric (my words), comparing him favourably to Steve Jobs in terms of "bending facts to achieve his goals" and ultimately concluding "Johnson just wants to be loved." No Ms Kuenssberg, we are talking about corruption here and you are a political journalist, not a Tory spin doctor. Say the word and say that he has lied in the House of Commons and put this in context to that he has been sacked from two previous jobs from lying. Your readers also deserve the truth, you'd think. It's truly pathetic and contributes to the public tolerance of political corruption.

Surely someone can catch him , the unlawful covid contracts are enough to get most people sacked. This has to be the most corrupt govt ever
No where near as corrupted as a labour government who took us to an illegal war

Hold on, you mean the conservative AND Labour are liars? I never knew that. It’s almost as if they’re all as bad as each other and just depends which side of the political spectrum your on that dictates if they’re scum or ok. 


Edited by SA14 - 03 May 2021 at 2:07pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dai Guevara Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 May 2021 at 4:52pm
I feel that last night's "final" episode of "Line of duty" was an anti-climax and the revelation of "Mr Big", was not convincing to say the least,so there is plenty of scope for follow up series, leading to the real Mr Big, so corrupt that he can easily pull all the complicated strings that we've seen so far.
My guess is that it goes all the way to the top and that in a couple of series time, Boris will be revealed as the arch criminal, maybe after an incredible car/tank chase and shoot-out between MI5 and MI6. Well it wouldn't be much more far-fetched than some of the BBC's current political coverage.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dr_martinov Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 May 2021 at 7:44am
Originally posted by SA14 SA14 wrote:

Originally posted by PenScarlet44 PenScarlet44 wrote:

Originally posted by roy munster roy munster wrote:

Originally posted by dr_martinov dr_martinov wrote:

My thoughts are well-known but I'd say there's a dangerous overlap of political and media interests this has highlighted. Thorough investigative unbiased journalism is needed to hold governments and MPs to account, because they will not do it themselves. This has been made apparent with numerous investigation whitewashed. Johnson gets away with all Freedland points out because he can. It's not just because he has a majority and can win elections; this is not be justification for corruption.

An example of how bad this issue has become is present by Laura Kuenssberg's article on the BBC. It starts off asking "why is it a problem if the prime minster lies?" before then saying how skilled a speaker he is in terms of waffling nonsensical rhretoric (my words), comparing him favourably to Steve Jobs in terms of "bending facts to achieve his goals" and ultimately concluding "Johnson just wants to be loved." No Ms Kuenssberg, we are talking about corruption here and you are a political journalist, not a Tory spin doctor. Say the word and say that he has lied in the House of Commons and put this in context to that he has been sacked from two previous jobs from lying. Your readers also deserve the truth, you'd think. It's truly pathetic and contributes to the public tolerance of political corruption.

Surely someone can catch him , the unlawful covid contracts are enough to get most people sacked. This has to be the most corrupt govt ever
No where near as corrupted as a labour government who took us to an illegal war

Hold on, you mean the conservative AND Labour are liars? I never knew that. It’s almost as if they’re all as bad as each other and just depends which side of the political spectrum your on that dictates if they’re scum or ok. 

I don't believe "they're all the same" and in fact consider it the easy viewpoint as it's a generalisation made without evidence. Take truthfulness as a measure. Do you think a) ALL politicians lie ALL the time? and, if not, b) they all lie by the exact same amount?

I personally don't think this and that there are still good and bad politicians. Or bad and even worse politicians if you wish to be cynical. Nothing wrong with questioning their actions as public disapproval can improve things, even if changes are slow. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dr_martinov Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 May 2021 at 1:03pm
Not quite sure where to put this but deserves a mention:

Nadine Dorries claims Boris Johnson and Brexit have delivered 180,000 well-paid jobs in Hartlepool. Sounds fantastic and then you read that Hartlepool has a population of 92,000. LOL

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roy munster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 May 2021 at 1:34pm
The choice is so poor. Between a self interested greedy bunch with endless stories of corruption and money grabbing and the new labour hypocrites. In the interests of balance I just recalled the child abuse cover ups under new labour too, an estimated 15000 children abused and the police claimed to be too scared to investigate them all at the time for fear of being labelled racist or starting a race war up north. There is also the fact the gap between rich and poor actually grew under new labour. Plus the record levels of mrsa in uk hospitals. Labour have run llanelli forever and hows that turning out? some fo the worst drug rates in wales, the worst alcohol rates in the county (3 times the county average) and the town centre voted 2nd worst in the UK. The hospital emergency ward reduced to minor injuries despite the town having 5 times the population of carmarthen? Hardly a great track record. For the life of me I couldnt understand how all that happened under new labour, we paid more taxes yet got worse results


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dr_martinov Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 May 2021 at 1:43pm
A large part of the issue for me is having to all intents and purposes a two party system. Followed by FPTP. Together, this results in a large % of people who don't care and/or feel their vote does not matter. It also means to get either of the main parties to incorporate current issues is very slow as it has to be done internally. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dr_martinov Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 May 2021 at 1:44pm
Originally posted by roy munster roy munster wrote:

The choice is so poor. Between a self interested greedy bunch with endless stories of corruption and money grabbing and the new labour hypocrites. In the interests of balance I just recalled the child abuse cover ups under new labour too, an estimated 15000 children abused and the police claimed to be too scared to investigate them all at the time for fear of being labelled racist or starting a race war up north. There is also the fact the gap between rich and poor actually grew under new labour. Plus the record levels of mrsa in uk hospitals. Labour have run llanelli forever and hows that turning out? some fo the worst drug rates in wales, the worst alcohol rates in the county (3 times the county average) and the town centre voted 2nd worst in the UK. The hospital emergency ward reduced to minor injuries despite the town having 5 times the population of carmarthen? Hardly a great track record. For the life of me I couldnt understand how all that happened under new labour, we paid more taxes yet got worse results


That is disappointing.... Come on guys, put in an effort and get that 1st place! What town was no 1 out of interest?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roy munster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 May 2021 at 2:02pm
Dudley I think , they dont even have a poundland there Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dai Guevara Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 May 2021 at 5:31pm
A democracy where 99% of the information required to make a reasoned political decision has been filtered and censored by a ruling class with a vested interest in maintaining their position and wealth is not really a democracy. Is it that surprising that the electorate often appear as masochists who vote against their own interests?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roy munster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 May 2021 at 6:22pm
Theres no doubt most news we hear is biased and filtered with big corporate vested interests , every side always claims to have the best version of the truth. But on the flip side in wales we seem to lack enough news media coverage. Lest we forget how much waste and cover ups weve had in welsh councils and the WAG too. The UK govt has an infinitely bigger budget and power still though so they can do far more damage. I do find it endlessly bizarre the vast majority, myself included focus on the PM and the london celebrities yet could barely name a local councillor or AM

Edited by roy munster - 04 May 2021 at 6:27pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SA14 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 May 2021 at 10:15pm
I’ve come to the conclusion that this forum is rather Labour orientated. We do wear red I suppose. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aber-fan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 May 2021 at 11:36am
Originally posted by dr_martinov dr_martinov wrote:

A large part of the issue for me is having to all intents and purposes a two party system. Followed by FPTP. Together, this results in a large % of people who don't care and/or feel their vote does not matter. It also means to get either of the main parties to incorporate current issues is very slow as it has to be done internally. 

The two things are linked - FPTP leads to a two-party system, because as you say, people may well vote tactically rather than for their preferred candidate, or just don't vote for the same reasons. 

I don't know what the 'best' system would look like, but I do prefer the Senedd electoral system, which ensures at least some representation for the smaller parties. It's also very difficult for anyone to get an overall majority here - has Labour ever managed it? usually, they have to deal with another party to govern, which again leads to less extreme policies.

When we look at how the Tories have governed the UK for the last 10 years, this is no bad thing! That really is an extremist government!
“You cannot reason a man out of what he never reasoned himself into.” (Jonathan Swift)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 May 2021 at 11:46am
Originally posted by aber-fan aber-fan wrote:

Originally posted by dr_martinov dr_martinov wrote:

A large part of the issue for me is having to all intents and purposes a two party system. Followed by FPTP. Together, this results in a large % of people who don't care and/or feel their vote does not matter. It also means to get either of the main parties to incorporate current issues is very slow as it has to be done internally. 

The two things are linked - FPTP leads to a two-party system, because as you say, people may well vote tactically rather than for their preferred candidate, or just don't vote for the same reasons. 

I don't know what the 'best' system would look like, but I do prefer the Senedd electoral system, which ensures at least some representation for the smaller parties. It's also very difficult for anyone to get an overall majority here - has Labour ever managed it? usually, they have to deal with another party to govern, which again leads to less extreme policies.

When we look at how the Tories have governed the UK for the last 10 years, this is no bad thing! That really is an extremist government!

Blair had an overall majority from memory and that didn't go well. For me proportional representation seems the best system. If you get 10% of the overall vote it seems pretty democratic that you get 10% of the MP's in Westminster. 
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