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Brexit explained |
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GPR - Rochester ![]() Veteran ![]() ![]() Joined: 01 December 2014 Location: Rhydcymerau Status: Online Points: 17173 |
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Two things spring to mind Rob - the 65% - 35% whopper you state is in fact a poll is it not? 4 weeks before the Brexit vote the polls showed 60-40 in favour of remain. Welcome to this debate by the way. Much has been made over countless pages since Brexit of leavers not having been correctly informed. I am fascinated by what these facts are - I based my decision on a set of facts that are as relevant today as they were then so I would be very interested in what you mean. By the way please don't mention the bloody bus again.
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Kentexile ![]() Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: 24 August 2013 Location: Kent Status: Offline Points: 423 |
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The Brexit slogan which sold it to me was “vote leave and things will only be a little bit more rubbish than they are now.”
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Oracle ![]() Veteran ![]() ![]() Joined: 19 September 2022 Location: North pole Status: Offline Points: 3606 |
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Of course..I shall remove the statement regarding we don't have a deal with Europe , but the rest of the statement is correct (I believe) ...Is this okay
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GPR - Rochester ![]() Veteran ![]() ![]() Joined: 01 December 2014 Location: Rhydcymerau Status: Online Points: 17173 |
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I hate to nit pick about facts Oracle but what the hell now that we are good mates.
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Oracle ![]() Veteran ![]() ![]() Joined: 19 September 2022 Location: North pole Status: Offline Points: 3606 |
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Yes the figures were quoted on the radio , I agree with you that we are now on the front benches together but you have to be beware of the back benchers especially the ones with numbers and letters in their names
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Rob o'r Bont ![]() Veteran ![]() ![]() Dr. Optimist Joined: 03 May 2008 Location: Bont Status: Offline Points: 14279 |
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![]() To answer your question, I think the main fact that people are disgruntled about is that they were all told that things would be better after Brexit but in fact they are worse.
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In a world where you can be anything – Be Kind.
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Eastern outpost ![]() Rambler ![]() ![]() Joined: 13 March 2012 Location: South Suffolk Status: Offline Points: 20685 |
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On my sole visit to y Parc in February which saw a wonderful reprise of how we used to play rugby every week, once, for the 42-14 win over Edinburgh, I can reveal that one staunch Brexit proponent admitted that we would have been better off remaining in the EU.
No water boarding, although the wine followed by the Guinness over quite a long time might be a nod towards such tactics, was involved.
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In a world where you can be anything – Be Kind.
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GPR - Rochester ![]() Veteran ![]() ![]() Joined: 01 December 2014 Location: Rhydcymerau Status: Online Points: 17173 |
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I love that Hotel California comment Rob. I can totally see that we are worse off now generally than we were before Brexit - I get it. My explanation though would place the reasons at the door of the pandemic, fuel crisis and shambolic governance rather than leaving the EU. At the time of leaving even with a steady tide it was going to take a number of years before the financial benefits would show through to GDP; the actual choppy waters have, of course, lengthened that timescale considerably. If I had had a crystal ball which would have predicted the above circumstances I think I would have probably chosen to vote for steady as she goes rather than leave in all honesty.
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Eastern outpost ![]() Rambler ![]() ![]() Joined: 13 March 2012 Location: South Suffolk Status: Offline Points: 20685 |
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In a world where you can be anything – Be Kind.
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Eastern outpost ![]() Rambler ![]() ![]() Joined: 13 March 2012 Location: South Suffolk Status: Offline Points: 20685 |
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On the passport control hoohah at Dover last weekend, just wait to when the ETIAS system is introduced.
It requires every passenger to get out of their vehicle and give fingerprints and be photographed. There’s a fee, of course. Can’t remember the exact details as its introduction has been postponed twice, maybe more. iirc, the ETIAS last for 3 years. However, the havoc it will create when folk are getting them for the first time at the point of departure will be far worse than we’ve seen recently. It’s great putting advance passenger info on the sites that allow/require this. If only something like that can be done for this then it would be great. However, how can you be sure to get the right fingerprints etc other than by a personal appearance somewhere? The current visa system requires all applicants to turn up at Wandsworth, Manchester or Edinburgh with lots of info and proofs of various things - place to stay, health cover (a GHIC card) and adequate finances. Those are for visas of 6 months or 12 and other visas for studying or working off different lengths. No politicians would remind those in the queues that its what they voted for.
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In a world where you can be anything – Be Kind.
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GPR - Rochester ![]() Veteran ![]() ![]() Joined: 01 December 2014 Location: Rhydcymerau Status: Online Points: 17173 |
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One of the most important attributes for any sports person or indeed politician is balance. Not many great rugby backs, footballers, cricketers, tennis players or golfers would have achieved that status without it let alone jockeys. The ability to see others views and formulate a consensus is fundamental to good politics. Unfortunately we in Britain have been starved of politicians with this attribute for far too long.
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John ![]() Veteran ![]() Joined: 15 August 2004 Status: Offline Points: 4826 |
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What amazes me is that the current government, put there in a wave of "get brexit done", shows so little interest in getting brexit to work for the electorate. The examples are many- from northern Ireland to the Dover queues. Add in problems that brexit was promised to, but was never going to, solve like illegal immigration and this will lead to a future referendum, maybe decades in the future but possibly rather sooner.
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GPR - Rochester ![]() Veteran ![]() ![]() Joined: 01 December 2014 Location: Rhydcymerau Status: Online Points: 17173 |
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Inept & totally lacking foresight & ideas drowning in their self made quagmire of corruption, sleeze & perpetual self preservation of self profiteering.
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dr_martinov ![]() Veteran ![]() ![]() Joined: 06 August 2005 Location: Tycoch Status: Offline Points: 13225 |
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It's due to cynical electioneering from Johnson (a proven liar who many people were willing to vote in as PM) et al. in constant "campaign mode". Elected off the back of Brexit, and backed by most of our media, they polarised the issue to discredit any actual discussion; any criticism or proposal that differed to theirs was labelled a "betrayal" by people "who wanted to reverse Brexit" and so on. There were multiple directions post-Brexit could have taken but this ended up being an internal power struggle in the ruling Government who were also maintaining their own power by describing themselves as the only party in favour of, and able to deliver, Brexit. Despite my view it was an error at the time, where I viewed the benefits of EU membership outweighing the cons, nothing has appeared to convince me otherwise as essentially no new benefits have appeared. My view is in part due to that deliberate polarisation above combined with the selection of Johnson as their leader, the Conservatives have ensured public trust in politicians is at an all time low so I wouldn't trust anything describing new deals as "world leading" and so on; this is just meaningless campaign talk yet again. You reap what you sow. But we can at least agree it has been mismanaged to an extreme level by a group of incompetent and corrupt politicians.
Edited by dr_martinov - 06 April 2023 at 10:31am |
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aber-fan ![]() Veteran ![]() ![]() Joined: 25 October 2004 Location: Wales Status: Offline Points: 18252 |
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Well, Hallelujah! I never thought I'd live long enough to read those words. Although you blame the downturn in the UK's economy on other factors, IMHO Brexit was a major contributor to how badly things have gone (I know those other factors played a not insignificant part too). The best way to judge that is to compare the UK economy with those of the larger EU countries - the UK has done significantly worse, even though Germany (for example) is far more dependent on Russian gas and oil than the UK.
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“You cannot reason a man out of what he never reasoned himself into.” (Jonathan Swift)
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aber-fan ![]() Veteran ![]() ![]() Joined: 25 October 2004 Location: Wales Status: Offline Points: 18252 |
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Well, you are not telling the whole story though Roy. I assume this 'deal' is the one negotiated by Boris Johnson - who then, two years later, threatened to tear it up himself! "Boris Johnson on Monday defied a chorus of criticism and published legislation to rip up his 2020 Brexit deal with the EU, insisting there was “no other way” of protecting the peace process in Northern Ireland." (Financial Times, June 13 2022)
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“You cannot reason a man out of what he never reasoned himself into.” (Jonathan Swift)
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