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Brexit: the results

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ladram View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ladram Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 January 2021 at 7:38pm
Originally posted by aber-fan aber-fan wrote:

I see that 'supporters of Brexit' have so far been unable to post any good news stories relating to the event.

Not even the £350 million a week for the NHS? No?

So, in the absence of any good news from Brexiters, I'll help them out with one or two: here's the first - 


Boris Johnson's dad has applied for French citizenship. The fewer Johnsons in the UK, the better - aas far as I'm concerned.

It will be even better news when Boris follows suit.
that's because a lot of leave supporters found from farage that it was a lie,it was the only reason i voted leave and looking at the nhs it was a damn good reason so it's a bit churlish to bring that up as you and i know that it is not relevant,now.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SA14 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 January 2021 at 9:52pm
Well we had two referendums so it is what it is now. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dr_martinov Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 January 2021 at 8:11am
Originally posted by SA14 SA14 wrote:

Well we had two referendums so it is what it is now. 

How funny, I guess that means leave voters didn't respect the results of the first referendum. I thought that it was anti-democratic to ask for a second referendum?

Obviously I'm just on a wind up. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 January 2021 at 8:12am
Originally posted by ladram ladram wrote:

Originally posted by aber-fan aber-fan wrote:

I see that 'supporters of Brexit' have so far been unable to post any good news stories relating to the event.

Not even the £350 million a week for the NHS? No?

So, in the absence of any good news from Brexiters, I'll help them out with one or two: here's the first - 


Boris Johnson's dad has applied for French citizenship. The fewer Johnsons in the UK, the better - aas far as I'm concerned.

It will be even better news when Boris follows suit.
that's because a lot of leave supporters found from farage that it was a lie,it was the only reason i voted leave and looking at the nhs it was a damn good reason so it's a bit churlish to bring that up as you and i know that it is not relevant,now.

I am reminded Nigel by some of the comments on this thread about my time playing cricket with a Yorkshire bowler in sunny Zambia. After a rather fortuitous, shall I say, LBW decision against one of our fiercest rivals the crest fallen batsmen trudged back to the pavilion muttering many expletives to my bowler friend along the way. The bowler took it all on the chin until he crossed the rope and advised the batsmen to " look in the f...ing book" which indeed showed he was out. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dr_martinov Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 January 2021 at 8:18am
In a cricket analogy you're going with then Brexit one of the worst match-fixing scandals around.

Won't post again here unless facts but it's too soon for me to judge pros or cons.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 January 2021 at 8:27am
Originally posted by dr_martinov dr_martinov wrote:

In a cricket analogy you're going with then Brexit one of the worst match-fixing scandals around.

Won't post again here unless facts but it's too soon for me to judge pros or cons.

Careful there Dr M - the fact police are watching. Confused
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 January 2021 at 9:06am
Originally posted by ladram ladram wrote:

Originally posted by aber-fan aber-fan wrote:

I see that 'supporters of Brexit' have so far been unable to post any good news stories relating to the event.

Not even the £350 million a week for the NHS? No?

So, in the absence of any good news from Brexiters, I'll help them out with one or two: here's the first - 


Boris Johnson's dad has applied for French citizenship. The fewer Johnsons in the UK, the better - aas far as I'm concerned.

It will be even better news when Boris follows suit.
that's because a lot of leave supporters found from farage that it was a lie,it was the only reason i voted leave and looking at the nhs it was a damn good reason so it's a bit churlish to bring that up as you and i know that it is not relevant,now.

You make an excellent point Nigel. I defy anyone, from any walk of life whether PHD's or not, to try to give a balanced assessment of the effects of Brexit on the UK economy over the next 5-10 years. The covid pandemic has completely overtaken events and made any comparisons seem pretty frivolous. Economies around the World will be feeling the negative effects for decades.

For me Brexit has gone, whether we are still waiting to negotiate aspects post brexit or not - it is pretty irrelevant in the grand scheme of things. Our 100% concentration now should be on pulling together to defeat this killer and try to build a fairer more equal society from the rubble of our post pandemic economy. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dai Guevara Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 January 2021 at 4:21pm
If you get your news from the BBC or the Guardian you must not expect anything positive about Brexit, Trump, Russia, China, Iran, Syria, Cuba, Venezuela whereas anyone that has anything negative to say about them will be welcomed and allowed evidence free speculation, which is then quietly forgotten if proved baseless (eg Trump's Russiagate nonsense which was taken seriously enough by his accusers and investigated in the Mueller Report which found zero evidence). BBC World service probably mentioned the exoneration quietly at 3 am but compared to the insinuations beforehand it was virtually inaudible.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roy munster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 January 2021 at 4:31pm
I dont know why more people arent concerned that twitter amazon and google are simply shutting down their opposition taking them offline and decimating free speech. Look forward to a future of news networks owned by these tax dodging corporations paying lip service to real news and simply spewing out corporate propoganda 24/7
ROYMOND MUNTER MBE (FOR SERVICES TO THE COMBOVER)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ladram Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 January 2021 at 5:11pm
Originally posted by roy munster roy munster wrote:

I dont know why more people arent concerned that twitter amazon and google are simply shutting down their opposition taking them offline and decimating free speech. Look forward to a future of news networks owned by these tax dodging corporations paying lip service to real news and simply spewing out corporate propoganda 24/7
You need to get out more roy.LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SA14 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 January 2021 at 10:44pm
Originally posted by dr_martinov dr_martinov wrote:

Originally posted by SA14 SA14 wrote:

Well we had two referendums so it is what it is now. 

How funny, I guess that means leave voters didn't respect the results of the first referendum. I thought that it was anti-democratic to ask for a second referendum?

Obviously I'm just on a wind up. 

The general election kind of underlined the fact the referendum was the correct result. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jones2004 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 January 2021 at 11:02pm
Originally posted by SA14 SA14 wrote:

Originally posted by dr_martinov dr_martinov wrote:

Originally posted by SA14 SA14 wrote:

Well we had two referendums so it is what it is now. 

How funny, I guess that means leave voters didn't respect the results of the first referendum. I thought that it was anti-democratic to ask for a second referendum?

Obviously I'm just on a wind up. 
The general election kind of underlined the fact the referendum was the correct result. 
In the general election 52% voted for parties that supported a second referendum. Obviously Brexit is done now and I’m not here to moan about it but that statement is simply not true.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aber-fan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 January 2021 at 6:36am
Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Originally posted by ladram ladram wrote:

Originally posted by aber-fan aber-fan wrote:

I see that 'supporters of Brexit' have so far been unable to post any good news stories relating to the event.

Not even the £350 million a week for the NHS? No?

So, in the absence of any good news from Brexiters, I'll help them out with one or two: here's the first - 


Boris Johnson's dad has applied for French citizenship. The fewer Johnsons in the UK, the better - aas far as I'm concerned.

It will be even better news when Boris follows suit.
that's because a lot of leave supporters found from farage that it was a lie,it was the only reason i voted leave and looking at the nhs it was a damn good reason so it's a bit churlish to bring that up as you and i know that it is not relevant,now.

You make an excellent point Nigel. I defy anyone, from any walk of life whether PHD's or not, to try to give a balanced assessment of the effects of Brexit on the UK economy over the next 5-10 years. The covid pandemic has completely overtaken events and made any comparisons seem pretty frivolous. Economies around the World will be feeling the negative effects for decades.


Earlier, you wrote something sensible about a batsman "looking in the book" to see the umpire's decision.

That is what I am doing now - looking in the 'Brexit book' to see the results - no more, no less.

I am still waiting for any Brexiters to post on here a single benefit which they can point to since 1 January 2021.

You voted for it - you now have to own it.

It's true that the COVID disaster will muddy the waters, but I shall try to stick to things which have only happened because of Brexit - such as the vastly increased amount of paperwork for food exporters - and not just fishermen, but meat exporters too:


Some quotes from this BBC report (BTW - the BBC is run by Conservatives these days):

UK meat exporters have claimed post-Brexit customs systems are "not fit for purpose", with goods delayed for hours, sometimes days, at the border.

The British Meat Processor Association said even experienced exporters were struggling with the system.

It said meat exports to the EU were 25% of normal levels for this time of year.

One large French meat importer told the BBC that he and his competitors were starting to look at alternative suppliers in Spain and Ireland.


Nick Allen, chief executive of the British Meat Processor Association, said: "Fundamentally, this is not a system that was designed for a 24/7, just-in-time supply chain.

"The export health certification process was designed for moving containers of frozen meat around the world where you have a bit of leeway on time.

"No matter how much better we get at filling in the forms, it's really not fit for purpose. This is going back to the dark ages in terms of a process really, in this digital age."

He added "It's going to be a problem for quite a time until we move forward and hopefully get a better digital system in place and can make it work a bit better, but until then, we've got to put up with all this paperwork and lorries arriving in Ireland with box files full of paper."

Rizvan Khalid, a lamb exporter based in Shropshire, cannot afford to get the paperwork wrong.

His company, Euro Quality Lambs, exports 70% of its meat to the EU, including France, Germany, Belgium and Portugal. He says what was once a once well-oiled machine now has a spanner in it.

"What used to take us 15 minutes is now taking us three or four hours on average before we can get the paperwork completed for one particular load," he says.

"It's taking them [on the French side] up to six hours to go through the health certificates, to open up the lorry and check the goods.

"All of that is adding time and costs. It's now an extra day before our product gets into the markets of Paris."


Down at the international freight checkpoint in Ashford, near the entrance to the Eurotunnel, customs consultant Steve Cocks gave a downbeat assessment.

"The temporary border post lorry park is full, roads are being closed off and lorries are being sent back to the Covid testing site to hold them there," he said.

"Last week wasn't much to write home about as it was very quiet, but volumes are building and it's just going to get worse. Exports are grinding to a halt and that will affect imports, but if you are a haulier. you don't want to get a lorry stuck on this side of the Channel."

After decades of friction-free trade, there are bound to be teething problems. Indeed, the government predicted that there would be "significant additional disruption" as traders, officials and customers became accustomed to new procedures.

However, some things cannot "bed in" and will become permanent features. HMRC estimates the additional cost to UK business of bog-standard customs declarations alone at £7bn.

When buyers and sellers want to trade, they will find a way, but significant additional cost and complexity is here to stay.


As I said at the start - I'm posting FACTS here. People can make up their own minds, but please read the reports. Don't ignore them in a 'three wise monkeys' way, and pretend this stuff isn't happening - because it is.

“You cannot reason a man out of what he never reasoned himself into.” (Jonathan Swift)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aber-fan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 January 2021 at 7:00am
Originally posted by Dai Guevara Dai Guevara wrote:

If you get your news from the BBC or the Guardian you must not expect anything positive about Brexit, Trump, Russia, China, Iran, Syria, Cuba, Venezuela whereas anyone that has anything negative to say about them will be welcomed and allowed evidence free speculation, which is then quietly forgotten if proved baseless (eg Trump's Russiagate nonsense which was taken seriously enough by his accusers and investigated in the Mueller Report which found zero evidence). BBC World service probably mentioned the exoneration quietly at 3 am but compared to the insinuations beforehand it was virtually inaudible.

I disagree with practically everything you say in this post, and would like to see you stand up your claims, but I don't want to get sidelined by other issues, as I don't have the time or the inclination.Please open a NEW THREAD if you want to discuss those issues in detail.

Just one correction which I feel HAS to be made here - concerning the BBC - since if you are going to make the claim that BBC comments on Brexit can't be trusted, or that the corporation is part of some sort of left-wing plot - I really can't allow that to stand. So, once again, I'll stick to the FACTS. If you find ANYTHING AT ALL in this report which is factually incorrect, please let me know and I'll edit it and post a correction.

Can't say fairer than that, can I?

You write: If you get your news from the BBC... you must not expect anything positive about Brexit...

I really don't know who you THINK runs the BBC nowadays, but in fact it has been in Tory hands for years - not surprising, given that they have been in power since 2010.

For example - the new Chair of the BBC, Richard Sharp, has donated £400,000 to the Tories in recent years. He has worked for the bank Goldman Sachs in a senior role for 23 years. He was Rishi Sunak's boss. He worked with Boris Johnson when he was Mayor of London. 

So what about the director general, then? He must be a dyed-in-the-wool leftie, no? Well... no. He - Tim Davie - is also a Conservative.

All of this information is out there, and Google will find it for you in an instant.

Some quotes on Sharp and Davie, from the Byline Times (you will find exactly the same FACTS reported on very many other news websites):



The newly-appointed Chairman of the BBC has donated more than £400,000 to the Conservative Party since 2001, Electoral Commission records show.

Earlier today, it was announced that former Goldman Sachs banker Richard Sharp is set to be appointed as the chairman of the BBC’s board of directors.

According to the BBC’s Media Editor Amol Rajan, Sharp’s new role “will see him lead negotiations with the Government over the future of the licence fee”.

Sharp spent 23 years working for New York banking giant Goldman Sachs and reportedly oversaw the work of Rishi Sunak, during the now Chancellor’s early career in the finance industry. Latterly, Sharp was on the Bank of England’s Financial Policy Committee for six years until 2019.

It also seems that the new BBC Chairman has made a minor career in the field of Conservative Party fundraising – donating an estimated £416,189 to the party and its politicians since the turn of the century.

It appears as though Sharp’s latest donation to the Conservatives was in 2019, when he gave £2,500 to the Hereford and South Herefordshire branch of the party. From 2008 to 2010, he ploughed a whopping £211,590 into central party coffers.

Sharp has also since 2002 been a director at the Centre for Policy Studies – a right-wing think tank that has published studies calling for the abolition of the licence fee and accusing the BBC of having a left-wing bias.

His appointment follows that of Tim Davie, who was announced as the corporation’s new Director General in September. Davie stood as a councillor for the Conservative Party in 1993 and 1994, and was deputy chairman of the Hammersmith and Fulham Conservatives in the 1990s.



Edited by aber-fan - 16 January 2021 at 7:36am
“You cannot reason a man out of what he never reasoned himself into.” (Jonathan Swift)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aber-fan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 January 2021 at 7:56am
Today's new story on the Brexit effect concerns the effect on expatriates and 'swallows'. 

In the past, with free movement within the EU, it was easy for Brits to move to Spain (say) in retirement, to enjoy cheaper property prices and warmer weather. The 'swallows' would not live there all year, but go to a property for the winter, to enjoy the warmth and save on heating bills. All of this is now seriously compromised under Brexit.

I should point out that, although these people aren't poor, most are by no stretch 'rich' either - many have just been careful with what funds they have.

This is the report I'd like you to consider:


Some quotes: 

Travel to Spain is more complicated now that the new EU-UK trade agreement has come into force. Since 1 January, the UK has been considered as a "third country" to the EU - outside the club. Any newcomers will have to follow a new system.

For any UK citizens arriving now, here are some of the differences.

For tourists, including people who have second homes in the country but haven't taken residency, you can no longer come and go as you please. You can spend up to three months out of every six here.

To be able to live in Spain now, you will need to show proof that you're earning, either through having a contract with a Spanish company, or by proving that you have at least £2,000 (€2,223; $2,705) a month coming into your account.

For a family, it will be much more. You will need to show that you have an extra £500 a month for each member of the family. For example, a family of four will need to prove they earn a yearly salary of at least £42,000.

British driving licences will also need to be changed to Spanish ones.

The last few weeks have seen a frenetic period of adjustment, and change, with people leaving Spain for good, and others replacing them before the rules for residency changed.

"Our removal companies have never been busier. Every removal company across this coast has told our team they've never seen a situation like this," says Michel Euesden from Rochdale. She runs the Euro Weekly newspaper in Fuengirola, a paper that provides news for Brits living here.

"It's the first time in 25 years since we started the paper here that we've seen removal companies fully booked going out and coming back in.

"They are taking the elderly and people who haven't had jobs for a while, because of the Covid situation, back to the UK, and then they're bringing back younger generations with disposable income, and often with an online marketing presence, out here. So the dynamics have completely changed."...


Meanwhile, Eric Anderson is stuck in the UK. The 71-year-old former shipyard worker from Newcastle is one of thousands of so called "swallows" - people with second homes in Spain who spend winter in the sun and return to Britain in the summer.

Spanish Covid rules preventing non-essential travel mean that Eric can't fly out at the moment. When he can, his time will be limited under the new post-Brexit system.

"I feel badly let down. We paid a mortgage for 20 years to have a holiday home and a retirement bolt-hole for the winter. We're limited to just 90 days now, and that's not just for Spain, but anywhere we go in Europe on holiday. Say we cross from Newcastle to the Netherlands, that's counted.

"So you're already being restricted by time to come back into the UK. There's a lot of average working guys that have done exactly what I've done and it's just not going to be possible now. I don't think anyone expected the rug to be pulled from under them so quickly."

Tracy Turnero Sheehan has made her home in the hillside town of Marchena, famous for Flamenco music and olive growing.

She left Hereford 16 years ago, and is now a Spanish resident, running an English language school by Marchena's town square. She tells me over a socially distanced coffee that her life has become much more complicated as a consequence of the new rules.

"My husband Enrique is Spanish, my son Santiago is Spanish and British. If we ever wanted to move back to the UK as a family, say in five years, then I could move back, I imagine Santi could get a British passport.

"But Enrique would need to fit in with the minimum income or the points-based system. Which makes it almost impossible to live in the UK again. Honestly, I feel kind of forgotten about."

There is help for those considered more vulnerable who are seeking residency.

Three charities - Age in Spain, Babelia and the International Organisation for Migration - are offering legal help, or assistance in arranging appointments, for people struggling with the Spanish language, those in remote areas, and people with disabilities.


In total, there are now more than 360,000 British residents registered in Spain, according to official Spanish figures. Back in the offices of Euro Weekly, Michel Euesden predicts there will be a dramatic change to the population dynamic.

"We have traditionally been a community here of expats who are on average 50-plus. Last year it changed, and the average age was 45. If you come over in 12 months, it'll be more like an average age of 35.

"If you're 70 or 80 years old and you don't understand this new system, the new paperwork, the driving licences needing to be switched over, say for example they get ill - what are they going to do? I think a lot of people will go back to the country where they speak the language. You no longer have the best of both worlds, and people can't rely on speaking only English to get by.

"They will be replaced by a younger set of people who can afford to be here."

The stormy weather has finally passed. So too the era of easy travel to Spain. Estate agents tell me that British people used to be the biggest buyers of property on this coast. Not any more.

The Brexit effect has already begun to change the population here, and reshape the future plans of many Brits who want to live abroad.




So - it seems clear that older people will return to the UK, putting extra stress on the NHS and Social Services - and younger taxpayers are replacing them. It's too soon to say what the numbers will be like, but the trend is hardly a positive one for anyone -IMO. (That bit is an OPINION, not a FACT. Time will tell.)

“You cannot reason a man out of what he never reasoned himself into.” (Jonathan Swift)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wil Chips Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 January 2021 at 8:23am
Small check is that the EU have agreed that having a British driving license will remain valid.

I’ve lots of so called ‘ swallow ‘ friends. It’s a bud crash for most of them. Although what happening in Gibraltar could be an interesting outcome. Let’s be clear, Spain is going to take a heck of a hit here too.
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