Brexit

GPR - Rochester wrote: I am afraid here Sospan that you are guilty as others have been of making false statements. You categorically stated that Airbus were taking their investment out of the UK.; That is clearly untrue at this point in time. None of us know what the final deal will be and Airbus' executives, like many others, are being very prudent in making statements which they hope will guide negotiations. You, however, are misusing statements to support your argument. As for costs do you really think that I need an Independent company whose cost I am sure will be an added burden to us EU taxpayers to tell me that a bunch of unelected bureaucrats who move HQ twice a year as a sop to the French government are not totally out of control. When was the last time this group were independently audited. Indeed you have been quite vociferous with regard to Farage who I believe costs EU taxpayers about £180k per annum. What about all the other MEP's from 28 different countries with their snouts in the trough? You clearly think that us UK taxpayers are getting good value for money do you?

 that's rich, you've gone from defending Leave for making " flagrant overstating of financial issues" (rich way to put it) to having a go at me for the same!

SospanMawr wrote: roy munster wrote: SospanMawr wrote: First can I get a direct, reliable source for the £10bn you've quoted there please? Then I'm going to try and work out that ramble.   Right hang on. What you've said is - Things that happened 20 years ago, in one hospital, need to be discussed on a Brexit thread. - You've agreed that the £350m that was plastered very publically and broadly on the side of the bus was at the very least factually incorrect and the actual figure is (apparently) £200m that we "could" spend on the NHS. - Then you say the NHS doesn't deserve any money because it has too much middle management? You say over population is the NHS' fault? Over population where, in the UK or hospitals? Do you know 12.5% of NHS workers are foreign nationals, and over 1500 visa applications for foreign doctors were turned down at the start of this year? [Source: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/nhs-foreign-doctors-how-many-reliant-immigration-theresa-may-brexit-explained-visa-a8383306.html ]   What you haven't said even though I asked - Whether you think it's appropriate for Leave to have lied about something so important with no regard for the voter - What you think of Farage, Rees-Mogg etc investing in the EU not the UK - What you think of the likes of Gove, Boris etc using Brexit as a political piggyback - What you think of thousands of jobs and millions if not billions of pounds of investment moving out of the country in the form of Jaguar Land-Rover and Airbus Started with a personal insult so I wont bother engaging with you I don't see a personal insult at all. But if you don't want to provide a source for your claim or engage in a debate when I've presented facts and asked for some facts back, then that's fine, I understand.

Edited by roy munster - 22 June 2018 at 2:43pm

SospanMawr wrote: roy munster wrote: SospanMawr wrote: roy munster wrote: SospanMawr wrote: First can I get a direct, reliable source for the £10bn you've quoted there please? Then I'm going to try and work out that ramble.   Right hang on. What you've said is - Things that happened 20 years ago, in one hospital, need to be discussed on a Brexit thread. - You've agreed that the £350m that was plastered very publically and broadly on the side of the bus was at the very least factually incorrect and the actual figure is (apparently) £200m that we "could" spend on the NHS. - Then you say the NHS doesn't deserve any money because it has too much middle management? You say over population is the NHS' fault? Over population where, in the UK or hospitals? Do you know 12.5% of NHS workers are foreign nationals, and over 1500 visa applications for foreign doctors were turned down at the start of this year? [Source: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/nhs-foreign-doctors-how-many-reliant-immigration-theresa-may-brexit-explained-visa-a8383306.html ]   What you haven't said even though I asked - Whether you think it's appropriate for Leave to have lied about something so important with no regard for the voter - What you think of Farage, Rees-Mogg etc investing in the EU not the UK - What you think of the likes of Gove, Boris etc using Brexit as a political piggyback - What you think of thousands of jobs and millions if not billions of pounds of investment moving out of the country in the form of Jaguar Land-Rover and Airbus Started with a personal insult so I wont bother engaging with you I don't see a personal insult at all. But if you don't want to provide a source for your claim or engage in a debate when I've presented facts and asked for some facts back, then that's fine, I understand. Read your first sentence, its an insult. You choose to call anyone with different opinions as just rambling, good for you. Its disrespectful. All that does is reduce the debate from a 2 way conversation to cheap insults where you simply regurgitate your same talking points that fit your agenda and you just ignore insult and demean any other opinions or facts. You may as well get a room with yourself Asking someone for a source of a stated fact is an insult? Or do you call the bit where I said your post was a ramble a personal insult? In fact I was commenting on your post, not you personally at all. I have never demeaned your opinion, merely debated it, and if you presented any facts I wouldn't demean those either.

dr_martinov wrote: The recent story was the government pledging to increase spending on the NHS (I think to bring it in line with inflation) but then they said this would come from increased taxes, which confused me. Is that just opportunism from a strong remainer in Hammond or a hint Brexit won't save money or that money saved won't go to the NHS? Are we making too much of Boris' bus when it was simply a gimmick? The news from Airbus was worrying but again, is that just companies playing hardball and seeing an opportunity to manipulate Brexit for their own gain? Too many questions and few answers - which basically sums up how I feel about Brexit so, like this thread, I am mainly just sitting back and watching with an increasing sense of detachment from the country I identify with.

Think it's a bit of both some money from brexit propped up by tax increase. Nobody can say if brexit will be good or bad unless we can travel through to alternate dimensions. What will be will be, the increase of ukip candidates showed how much people aren't happy with the way things were working the only way to have a chance of improving things is through change. Company's leaving isn't any different to company's that left previous to brexit surely? Tata was saved by brexit for the time being. Unemployment down but zero hour contracts to aid with those number and are only good for youngsters living at home. I'm employed by the NHS but people who think it's all public sector are naive of what is actually going on. Agency nurses are becoming more common and you can blame people leaving the NHS to do the same job with £15-20 per hour increase. Far too many managers managing managers in the NHS it's a shambles and if they brought in some successful business managers to fix that I'm sure we'd see a fair some of money freed up to be used on what it needs to be spent on. The list is almost endless really so even though west wales is basically the poorest place in Europe we can still smile and get on with it thinking about next season

dr_martinov wrote: I worry about Wales but then the majority were in favour of Leave, so there you go. Clearly many people didn't think (or know?) the EU was doing anything for them and decided as such.

reesytheexile wrote: Well this is a nice Scarlets  supporters united bonding thread! I am starting a Who is supporting England to win the World Cup thread tomorrow as after all we are all British aren't we?? Or are weu?

that'll cause more riots than Brexit lol

its hard to believe a compromise cant be found between the EU and UK over the customs union or single market , no deal would be mindless on both sides and would harm both sides too