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scarlet96 View Drop Down
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    Posted: 13 February 2012 at 12:09pm
Over the last few weeks I have become baffled by the refs interpretation of the breakdown:
  • I have seen players jackle the ball appropriately and still get pinged for it 
  • I have seen refs penalise players for not releasing the tackled player when they have 
The list goes on and on !!  

All I am asking is what are the laws at the breakdown because I feel some refs have no clue as to what is going on and what is right and wrong and if refs have no clue how will the supporters know any better !!

Many Thanks, 
Scarlet96 !!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KID A Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 February 2012 at 12:13pm
Also, "in the side" has become the new "crooked feed". Getting penalised just once every 20 or 30 times it's done.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scarletman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 February 2012 at 12:19pm
Originally posted by scarlet96 scarlet96 wrote:

Over the last few weeks I have become baffled by the refs interpretation of the breakdown:
  • I have seen players jackle the ball appropriately and still get pinged for it 
  • I have seen refs penalise players for not releasing the tackled player when they have 
The list goes on and on !!  

All I am asking is what are the laws at the breakdown because I feel some refs have no clue as to what is going on and what is right and wrong and if refs have no clue how will the supporters know any better !!

Many Thanks, 
Scarlet96 !!

To answer your questions, I have to ask one myself, as this is the MOST complicated area of the modern game ...
  1. What is your interpretation of "APPROPRIATELY" ?


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scarlet96 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scarlet96 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 February 2012 at 12:22pm
Originally posted by scarletman scarletman wrote:

Originally posted by scarlet96 scarlet96 wrote:

Over the last few weeks I have become baffled by the refs interpretation of the breakdown:
  • I have seen players jackle the ball appropriately and still get pinged for it 
  • I have seen refs penalise players for not releasing the tackled player when they have 
The list goes on and on !!  

All I am asking is what are the laws at the breakdown because I feel some refs have no clue as to what is going on and what is right and wrong and if refs have no clue how will the supporters know any better !!

Many Thanks, 
Scarlet96 !!

To answer your questions, I have to ask one myself, as this is the MOST complicated area of the modern game ...
  1. What is your interpretation of "APPROPRIATELY" ?


well by:
  • completing a tackle 
  • releasing the tackled player 
  • before ruck is called staying on there feet at stealing the ball 
  • and still getting pinged 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scarletman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 February 2012 at 12:22pm
Originally posted by KID A KID A wrote:

Also, "in the side" has become the new "crooked feed". Getting penalised just once every 20 or 30 times it's done.


Hot topic at Referee Societies worldwide !

I fully agree, you should have been sat in the MS yesterday, I was in a block of 11 Referees & Assessors & we were all screaming !! The problem is that to apply this law 100% every time, a Referee needs four sets of eyes !
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote haydn_davies Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 February 2012 at 12:24pm
Just to add my views on this, I have seem unpteen times this weekend the first player to the breakdown going for the ball, getting his hands on the ball, opposition player comes in to try and push him off the ball - thereby creating a ruck (correct Scarletman?), 1st player still got hands on the ball and on his feet only for the ref to blow the whistle and award a penalty against the 1st man for handling in the ruck even though tackled player on the floor wasn't releasing the ball for him to pick it up!! Wacko
 
And don't get me started on the players flying into rucks from nigh-on 90 degrees!!! Dead
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scarletman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 February 2012 at 12:28pm
Originally posted by scarlet96 scarlet96 wrote:

Originally posted by scarletman scarletman wrote:

Originally posted by scarlet96 scarlet96 wrote:

Over the last few weeks I have become baffled by the refs interpretation of the breakdown:
  • I have seen players jackle the ball appropriately and still get pinged for it 
  • I have seen refs penalise players for not releasing the tackled player when they have 
The list goes on and on !!  

All I am asking is what are the laws at the breakdown because I feel some refs have no clue as to what is going on and what is right and wrong and if refs have no clue how will the supporters know any better !!

Many Thanks, 
Scarlet96 !!

To answer your questions, I have to ask one myself, as this is the MOST complicated area of the modern game ...
  1. What is your interpretation of "APPROPRIATELY" ?


well by:
  • completing a tackle 
  • releasing the tackled player 
  • before ruck is called staying on there feet at stealing the ball 
  • and still getting pinged 


I wouldn't ping that !

but I assume the Tackler gets back to his feet & gets hands on the ball before Ruck is called ?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scarlet96 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 February 2012 at 12:29pm
Originally posted by scarletman scarletman wrote:

Originally posted by scarlet96 scarlet96 wrote:

Originally posted by scarletman scarletman wrote:

Originally posted by scarlet96 scarlet96 wrote:

Over the last few weeks I have become baffled by the refs interpretation of the breakdown:
  • I have seen players jackle the ball appropriately and still get pinged for it 
  • I have seen refs penalise players for not releasing the tackled player when they have 
The list goes on and on !!  

All I am asking is what are the laws at the breakdown because I feel some refs have no clue as to what is going on and what is right and wrong and if refs have no clue how will the supporters know any better !!

Many Thanks, 
Scarlet96 !!

To answer your questions, I have to ask one myself, as this is the MOST complicated area of the modern game ...
  1. What is your interpretation of "APPROPRIATELY" ?


well by:
  • completing a tackle 
  • releasing the tackled player 
  • before ruck is called staying on there feet at stealing the ball 
  • and still getting pinged 


I wouldn't ping that !

but I assume the Tackler gets back to his feet & gets hands on the ball before Ruck is called ?

Thanks for the help just seems to me some refs have no idea how to ref the breakdown 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scarletman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 February 2012 at 12:34pm

The Tackle Law in Full

15.1 WHERE CAN A TACKLE TAKE PLACE

A tackle can only take place in the field of play.

15.2 WHEN A TACKLE CANNOT TAKE PLACE

When the ball carrier is held by one opponent and a team-mate of the ball carrier binds on to that ball carrier, a maul has been formed and a tackle cannot take place.

15.3 BROUGHT TO THE GROUND DEFINED

(a) If the ball carrier has one knee or both knees on the ground, that player has been ‘brought to ground’.
(b) If the ball carrier is sitting on the ground, or on top of another player on the ground the ball carrier has been ‘brought to ground’.

15.4 THE TACKLER

(a) When a player tackles an opponent and they both go to ground, the tackler must immediately release the tackled player.
Sanction: Penalty kick 

(b) The tackler must immediately get up or move away from the tackled player and from the ball at once.
Sanction: Penalty kick 

(c) The tackler must get up before playing the ball and then may play the ball from any direction.
Sanction: Penalty kick 

15.5 THE TACKLED PLAYER

(a) A tackled player must not lie on, over, or near the ball to prevent opponents from gaining possession of it, and must try to make the ball available immediately so that play can continue.
Sanction: Penalty kick  

(b) A tackled player must immediately pass the ball or release it. That player must also get up or move away from it at once.
Sanction: Penalty kick  

(c) A tackled player may release the ball by putting it on the ground in any direction, provided this is done immediately.
Sanction: Penalty kick 

(d) A tackled player may release the ball by pushing it along the ground in any direction except forward, provided this is done immediately.
Sanction: Penalty kick

(e) If opposition players who are on their feet attempt to play the ball, the tackled player must release the ball.
Sanction: Penalty kick 

(f) If a tackled player’s momentum carries the player into the in-goal, the player can score a try or make a touch down. 

(g) If a player is tackled near the goal line, that player may immediately reach out and ground the ball on or over the goal line to score a try or make a touch down. 


15.6 OTHER PLAYERS

(a) After a tackle, all other players must be on their feet when they play the ball. Players are on their feet if no other part of their body is supported by the ground or players on the ground.
Sanction: Penalty kick  

Exception: Ball goes into the in-goal. After a tackle near the goal line, if the ball has been released and has gone into the in-goal any player, including a player on the ground, may ground the ball.

(b) After a tackle any players on their feet may attempt to gain possession by taking the ball from the ball carrier’s possession.

(c) Players in opposition to the ball carrier who remain on their feet who bring the ball carrier to ground so that the player is tackled must release the ball and the ball carrier. Those players may then play the ball providing they are on their feet and do so from behind the ball and from directly behind the tackled player or a tackler closest to those players’ goal line.
Sanction: Penalty kick

(d) At a tackle or near to a tackle, other players who play the ball must do so from behind the ball and from directly behind the tackled player or the tackler closest to those players’ goal line.
Sanction: Penalty kick 

(e) Any player who gains possession of the ball at the tackle must play the ball immediately by moving away or passing or kicking the ball.
Sanction: Penalty kick

(f) Any player who first gains possession of the ball must not go to the ground at the tackle or near to it unless tackled by an opposition player.
Sanction: Penalty kick

(g) Any player who first gains possession of the ball at the tackle or near to it may be tackled by an opposition player providing that player does so from behind the ball and from directly behind the tackled player or the tackler closest to that player’s goal line.
Sanction: Penalty kick 

(h) After a tackle, any player lying on the ground must not prevent an opponent from getting possession of the ball.
Sanction: Penalty kick 

(i) After a tackle, any player on the ground must not tackle an opponent or try to tackle an opponent.
Sanction: Penalty kick

(j) When a tackled player reaches out to ground the ball on or over the goal line to score a try, an opponent may pull the ball from the player’s possession, but must not kick or attempt to kick the ball.
Sanction: Penalty kick


15.7 FORBIDDEN PRACTICES

(a) No player may prevent the tackled player from passing the ball.
Sanction: Penalty kick 

(b) No player may prevent the tackled player from releasing the ball and getting up or moving away from it.
Sanction: Penalty kick 

(c) No player may fall on or over the players lying on the ground after a tackle with the ball between or near to them.
Sanction: Penalty kick 

(d) Players on their feet must not charge or obstruct an opponent who is not near the ball.
Sanction: Penalty kick 

(e) Danger may arise if a tackled player fails to release the ball or move away from it immediately, or if that player is prevented from so doing. If either of these happens the referee awards a penalty kick immediately.
Sanction: Penalty kick

15.8 DOUBT ABOUT FAILURE TO COMPLY

If the ball becomes unplayable at a tackle and there is doubt about which player did not conform to Law, the referee orders a scrum immediately with the throw-in by the team that was moving forward prior to the stoppage or, if no team was moving forward, by the attacking team.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KID A Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 February 2012 at 12:45pm
Originally posted by scarletman scarletman wrote:



I fully agree, you should have been sat in the MS yesterday


I was!


Quote The problem is that to apply this law 100% every time, a Referee needs four sets of eyes !


I disagree. There have been countless times where a referee has simply ignoed a player go in the side right infront of him. He can only give what he sees. Fair enough. But they should be seeing a lot more when it is happening right infront of them.

Also, the linesmen don't seem help the referee on this. Same old story.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ap sior Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 February 2012 at 4:51pm
I felt that on a number of occasions yesterday the first player got hands on the ball before any other players arrived. had the ball been released by the tackled player then there would have been many more turnovers. However the tackled player was allowed to hold on until support came in and drove the jackler off the ball.
 
I felt that the same was true in our game against Glasgow.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote haydn_davies Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 February 2012 at 5:12pm
Originally posted by ap sior ap sior wrote:

I felt that on a number of occasions yesterday the first player got hands on the ball before any other players arrived. had the ball been released by the tackled player then there would have been many more turnovers. However the tackled player was allowed to hold on until support came in and drove the jackler off the ball.
 
I felt that the same was true in our game against Glasgow.
ClapClapClapClap
 
That's the point that I was saying to Scarletman!!
 
What is it with refs - sometimes the tackled player has to release the ball IMMIDEATELY or he will get pinged, while on other occasions he (the tackled player on the floor) can hold onto the ball for a few seconds when the defender has got his hands on the ball, in order for the teammates of the tackled player to create the ruck!!
 
WHERE IS THE CONSISTENCY?? AngryAngry
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SA14 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 February 2012 at 11:05pm
When I saw the topic title and saw 96 had started it I feared the worst.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wizard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 February 2012 at 12:41am
Maybe they should have a refs cam for everyone to watch 1 game from the refs view and then see what he sees........
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dr_martinov Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 February 2012 at 9:17am
Originally posted by haydn_davies haydn_davies wrote:

Originally posted by ap sior ap sior wrote:

I felt that on a number of occasions yesterday the first player got hands on the ball before any other players arrived. had the ball been released by the tackled player then there would have been many more turnovers. However the tackled player was allowed to hold on until support came in and drove the jackler off the ball.
 
I felt that the same was true in our game against Glasgow.
ClapClapClapClap
 
That's the point that I was saying to Scarletman!!
 
What is it with refs - sometimes the tackled player has to release the ball IMMIDEATELY or he will get pinged, while on other occasions he (the tackled player on the floor) can hold onto the ball for a few seconds when the defender has got his hands on the ball, in order for the teammates of the tackled player to create the ruck!!
 
WHERE IS THE CONSISTENCY?? AngryAngry

In most games, there's usually a few mini-breaks which come as a result of players "not held" so the focus is on the tackler to make sure the tackled stays tackled to prevent these. If refs blow too quickly, then there will be more of these situations. And if they don't, then you have the ball wrapped up by the tackler. It's not an easy situation.

I'm not even sure the players know the rules with breakdowns and simply do whatever the hell they want and stop when the ref tells them to. Should a ref even be saying things like "you, hands off!" in the first place? If it's illegal, then blow for it. If it happens too much, card for it. Players will soon stop when they're 15 points and one man down and their team is losing on a regular basis. The ref is more like a coach at times, trying to teach the players what's legal or not. And so then the interpretation of the particular ref comes into play and this is why we have no consistency and refs who think they're the most important person on the pitch because, quite simply, they are.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scarletman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 February 2012 at 9:38am
Originally posted by wizard wizard wrote:

Maybe they should have a refs cam for everyone to watch 1 game from the refs view and then see what he sees........

Hmmmmm .....
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