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dyniol53 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dyniol53 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 October 2021 at 12:56pm
Originally posted by dr_martinov dr_martinov wrote:

UK deaths: 137,000.
Australia deaths: 1,387

I guess what I’m trying to suggest above is that viewing it by headcount of Coronavirus associated deaths will probably be seen to be quite myopic as time passes.

They may well turn out not to have the same secondary whiplash affects that we’re seeing with supply chains and energy shortages in the Northern Hemisphere - but they may well also experience them more acutely.  

Lots of unknowns about what’s been disrupted that we didn’t realise we were disrupting at the time of lockdowns - for Australia, if closing the ports and locking down Melbourne for 2 years means container ships prioritise US medical equipment over the course of the next 18 months it’ll be a crisis that cuts lives short there too.

The U.K. is about to have an energy crisis, in a country where 25k pensioners die every winter because of improperly heated homes, a spike in energy prices will likely result in a lot of unnecessary deaths. 

There will be lots of these second-order effects that emerge over the next 18 months that need to be taken into account when thinking about what was a successful policy response and what wasn’t.

But I think for Australians, and Australian politicians trying to get re-elected, it is useful to focus on the death-count.
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Jones2004 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jones2004 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 October 2021 at 12:48pm
This is a question more for dr_martinov, but if anyone else knows the answer feel free reply. In Wales under 18s are only allowed one jab (unless they have one of the listed medical conditions). Is there any scientific basis for this, is it because the jabs are being prioritised for the booster program, or is it just an utter mess?! I feel like this has been slipped under the radar, with precious little accountability from the politicians, and even less questions by the media. All seems very weird to me.

Just for clarification I know this to be true as I’m 17 and just tried phoning to book my second jab.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dr_martinov Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 October 2021 at 1:53pm
Originally posted by Jones2004 Jones2004 wrote:

This is a question more for dr_martinov, but if anyone else knows the answer feel free reply. In Wales under 18s are only allowed one jab (unless they have one of the listed medical conditions). Is there any scientific basis for this, is it because the jabs are being prioritised for the booster program, or is it just an utter mess?! I feel like this has been slipped under the radar, with precious little accountability from the politicians, and even less questions by the media. All seems very weird to me.

Just for clarification I know this to be true as I’m 17 and just tried phoning to book my second jab.

I did not know this. It appears to be advice from the JCVI (which you may have very well already read): Covid: Jabs for 16 and 17-year-olds to start within weeks - BBC News

I'd assume it must be similar to when they advised the delayed gap between vaccinations for adults, arguing that substantial immunity is provided after the first dose, which was to allow a greater number to have a vaccination.

They've said the second dose will be confirmed later but I do find it strange they're not committing to it now. On the plus side, the JCVI have estimated a single dose provides 80% protection against hospital admission for young people. It is generally a lot milder in young people so I suppose side-effects become more of a factor to consider for their decision, and maybe these increase in number after the second one? So the relative benefit must be lower in the young. But don't let me worry you; there are very few examples of bad side-effects and I've not seen anything to even suggest it's unsafe.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote salmidach Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 October 2021 at 1:56pm
Originally posted by dr_martinov dr_martinov wrote:

Originally posted by Jones2004 Jones2004 wrote:

This is a question more for dr_martinov, but if anyone else knows the answer feel free reply. In Wales under 18s are only allowed one jab (unless they have one of the listed medical conditions). Is there any scientific basis for this, is it because the jabs are being prioritised for the booster program, or is it just an utter mess?! I feel like this has been slipped under the radar, with precious little accountability from the politicians, and even less questions by the media. All seems very weird to me.

Just for clarification I know this to be true as I’m 17 and just tried phoning to book my second jab.

I did not know this. It appears to be advice from the JCVI (which you may have very well already read): Covid: Jabs for 16 and 17-year-olds to start within weeks - BBC News

I'd assume it must be similar to when they advised the delayed gap between vaccinations for adults, arguing that substantial immunity is provided after the first dose, which was to allow a greater number to have a vaccination.

They've said the second dose will be confirmed later but I do find it strange they're not committing to it now. On the plus side, the JCVI have estimated a single dose provides 80% protection against hospital admission for young people. It is generally a lot milder in young people so I suppose side-effects become more of a factor to consider for their decision, and maybe these increase in number after the second one? So the relative benefit must be lower in the young. But don't let me worry you; there are very few examples of bad side-effects and I've not seen anything to even suggest it's unsafe.


It's the same in England. I think it's to stop them becoming too ill if they get it to keep them out of hospital.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Eastern outpost Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 October 2021 at 4:21pm
Our friends in France are having their third jab. Some already done and others in the coming week or two.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bills burr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 October 2021 at 4:37pm
3.6 million booster jabs given according to this report
also says the original jab wanes after 6 months
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote greypower1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 October 2021 at 6:45pm
Majority of fans at the Atletico Madrid stadium were wearing masks whereas the Liverpool fans were not on Tuesday night in Spain.
Seven months since my second jab and no sign of Hywel Dda getting the boosters up to speed.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ladram Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 October 2021 at 11:13pm
Originally posted by greypower1 greypower1 wrote:

Majority of fans at the Atletico Madrid stadium were wearing masks whereas the Liverpool fans were not on Tuesday night in Spain.
Seven months since my second jab and no sign of Hywel Dda getting the boosters up to speed.  
 there have been a number of drop in centres for the booster if you are eligible,
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 October 2021 at 8:29am
Is it me or are we in danger of sleep walking into another winter crisis? Why is the British government so set against re-introducing some low level restrictions such as social distancing and wearing of face masks in public?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wil Chips Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 October 2021 at 8:55am
Beyond any logic for me.

It’s proven that masks in indoor settings have a marked impact.

I’m flying to the uk with the family for Xmas, frankly, I’m not sure if that’s the stupidest thought I’ve ever had.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 October 2021 at 9:19am
Originally posted by Wil Chips Wil Chips wrote:

Beyond any logic for me.

It’s proven that masks in indoor settings have a marked impact.

I’m flying to the uk with the family for Xmas, frankly, I’m not sure if that’s the stupidest thought I’ve ever had.

I assume you will be spending most of your time in God's country Wil which is far better than England at the moment with regard to face masks. My nearest shopping town is Lampeter and apart from restricting numbers entering stores other safeguards such as distancing & face masks are being adhered to by at least 80-90% of people. 

A relative travelled by train to visit us recently from Kent. She was told to put her mask on when the train hit the Severn tunnel. It really does defy any logic. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RR1972 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 October 2021 at 9:42am
Scot ireland wales all have the mask rule boris just to be different won’t. I was in the tube in lomdon the other day 90 per cent of people unmasked not a great look tbh. As for wales Those mask exempt lanyards are on ebay and amazon to so anyone can buy them, loads of seemingly looking fit and well people have them on in shops, i know not all disabilities are visible but come on!!!

Edited by RR1972 - 22 October 2021 at 9:44am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jones2004 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 October 2021 at 9:42am
Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Originally posted by Wil Chips Wil Chips wrote:

Beyond any logic for me.

It’s proven that masks in indoor settings have a marked impact.

I’m flying to the uk with the family for Xmas, frankly, I’m not sure if that’s the stupidest thought I’ve ever had.

I assume you will be spending most of your time in God's country Wil which is far better than England at the moment with regard to face masks. My nearest shopping town is Lampeter and apart from restricting numbers entering stores other safeguards such as distancing & face masks are being adhered to by at least 80-90% of people. 

A relative travelled by train to visit us recently from Kent. She was told to put her mask on when the train hit the Severn tunnel. It really does defy any logic. 
Yet Wales have higher case rates? Important to note that if someone in England tested positive in May last year and again yesterday they’d only count as positive last year, while Wales would count both, but I doubt that alone explains the difference. While high cases don’t result in the utter disaster that they did last year, it still results in quite a few people being hospitalised, which of course means the NHS can’t treat other people and therefore can’t clear the elected surgery backlog. I guess what I’m asking is do masks really help keep cases down that much, or is herd immunity / vaccine waning a much bigger factor now?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RR1972 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 October 2021 at 9:46am
Originally posted by Jones2004 Jones2004 wrote:

Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Originally posted by Wil Chips Wil Chips wrote:

Beyond any logic for me.

It’s proven that masks in indoor settings have a marked impact.

I’m flying to the uk with the family for Xmas, frankly, I’m not sure if that’s the stupidest thought I’ve ever had.

I assume you will be spending most of your time in God's country Wil which is far better than England at the moment with regard to face masks. My nearest shopping town is Lampeter and apart from restricting numbers entering stores other safeguards such as distancing & face masks are being adhered to by at least 80-90% of people. 

A relative travelled by train to visit us recently from Kent. She was told to put her mask on when the train hit the Severn tunnel. It really does defy any logic. 
Yet Wales have higher case rates? Important to note that if someone in England tested positive in May last year and again yesterday they’d only count as positive last year, while Wales would count both, but I doubt that alone explains the difference. While high cases don’t result in the utter disaster that they did last year, it still results in quite a few people being hospitalised, which of course means the NHS can’t treat other people and therefore can’t clear the elected surgery backlog. I guess what I’m asking is do masks really help keep cases down that much, or is herd immunity / vaccine waning a much bigger factor now?
welsh people tend to live in closer communities both physically and in spirit, espec in the valleys, we are always in and out of each others houses i bet that is a factor. Big city life your lucky if you know your neighbour let alone call into their gaff for a cuppa!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ladram Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 October 2021 at 11:39am
Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

Originally posted by Jones2004 Jones2004 wrote:

Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Originally posted by Wil Chips Wil Chips wrote:

Beyond any logic for me.

It’s proven that masks in indoor settings have a marked impact.

I’m flying to the uk with the family for Xmas, frankly, I’m not sure if that’s the stupidest thought I’ve ever had.

I assume you will be spending most of your time in God's country Wil which is far better than England at the moment with regard to face masks. My nearest shopping town is Lampeter and apart from restricting numbers entering stores other safeguards such as distancing & face masks are being adhered to by at least 80-90% of people. 

A relative travelled by train to visit us recently from Kent. She was told to put her mask on when the train hit the Severn tunnel. It really does defy any logic. 
Yet Wales have higher case rates? Important to note that if someone in England tested positive in May last year and again yesterday they’d only count as positive last year, while Wales would count both, but I doubt that alone explains the difference. While high cases don’t result in the utter disaster that they did last year, it still results in quite a few people being hospitalised, which of course means the NHS can’t treat other people and therefore can’t clear the elected surgery backlog. I guess what I’m asking is do masks really help keep cases down that much, or is herd immunity / vaccine waning a much bigger factor now?
welsh people tend to live in closer communities both physically and in spirit, espec in the valleys, we are always in and out of each others houses i bet that is a factor. Big city life your lucky if you know your neighbour let alone call into their gaff for a cuppa!
my son lives in ashford and your lucky if someone on the street makes eye contact with you leave alone exchange good mornings.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Legendinmybathroom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 October 2021 at 2:05pm
I won’t always believe the numbers being mentioned.  I remember the day day that Boris announced that they were relaxing all restrictions last May - It was announced on a day where amazingly no deaths were registered in England in the 24 hours before the announcement, yet the number of deaths in Scotland, Ireland and Wales were well into double figures, yet the next day the death rates were a complete reversal, with England’s numbers being close to 3 figures and the devolved countries numbers barely reaching double figures.
The Westminster government are very good at massaging the figures to meet their narrative  - hence claiming that face mask wearing in Wales isn’t working as an excuse for not making them compulsory on transport and in enclosed spaces (as there are far too many Tory front and back benches totally opposed to further restrictions).
When you have the care sector minister stating that Tory MPs don’t need to wear masks in parliament (as they know everyone) whilst threatening care staff with the sack if they don’t get vaccinated just shows you how out of touch this Tory government realy are with reality. 
The BMA and NHS are all saying that the Westminster Government need to re-
introduce mask wearing as a restriction again but allegedly the government follows the science, but who’s science.
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