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The Predator View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Predator Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 June 2021 at 7:42pm
Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

That can’t be true in all areas otherwise wards like bolsover and hartlepool wouldn’t be tory wins. The stats don’t add up i think it’s the “shy tory” syndrome kicking in
Unfortunately labour believe that what they read on Twitter by far left idiots is what the general population think, labour need to get away from believing the views on twitter are the views of the majority
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roy munster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 June 2021 at 1:00am
Originally posted by The Predator The Predator wrote:

Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

That can’t be true in all areas otherwise wards like bolsover and hartlepool wouldn’t be tory wins. The stats don’t add up i think it’s the “shy tory” syndrome kicking in
Unfortunately labour believe that what they read on Twitter by far left idiots is what the general population think, labour need to get away from believing the views on twitter are the views of the majority

Twitter is only effective when a campaign goes viral for a good cause like jo whiley and vaccines for people with learning disabilities. 
ROYMOND MUNTER MBE (FOR SERVICES TO THE COMBOVER)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dai Guevara Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 June 2021 at 8:03am
The Labour leadership have unfortunately believed that what they read in the Sun , Mail and Express and BBC is true and appointed a truly wooden right, wing leader in the belief that it will appease the incessant right wing propaganda and bring victory against the appalling Boris and his corrupt, lying cronies, whereas all it has done is alienate them even further from their base who now may as well vote for the real thing than Tory lite, if they bother to vote at all.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dr_martinov Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 June 2021 at 8:35am
The ineptitude and blaming others is amazing.

Brexit, everyone's favourite, they spend ages negotiating a deal including the NI protocol which Johnson celebrates as being a massive victory etc. and now realise the terms they themselves negotiated and agreed upon have caused a trade border between NI and the rest of the UK.

No [beep]ing poo, we all knew that. So what has happened is they negotiated a deal before realising what it meant, which is incompetence, and are now trying to change it. But somehow it's the EU's fault for being inflexible?

This is laughable as well just to see the stupidity of some of our MPs:


Irrespective of my own opinion, YOU wanted Brexit so deal with the consequences of what you have done and negotiated. There is a trade border between ROI and NI (breaking the GFA) or NI and the rest of the UK. One or the other. That is exactly what you voted for.

Same with Hancock yesterday. Lies, no accountability, only blaming others, attempting to re-write history, sees himself as Britain's saviour.... all the time the NHS is under-funded, an insulting pay-rise that amounts to a pay cut, our own PM allegedly saying he would rather see "the bodies pile high" than, you know, do anything. Plus Hancock, his family and his friend personally profited over the crisis.

It makes me thoroughly sick and we should all remember the clap for the NHS as exactly what it was: an empty gesture that made good TV for 5 minutes all the while the Government did the absolute minimal possible and diverted massive amounts of public funds to themselves, their own party and close business associates.

Then the number of proven illegal actions by our government is growing, investigations into misconduct, bullying, racism whitewashed. Even when evidence of these actions is found, nothing happens. Underfunding of education, well what do you expect from people who've come from the English private school system? A growing wealth gap, Sunak laughing about making the City a new haven from the G7's weak efforts to tighten tax on the super-rich. Lies upon lies upon lies. Nothing happens, no one cares.

Yet "Boris's" popularity increases yet further because he can dress up in high vis and a hard hat plus make gags about pants.

This is the UK, it's not even satire, this is actually what we have. 


Edited by dr_martinov - 11 June 2021 at 8:48am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aber-fan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 June 2021 at 9:01am
Doc, I agree with everything you say - and am just as angry. We got into it a bit yesterday when walking the dog, with someone who absolutely refused to blame Johnson for anything - all the incompetence and U-turns during this whole COVID disaster - because he was "Only following advice". He's the PM, FFS! He takes a lot of advice from a lot of people , and then HE DECIDES. But he doesn't accept responsibility...
“You cannot reason a man out of what he never reasoned himself into.” (Jonathan Swift)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aber-fan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 June 2021 at 9:09am
Originally posted by roy munster roy munster wrote:

Originally posted by The Predator The Predator wrote:

Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

That can’t be true in all areas otherwise wards like bolsover and hartlepool wouldn’t be tory wins. The stats don’t add up i think it’s the “shy tory” syndrome kicking in
Unfortunately labour believe that what they read on Twitter by far left idiots is what the general population think, labour need to get away from believing the views on twitter are the views of the majority

Twitter is only effective when a campaign goes viral for a good cause like jo whiley and vaccines for people with learning disabilities. 

If only.

I was reading only yesterday about a Twitter mob ganging up on an author to change a sentence in a book she'd written because of some extremely far-fetched interpretation that it was in some way anti-semitic. Mob rule - and in this case, definitely not in a good cause. 

“You cannot reason a man out of what he never reasoned himself into.” (Jonathan Swift)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dai Guevara Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 June 2021 at 9:29am
Starmer did his best to expel Corbyn and other left politicians from the Labour party (including Jews!!!) supposedly for being anti-semitic when all they were doing was criticising the behaviour of the Israeli government for their behaviour toward Palestinians in territory illegally occupied by Israel. How anyone can consider Starmer honest and principled after this deceitful trick to try to rid the party of those who hold a genuine desire to lessen the vast inequalities in society amazes me. -
But don't expect the right-wing media, (who they are trying so hard to appease) to highlight this, as they are equally keen to rid the press /airwaves of ideas that might spoil the great benefits they have enjoyed under the current regime and those who would be happy to imitate it if elected.

Edited by Dai Guevara - 11 June 2021 at 9:37am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dr_martinov Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 June 2021 at 10:19am
Originally posted by aber-fan aber-fan wrote:

Doc, I agree with everything you say - and am just as angry. We got into it a bit yesterday when walking the dog, with someone who absolutely refused to blame Johnson for anything - all the incompetence and U-turns during this whole COVID disaster - because he was "Only following advice". He's the PM, FFS! He takes a lot of advice from a lot of people , and then HE DECIDES. But he doesn't accept responsibility...

It's a cult of personality. I first read your post as you got into an argument with your dog! Probably get more sense back. Wink

And I know we're just cycling agreement here but he clearly doesn't follow advice. He was on holiday in February, didn't go to any SAGE meetings, consistently ignored scientific advice about lockdowns or shutting borders. And now Hancock is spinning things to blame the advice of scientists they didn't even take! 

I completely agree this sympathy vote for Boris who is "only doing his best" is a bizarre defence because it is basically the acceptance of incompetence. We're basically saying Boris is the best we can have for PM?! This is blatantly untrue and he is well known to be lazy, inattentive to details and has been sacked for lying from two jobs before. No offence to them, but is having a newspaper columnist who was paid to make up viewpoints he didn't even have to attract and entertain readers really what we want as leader of our country? And anyway, he clearly isn't "doing his best" as he spends far more of his time and energy dressing up for photo shoots, on holiday or decorating his flat. As loathsome as I find him at least Hancock has worked hard and arguably has "tried his best" (but again, what best means isn't exactly a high level and who it is best FOR is another matter...).

It's a chaotic government without any real skill, questionable ethics and proven corruption. They were chosen for being pro-Brexit, loyalty to Johnson and lack of immediate leadership threat to him, not any governing, leadership or management ability. Why he escapes harsh criticism by many of the UK public I suspect is a combination of post-Brexit divides, lack of alternative (or unawareness of), and a crisis response with an innate instinct to band around any form of status quo or leadership, no matter how poor it is.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 June 2021 at 10:51am
Originally posted by dr_martinov dr_martinov wrote:

Originally posted by aber-fan aber-fan wrote:

Doc, I agree with everything you say - and am just as angry. We got into it a bit yesterday when walking the dog, with someone who absolutely refused to blame Johnson for anything - all the incompetence and U-turns during this whole COVID disaster - because he was "Only following advice". He's the PM, FFS! He takes a lot of advice from a lot of people , and then HE DECIDES. But he doesn't accept responsibility...

It's a cult of personality. I first read your post as you got into an argument with your dog! Probably get more sense back. Wink

And I know we're just cycling agreement here but he clearly doesn't follow advice. He was on holiday in February, didn't go to any SAGE meetings, consistently ignored scientific advice about lockdowns or shutting borders. And now Hancock is spinning things to blame the advice of scientists they didn't even take! 

I completely agree this sympathy vote for Boris who is "only doing his best" is a bizarre defence because it is basically the acceptance of incompetence. We're basically saying Boris is the best we can have for PM?! This is blatantly untrue and he is well known to be lazy, inattentive to details and has been sacked for lying from two jobs before. No offence to them, but is having a newspaper columnist who was paid to make up viewpoints he didn't even have to attract and entertain readers really what we want as leader of our country? And anyway, he clearly isn't "doing his best" as he spends far more of his time and energy dressing up for photo shoots, on holiday or decorating his flat. As loathsome as I find him at least Hancock has worked hard and arguably has "tried his best" (but again, what best means isn't exactly a high level and who it is best FOR is another matter...).

It's a chaotic government without any real skill, questionable ethics and proven corruption. They were chosen for being pro-Brexit, loyalty to Johnson and lack of immediate leadership threat to him, not any governing, leadership or management ability. Why he escapes harsh criticism by many of the UK public I suspect is a combination of post-Brexit divides, lack of alternative (or unawareness of), and a crisis response with an innate instinct to band around any form of status quo or leadership, no matter how poor it is.

DR M - I share your deep frustration about the non quality of our political ruling classes but the million dollar question you have yet to tackle is - what/who is the alternative? Dai has made a very valid case against Starmer so unless a viable, electable alternative is found we are doomed to the status quo. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dr_martinov Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 June 2021 at 11:31am
Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Originally posted by dr_martinov dr_martinov wrote:

Originally posted by aber-fan aber-fan wrote:

Doc, I agree with everything you say - and am just as angry. We got into it a bit yesterday when walking the dog, with someone who absolutely refused to blame Johnson for anything - all the incompetence and U-turns during this whole COVID disaster - because he was "Only following advice". He's the PM, FFS! He takes a lot of advice from a lot of people , and then HE DECIDES. But he doesn't accept responsibility...

It's a cult of personality. I first read your post as you got into an argument with your dog! Probably get more sense back. Wink

And I know we're just cycling agreement here but he clearly doesn't follow advice. He was on holiday in February, didn't go to any SAGE meetings, consistently ignored scientific advice about lockdowns or shutting borders. And now Hancock is spinning things to blame the advice of scientists they didn't even take! 

I completely agree this sympathy vote for Boris who is "only doing his best" is a bizarre defence because it is basically the acceptance of incompetence. We're basically saying Boris is the best we can have for PM?! This is blatantly untrue and he is well known to be lazy, inattentive to details and has been sacked for lying from two jobs before. No offence to them, but is having a newspaper columnist who was paid to make up viewpoints he didn't even have to attract and entertain readers really what we want as leader of our country? And anyway, he clearly isn't "doing his best" as he spends far more of his time and energy dressing up for photo shoots, on holiday or decorating his flat. As loathsome as I find him at least Hancock has worked hard and arguably has "tried his best" (but again, what best means isn't exactly a high level and who it is best FOR is another matter...).

It's a chaotic government without any real skill, questionable ethics and proven corruption. They were chosen for being pro-Brexit, loyalty to Johnson and lack of immediate leadership threat to him, not any governing, leadership or management ability. Why he escapes harsh criticism by many of the UK public I suspect is a combination of post-Brexit divides, lack of alternative (or unawareness of), and a crisis response with an innate instinct to band around any form of status quo or leadership, no matter how poor it is.

DR M - I share your deep frustration about the non quality of our political ruling classes but the million dollar question you have yet to tackle is - what/who is the alternative? Dai has made a very valid case against Starmer so unless a viable, electable alternative is found we are doomed to the status quo. 

There is an aspect of truth in that most of my posts are criticising Conservative government rather than for a suggested alternative. But they are the ones in charge, after all and I have no party allegiance so if Labour want me to vote for them they should offer some very obvious alternatives. I have already said I want to move away from two party politics and FPTP to allow "minority" parties greater say at the table. This is the alternative I prefer and I believe are the main factors responsible for resulting in the current situation, that is with only a choice of two parties to form an absolute majority we are the mercy of their internal politics which we have no influence over. Public opinion over which of the two to vote for is easily influenced. 

Your post I think suggests you want Labour to have more voteable policies to offer a real alternative, which I also agree is needed at present, but I don't think a two party system with FPTP works at all so for me this isn't the answer at all at it would simply continue the unviable status quo and people such as SA14 will remain in their cynical "they're all as bad as each other" "this lot just blame the previous lot for everything" and then not vote because no-one is representing their interests and they know, ultimately, their vote barely matters. A view I actually identify with. So improving Labour's policies isn't the answer at all for me, as that is solely removing the Conservatives from power. Even though I am in favour of this for my own political opinions, it is only a short-term solution. The thing FPTP is good for is giving absolute majorities and where has that got us? Illegal wars, corruption and the UK going rogue. 

Enough people here vote for something different: Green, Lib Dem, UKIP, yet their votes are rendered useless in almost all of the country. Arguably only the SNP have made any real impact and Plaid have had a few seats I suppose, but the end result of this is to give the Conservatives an easier route to overall power. 

Then, having an unelected second chamber is ridiculous and the thought that the current government, whoever they may be, can decide who to put in it is utterly medieval. I mean Ian Botham is a Lord FFS.

Finally, a form of written constitution also is needed to prevent illegal actions by ministers and the prime minister. 

So there we go, as an alternative to what we have now I propose complete electoral reform.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RR1972 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 June 2021 at 11:35am
Originally posted by Dai Guevara Dai Guevara wrote:

Starmer did his best to expel Corbyn and other left politicians from the Labour party (including Jews!!!) supposedly for being anti-semitic when all they were doing was criticising the behaviour of the Israeli government for their behaviour toward Palestinians in territory illegally occupied by Israel. How anyone can consider Starmer honest and principled after this deceitful trick to try to rid the party of those who hold a genuine desire to lessen the vast inequalities in society amazes me. -
But don't expect the right-wing media, (who they are trying so hard to appease) to highlight this, as they are equally keen to rid the press /airwaves of ideas that might spoil the great benefits they have enjoyed under the current regime and those who would be happy to imitate it if elected.
 corbyn was left leaning and took labour to a record defeat. So why would say a rlb a burgon or any other left leaner be any succesful, most of the high profile left leaning labour mps are not only unpopular but pretty useless tbh
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RR1972 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 June 2021 at 11:39am
Originally posted by aber-fan aber-fan wrote:

Originally posted by roy munster roy munster wrote:

Originally posted by The Predator The Predator wrote:

Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

That can’t be true in all areas otherwise wards like bolsover and hartlepool wouldn’t be tory wins. The stats don’t add up i think it’s the “shy tory” syndrome kicking in
Unfortunately labour believe that what they read on Twitter by far left idiots is what the general population think, labour need to get away from believing the views on twitter are the views of the majority

Twitter is only effective when a campaign goes viral for a good cause like jo whiley and vaccines for people with learning disabilities. 

If only.

I was reading only yesterday about a Twitter mob ganging up on an author to change a sentence in a book she'd written because of some extremely far-fetched interpretation that it was in some way anti-semitic. Mob rule - and in this case, definitely not in a good cause. 

twitter is full of do gooding loons, the english cricketer banned for posting silly tweets 9 years ago, some people now want him banned for life . Morons
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dr_martinov Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 June 2021 at 12:02pm
Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

Originally posted by Dai Guevara Dai Guevara wrote:

Starmer did his best to expel Corbyn and other left politicians from the Labour party (including Jews!!!) supposedly for being anti-semitic when all they were doing was criticising the behaviour of the Israeli government for their behaviour toward Palestinians in territory illegally occupied by Israel. How anyone can consider Starmer honest and principled after this deceitful trick to try to rid the party of those who hold a genuine desire to lessen the vast inequalities in society amazes me. -
But don't expect the right-wing media, (who they are trying so hard to appease) to highlight this, as they are equally keen to rid the press /airwaves of ideas that might spoil the great benefits they have enjoyed under the current regime and those who would be happy to imitate it if elected.
 corbyn was left leaning and took labour to a record defeat. So why would say a rlb a burgon or any other left leaner be any succesful, most of the high profile left leaning labour mps are not only unpopular but pretty useless tbh

I really liked McDonnell and thought their manifesto had loads of sensible ideas in it. Corbyn I never really had any opinion on.

I think I've given up when watching the Hartlepool results and the winning Tory candidate saying "I've got loads of fantastic policies lined up and when I know what they are, I'll let you know" (or something like that). I seriously have no idea what people are voting for in truth.

It is slightly unfair towards the Conservatives because they essentially are forced to lie, because their policies are public spending cuts, tax relief for the rich and pro-business relationships, often to their mates. Inherently unfavourable policies that they have to hide from the majority of the voting public somehow. So to gain and retain power they have become very, very good at doing this.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 June 2021 at 12:19pm
Originally posted by dr_martinov dr_martinov wrote:

Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

Originally posted by Dai Guevara Dai Guevara wrote:

Starmer did his best to expel Corbyn and other left politicians from the Labour party (including Jews!!!) supposedly for being anti-semitic when all they were doing was criticising the behaviour of the Israeli government for their behaviour toward Palestinians in territory illegally occupied by Israel. How anyone can consider Starmer honest and principled after this deceitful trick to try to rid the party of those who hold a genuine desire to lessen the vast inequalities in society amazes me. -
But don't expect the right-wing media, (who they are trying so hard to appease) to highlight this, as they are equally keen to rid the press /airwaves of ideas that might spoil the great benefits they have enjoyed under the current regime and those who would be happy to imitate it if elected.
 corbyn was left leaning and took labour to a record defeat. So why would say a rlb a burgon or any other left leaner be any succesful, most of the high profile left leaning labour mps are not only unpopular but pretty useless tbh

I really liked McDonnell and thought their manifesto had loads of sensible ideas in it. Corbyn I never really had any opinion on.

I think I've given up when watching the Hartlepool results and the winning Tory candidate saying "I've got loads of fantastic policies lined up and when I know what they are, I'll let you know" (or something like that). I seriously have no idea what people are voting for in truth.

It is slightly unfair towards the Conservatives because they essentially are forced to lie, because their policies are public spending cuts, tax relief for the rich and pro-business relationships, often to their mates. Inherently unfavourable policies that they have to hide from the majority of the voting public somehow. So to gain and retain power they have become very, very good at doing this.

Therein lies the rub Dr. M - the conservative machine is expert at mobilising support. The Labour machine is not as efficient & is split between "hard" left policies and more centrist leanings. I agree with the need for total political reform along the lines of PR but in all honesty believe that, in my lifetime at least, my best bet is for the labour party to unite behind a left leaning politician who really does believe in policies which support the most vulnerable in our society.

A candidate who could emerge in time is Andy Burnham, current major of Greater Manchester, whose stock will have risen during the covid crisis for his no nonsense leadership. Now I do not know a huge amount about Mr Burnham and skeletons may well emerge but he appears to have some of the minerals for the job. One big plus is that he appears electable. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dr_martinov Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 June 2021 at 12:35pm
I'd agree he comes across well. Labour have to show a more united front as there's too many internal power struggles and beaten candidates or previous leaders should back the new leader or shut up if they ever want to see their party in power again. It really damages Labour as a party people are willing to vote for plus encourages things like purges or selection based on loyalty only which, as we see for the Conservatives, does not result in getting quality onto the front bench. As you point out, Labour isn't offering any real alternative whatsoever at the moment, at UK Government level at least.

Just as well to say I'm sure there are some very decent Conservative MPs and voters who genuinely want what's best for the UK and its population. I can deal with political differences in opinion but the corruption, lying and lack of ethics is my main issue. At least we live in a country where we can post these views without getting locked up as well!

Think I'll give it a break for today to keep the blood pressure down. Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SospanMawr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 June 2021 at 1:07pm
Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

Originally posted by aber-fan aber-fan wrote:

Originally posted by roy munster roy munster wrote:

Originally posted by The Predator The Predator wrote:

Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

That can’t be true in all areas otherwise wards like bolsover and hartlepool wouldn’t be tory wins. The stats don’t add up i think it’s the “shy tory” syndrome kicking in
Unfortunately labour believe that what they read on Twitter by far left idiots is what the general population think, labour need to get away from believing the views on twitter are the views of the majority

Twitter is only effective when a campaign goes viral for a good cause like jo whiley and vaccines for people with learning disabilities. 

If only.

I was reading only yesterday about a Twitter mob ganging up on an author to change a sentence in a book she'd written because of some extremely far-fetched interpretation that it was in some way anti-semitic. Mob rule - and in this case, definitely not in a good cause. 

twitter is full of do gooding loons, the english cricketer banned for posting silly tweets 9 years ago, some people now want him banned for life . Morons
Think calling openly racist tweets, tweets about Gary Speed’s suicide and tweets mocking disabled people  “silly” is in slightly poor taste.

He’s been suspended whilst they investigate further. You can’t blame them at all if they don’t want someone with a history of comments like that representing them.
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