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RR1972 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RR1972 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 March 2024 at 11:45am
Originally posted by dr_martinov dr_martinov wrote:

The Tory government of the last 14 years have two things in their legacy: austerity and Brexit. 

It obviously will spark off paths well-trodden but the above indicate they had little interest in governing, reform or improving lives for the majority. The sole driving force of what they are now is reducing the size of the state, cutting public services and privatising anything they can, to the benefit of themselves and their funders. They are manifestly unfit to govern. All they have are stocking culture wars and divisions in society. Braverman, at the time home secretary, was guilty of hate speech. Ask yourselves just how exactly the UK has got to this and on who's watch. And then watch 10 million people vote for them even knowing all this. 

I am beyond sickened by them and arguments that "they're all as bad as each other" simply aren't true and play into the Conservative strategy. They are a rancid party that feeds off greed, selfishness and now outright racism and hatred. If the UK votes them in again it deserves everything it gets. 
the people voted for brexit, you can bash the tories for lots of things holding a democratic referndum isn’t one of them
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roy munster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 March 2024 at 1:57pm
Have labour proposed renationalising anything? The gas, electric, trains etc ? That would be a good start 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dr_martinov Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 March 2024 at 2:13pm
Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

Originally posted by dr_martinov dr_martinov wrote:

The Tory government of the last 14 years have two things in their legacy: austerity and Brexit. 

It obviously will spark off paths well-trodden but the above indicate they had little interest in governing, reform or improving lives for the majority. The sole driving force of what they are now is reducing the size of the state, cutting public services and privatising anything they can, to the benefit of themselves and their funders. They are manifestly unfit to govern. All they have are stocking culture wars and divisions in society. Braverman, at the time home secretary, was guilty of hate speech. Ask yourselves just how exactly the UK has got to this and on who's watch. And then watch 10 million people vote for them even knowing all this. 

I am beyond sickened by them and arguments that "they're all as bad as each other" simply aren't true and play into the Conservative strategy. They are a rancid party that feeds off greed, selfishness and now outright racism and hatred. If the UK votes them in again it deserves everything it gets. 
the people voted for brexit, you can bash the tories for lots of things holding a democratic referndum isn’t one of them

I am not bashing the Tories for having a referendum. As I said I actually don't wish to go off on something where people simply will not agree. To make it clearer: the referendum had an option for which there was no plan. It is irresponsible of a government to put in place something that they have no idea, clue or power to oversee what the campaign offered. Which is exactly what happened, irrespective of being anti or pro Brexit and my own views on the decision. This is why I mention it will be their legacy: it has been chaos since 2016 and the UK has lost leadership and capable government due in large part to how Brexit has been overseen by the Conservative party.


Edited by dr_martinov - 09 March 2024 at 6:32pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scarletpimp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 March 2024 at 1:53am
It appears the more we scrutinise the budget, the more that our friend Jeremy Hunt resembles the slippery silver trails slime of his boss Sunak.
Clearly he would have loved more "giveaways", in the form of tax cuts will continuing to cut public spending, there were radical threads, which could have long term consequences.

By 2027, because of cuts to National Insurance,(NI), and the decision to freeze income tax thresholds, for every £1 NI cut, £190 will be raised in taxes.
This "fiscal drag" will mean over three million  more higher -rate taxpayers and over four million more low earners paying tax. On current trends, a recipient of the full basic state pension, is also on course to pay tax, and perhaps fill, out a tax return in 2026/27.

The government is partly shifting the tax burden away from workers (some)towards all forms of income ,including savings and pensions

According to the independent Government economic Advisory body...The office For Budget Responsibility
(OBR)2% NI and last Novembers 2% cut in the Autumn statement do not offset the extra income tax being paid as a result of the tax thresholds being frozen.

But the fact that taxes on income overall are being raised means pensioners will see higher tax bills as their income increases (marginally).

Overall , this is not a tax cut with fiscal drag equating to the biggest single tax rise in 45 years.
Then in another reversal of previous Tory economic policy, where previously Sunak had been making the argument for raising spending on the NHS and social care, by increasing National Insurance to 13.25%. Policy now is to increase National Insurance to 8% and adult social care plan, is officially on ice !

Both major parties have been accused of a "conspiracy  of silence", by the influential think-tank the Institute for Fiscal Studies, about tough financial decisions required after the election,
It is clear however that Hunt and Sunak  have not only attempted to "slip one under the counter", with regard stealth taxes , which could have an effect on the elderly and vulnerable, but also appear to back tracking like Olympic sprinters in reverse , with regard to their commitments to the NHS and social care.

As we know Boris Johnson became the master of lies and deception "There were no parties Wink !"
The current incumbents of Downing street are catching up fast .
They should remember the immortal words of none other than Abraham Lincoln ,who once said
"You can fool some of the people all the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you cannot fool all of the people all of the time"....

Unless of course you you are  G W Bush , who was once quoted as saying.. "You can fool some of the people all of the time , and those are the ones you want to concentrate on Confused

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scarletpimp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 March 2024 at 1:56am
Correction above its £1.90 not £190...regard regarding tax revenue ..missed out the crucial decimal point LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 March 2024 at 7:35am
Originally posted by dr_martinov dr_martinov wrote:

Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

Originally posted by dr_martinov dr_martinov wrote:

The Tory government of the last 14 years have two things in their legacy: austerity and Brexit. 

It obviously will spark off paths well-trodden but the above indicate they had little interest in governing, reform or improving lives for the majority. The sole driving force of what they are now is reducing the size of the state, cutting public services and privatising anything they can, to the benefit of themselves and their funders. They are manifestly unfit to govern. All they have are stocking culture wars and divisions in society. Braverman, at the time home secretary, was guilty of hate speech. Ask yourselves just how exactly the UK has got to this and on who's watch. And then watch 10 million people vote for them even knowing all this. 

I am beyond sickened by them and arguments that "they're all as bad as each other" simply aren't true and play into the Conservative strategy. They are a rancid party that feeds off greed, selfishness and now outright racism and hatred. If the UK votes them in again it deserves everything it gets. 
the people voted for brexit, you can bash the tories for lots of things holding a democratic referndum isn’t one of them

I am not bashing the Tories for having a referendum. As I said I actually don't wish to go off on something where people simply will not agree. To make it clearer: the referendum had an option for which there was no plan. It is irresponsible of a government to put in place something that they have no idea, clue or power to oversee what the campaign offered. Which is exactly what happened, irrespective of being anti or pro Brexit and my own views on the decision. This is why I mention it will be their legacy: it has been chaos since 2016 and the UK has lost leadership and capable government due in large part to how Brexit has been overseen by the Conservative party.

As you know Dr M L supported Brexit. I still support the basic premise but I have to say that if I had known beforehand how poorly prepared and how poorly managed the process would have been I would have voted differently.

The Conservative party are totally shot & full of hot air factions who think they have the power to rule. They are in for a huge shock. My biggest concern of course is that I remain unconvinced that we have something a lot better to replace them which is a dilemma. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roy munster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 March 2024 at 6:38pm
Another £4.25 million tax payers money wasted by drakeford on a farmers field in west wales
He wanted to use it for the green man festival thats 8 miles away? Not only did the green man organisers not want it , it cant be used anyway because it has 2 ospreys living there...the birds not the rugby players lol....vaughan gethin said hes happy for the opreys???? this is actual real news.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dr_martinov Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 March 2024 at 9:43am
I must say it is seriously concerning the increase of racism and generally how much nastier the UK is getting. The truly concerning thing is that this is coming from the top and even being employed as an electoral strategy (e.g. Braverman). 

We now have a 10 million pound donor to a leading political party, I won't say which one but take a wild guess, exposed for outright racism. What is interesting is the mixed response to this from said party and reluctance to return the donation - £10 million buys you a LOT of racism it seems - and also the individual attempting to defend it as not being racist (you almost literally cannot get more racist). 

If I said what he had I would be sacked, it's as simple as that.

Along with numerous leading politicians from the same party, the message is very clear: they (as in politicians and their rich backers) do not adhere to the same rules as the rest of society. I've often wondered about the importance of personal character in politics - you could be an excellent politician but a total womaniser perhaps - but there must be some level of example-setting, ethics and trust in politicians or else we genuinely risk breakdowns in law and order. I obviously view the decline as being steep over the last 8 years and my strong opposition to the UK having Johnson as PM was not on his politics, as vague and flexible if you could even define them, but his dishonesty and chaotic style. This is why I found it so disheartening that a) the Tories made him leader and b) enough of the UK voted for him on the basis that he seemed fun. This seems to have paved the way for the illegality of his Government and blatant corruption and now outright racism within the same party.

I fully appreciate my partisan views on a certain party (which I believe are fully justified from actions from their members over the last 10 years or so) but I would like to state that I can fully respect someone with right-wing political views if they are honest and not peddling hate crimes constantly. It's kinda sad that even to suggest this seems like a radical concept.

I wish I'd never even taken an interest in politics because the more you learn about it, the more depressed you get. And the worst thing is nothing I think, say or do will make a blind bit of difference.

Thoughts (or rant) over. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 March 2024 at 10:02am
Originally posted by dr_martinov dr_martinov wrote:

I must say it is seriously concerning the increase of racism and generally how much nastier the UK is getting. The truly concerning thing is that this is coming from the top and even being employed as an electoral strategy (e.g. Braverman). 

We now have a 10 million pound donor to a leading political party, I won't say which one but take a wild guess, exposed for outright racism. What is interesting is the mixed response to this from said party and reluctance to return the donation - £10 million buys you a LOT of racism it seems - and also the individual attempting to defend it as not being racist (you almost literally cannot get more racist). 

If I said what he had I would be sacked, it's as simple as that.

Along with numerous leading politicians from the same party, the message is very clear: they (as in politicians and their rich backers) do not adhere to the same rules as the rest of society. I've often wondered about the importance of personal character in politics - you could be an excellent politician but a total womaniser perhaps - but there must be some level of example-setting, ethics and trust in politicians or else we genuinely risk breakdowns in law and order. I obviously view the decline as being steep over the last 8 years and my strong opposition to the UK having Johnson as PM was not on his politics, as vague and flexible if you could even define them, but his dishonesty and chaotic style. This is why I found it so disheartening that a) the Tories made him leader and b) enough of the UK voted for him on the basis that he seemed fun. This seems to have paved the way for the illegality of his Government and blatant corruption and now outright racism within the same party.

I fully appreciate my partisan views on a certain party (which I believe are fully justified from actions from their members over the last 10 years or so) but I would like to state that I can fully respect someone with right-wing political views if they are honest and not peddling hate crimes constantly. It's kinda sad that even to suggest this seems like a radical concept.

I wish I'd never even taken an interest in politics because the more you learn about it, the more depressed you get. And the worst thing is nothing I think, say or do will make a blind bit of difference.

Thoughts (or rant) over. 

Very eloquently put Dr M & I fully agree. It does not make it any more palatable but we are not alone in the UK. Far too many politicians, all over Europe & the US still refuse to call what is happening in Gaza ethnic cleansing or genocide - take your pick. Having lived & worked many years ago under  pretty corrupt rule in Southern Africa I am totally stunned that it is politicians from that part of the World who are prepared to call it what it is to the shame of the so called first world countries. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RR1972 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 March 2024 at 10:09am
seeing the situation in haiti, which in some parts namely the capital city right now is  just as bad as gaza. i’m wondering when will see marches on behalf of them? when will the un take action there?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dr_martinov Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 March 2024 at 9:03am
New extremism definition unveiled by government - BBC News

This will have some interesting implications. First, people are wondering about how vague it will be, to which Gove has answered that a "thoughtful" decision will be made. Guess who by? You got it: Gove himself. So he is essentially placing himself in charge of this definition. If you say something he doesn't like, prepare to be labelled an extremist and dealt with.

Second, I look at the actual current wording (which I realise is vague and will be developed):

"Ministers have unveiled a new extremism definition under which certain groups will be blocked from government funding and meeting officials.

It will apply to, but not criminalise, groups that promote an ideology based on "violence, hatred or intolerance"."

An ideology based on violence, hatred or intolerance eh?

I think Gove might be speaking to several of his colleagues in the near future then.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ap sior Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 March 2024 at 1:46pm
Originally posted by dr_martinov dr_martinov wrote:

New extremism definition unveiled by government - BBC News

This will have some interesting implications. First, people are wondering about how vague it will be, to which Gove has answered that a "thoughtful" decision will be made. Guess who by? You got it: Gove himself. So he is essentially placing himself in charge of this definition. If you say something he doesn't like, prepare to be labelled an extremist and dealt with.

Second, I look at the actual current wording (which I realise is vague and will be developed):

"Ministers have unveiled a new extremism definition under which certain groups will be blocked from government funding and meeting officials.

It will apply to, but not criminalise, groups that promote an ideology based on "violence, hatred or intolerance"."

An ideology based on violence, hatred or intolerance eh?

I think Gove might be speaking to several of his colleagues in the near future then.

So no ban on receiving funding from such groups/people then ?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scarletpimp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 March 2024 at 4:25pm
Originally posted by ap sior ap sior wrote:

Originally posted by dr_martinov dr_martinov wrote:

New extremism definition unveiled by government - BBC News

This will have some interesting implications. First, people are wondering about how vague it will be, to which Gove has answered that a "thoughtful" decision will be made. Guess who by? You got it: Gove himself. So he is essentially placing himself in charge of this definition. If you say something he doesn't like, prepare to be labelled an extremist and dealt with.

Second, I look at the actual current wording (which I realise is vague and will be developed):

"Ministers have unveiled a new extremism definition under which certain groups will be blocked from government funding and meeting officials.

It will apply to, but not criminalise, groups that promote an ideology based on "violence, hatred or intolerance"."

An ideology based on violence, hatred or intolerance eh?

I think Gove might be speaking to several of his colleagues in the near future then.

So no ban on receiving funding from such groups/people then ?

Good point Ap Sior!
Will the Tory Governnent ban itself, for accepting money from extremists like Hester,who they have allready themselves , deemed racist!
They condemn , but are implicated in the racist slur,  by keeping his money.
It's like accepting  stolen goods and then protesting innocence !
Don't forget,  until recently, they harboured Braverman and Anderson,  both extremists,  because their rhetoric fuels racist  tension, division and possibly  violence. 
So all in all , does that make the Tories "extremist .??Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RR1972 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 March 2024 at 7:14pm
what has anderson said that is extremist? it was a persinal comment on the mayor of london, hardly a call to jigad. braverman i get but not so much anderson,
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scarletpimp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 March 2024 at 12:06am
Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

what has anderson said that is extremist? it was a persinal comment on the mayor of london, hardly a call to jigad. braverman i get but not so much anderson,
7

Anderson..."I do'nt actually believe the Islamists have got control of our country, but what I do believe is that they have got control of khan and control of London"
also claimed Khan has
"given our capitol city away to his MATES"

Senior Tories expressed their disgust at Andersons remarks with former Chancellor Sajid Javid branding then "a ridiculous thing to say"

The business minister Nus Ghani said " I have spoken to Lee Anderson. I have called out Islamic extremism and been attacked by the hard left, far right and Islamists. I for one do'nt think for a moment Sadiq khan is controlled by Islamists. To say so, is foolish and dangerous"

Tory peer Baroness Warsi branded Anderson a dangerous loose cannon,  and his views extremist"

Lord Barnwell, who was Theresa may's chief of staff , described Anderson's comments as "A despicable slur"

Neil Garett, the leader of the Conservatives at city hall said "he had no shortage of criticism of mayor Khan" but that "he is not a Islamist, he is not in the pocket of Islamists, and i completely disagree with anyone who says otherwise"

Andy street, Tory mayor of west midlands called Andersons remarks "a disgrace"!

 So even Tories above, are appalled at Anderson extremist comments, but RR of Scarlet fever, says its OK! ! ConfusedConfusedConfused
 
So lets get it clear here, Anderson stirs up racial tension and hatred and pours fuel on the a situation already on a knife edge , because of Gaza, with Jews and Muslims alike frightened for their safety, some of whom are my friends. Makes lubricous comments on the Khan to say that he in the pocket of Islamic fundamentalists ! THATS NOT EXTREMIST.????????
If it was made by a lunatic nondescript backbencher like Peter Bone, well maybe understandable , but these remarks were made by a former senior Tory in Anderson and deputy party chair , who Sunak himself appointed.
In that context, Anderson's pungent rhetoric and extremism, is even more worrying.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RR1972 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 March 2024 at 8:26am
as i said to me that is a personal attack on khan not extemisim, i didn’t say it was ok. i guess we just have different views on what extremisim is. for me thousands of people chanting for the destructiom of a nation , burning union jacks, clambering all over the  centoaph is more extreme than some daft old tory banging on tbh
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