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totallybiasedscarlet View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote totallybiasedscarlet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 hours 7 minutes ago at 7:31pm
Originally posted by roy munster roy munster wrote:

Originally posted by totallybiasedscarlet totallybiasedscarlet wrote:

Originally posted by roy munster roy munster wrote:

The other problem with the climate plan is the money men dictate it. Look at cars, its currently totally unrealistic and unaffordable for billions to buy electric cars and plug them in every day. Then you have the infinite hidden costs like dpfs in vehicle endless sensors that are simply unaffordable to the majority

The notion that the environmental solution to cars is to just swap to batteries is dangerously wrong whether they become affordable or not. The answer lies in making public transport and active travel a better option. That takes investment. Given that these things are a public good I don't hold out much hope.

Electric trams seem to be making a comeback in several english towns, seem like an obvious step forward to be, any ideas why they were scrapped in the first place?

Presumably on a cost basis. Cars have proven popular and a tax cash cow. Too convenient a model to want to change I suppose.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dyniol53 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 8 hours 39 minutes ago at 11:59pm
Originally posted by dr_martinov dr_martinov wrote:

Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Lets take this a little further afield. England throughout the latest Omicron wave limited restrictions. France have introduced much tighter restrictions recently but still had limits of 5000 at outdoor sporting events throughout. They also introduced a travel ban from the UK. Numbers of cases in England peaked at just over 200K & are currently around 80K; France yesterday nearly 500k with 7 day averages up to 300k.

Surely we have to realise sometime soon that the way we live with this virus threat is through a World class vaccination programme with scientifically led ongoing programmes aimed at keeping natural immunity as high as possible in the community. Arbitrarily closing down vast swathes of our economy cannot be a long term answer & creates far more problems than solutions. 

The World is facing an exponential threat to its very existence in climate change - successful economies throughout the World are the engines to pay for the change that is needed; this enormous change is being stalled as more and more damage is done to our economies. We have to find a better way. 

Unfortunately, there's no money to be made from doing any of the things needed, and we've seen how resistant people are to any imposed changes in their lifestyles with covid, so my hopes are very low that anything significant will happen until we are past the point of no return. 

Yes that is why Elon Musk is a very poor man because his green energy charity Tesla does not make a profit 
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dyniol53 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dyniol53 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 8 hours 34 minutes ago at 12:04am
Originally posted by totallybiasedscarlet totallybiasedscarlet wrote:

Originally posted by roy munster roy munster wrote:

Originally posted by totallybiasedscarlet totallybiasedscarlet wrote:

Originally posted by roy munster roy munster wrote:

The other problem with the climate plan is the money men dictate it. Look at cars, its currently totally unrealistic and unaffordable for billions to buy electric cars and plug them in every day. Then you have the infinite hidden costs like dpfs in vehicle endless sensors that are simply unaffordable to the majority

The notion that the environmental solution to cars is to just swap to batteries is dangerously wrong whether they become affordable or not. The answer lies in making public transport and active travel a better option. That takes investment. Given that these things are a public good I don't hold out much hope.

Electric trams seem to be making a comeback in several english towns, seem like an obvious step forward to be, any ideas why they were scrapped in the first place?

Presumably on a cost basis. Cars have proven popular and a tax cash cow. Too convenient a model to want to change I suppose.

Sadie Kahn is doing a good job in london making it more expensive to drive cars, he’s even toying with the idea of making motorists pay per mile to get more people cycling.

Trams are on their way back because of their energy efficiency and many cities like paris are regreening their main roads.

New urbanism is progressing really quickly - even China have banned new skyscrapers. Most city planners are pivoting away from the car quite dramatically - whether electric or diesel.
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dr_martinov View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dr_martinov Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 minutes ago at 8:20am
Originally posted by dyniol53 dyniol53 wrote:

Originally posted by dr_martinov dr_martinov wrote:

Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Lets take this a little further afield. England throughout the latest Omicron wave limited restrictions. France have introduced much tighter restrictions recently but still had limits of 5000 at outdoor sporting events throughout. They also introduced a travel ban from the UK. Numbers of cases in England peaked at just over 200K & are currently around 80K; France yesterday nearly 500k with 7 day averages up to 300k.

Surely we have to realise sometime soon that the way we live with this virus threat is through a World class vaccination programme with scientifically led ongoing programmes aimed at keeping natural immunity as high as possible in the community. Arbitrarily closing down vast swathes of our economy cannot be a long term answer & creates far more problems than solutions. 

The World is facing an exponential threat to its very existence in climate change - successful economies throughout the World are the engines to pay for the change that is needed; this enormous change is being stalled as more and more damage is done to our economies. We have to find a better way. 

Unfortunately, there's no money to be made from doing any of the things needed, and we've seen how resistant people are to any imposed changes in their lifestyles with covid, so my hopes are very low that anything significant will happen until we are past the point of no return. 

Yes that is why Elon Musk is a very poor man because his green energy charity Tesla does not make a profit 

The Elon Musk who invested heavily in bitcoin? Or pursuing the very eco friendly ambition of space travel? He does lots of things and the discussions on how green electric cars really are is obvious. The aims of governments and companies are not primarily environmentally friendly, no matter what green "improvement" they claim over existing technologies. This is yet again making more things to sell as an outlook. Everything has a cost and growth of an economy is at the detriment of something else. That was poorer nations' resources not too long ago and now I think it is apparent that is now a global problem as the earth has a finite level of resources plus capacity to absorb human activity. Infinite economic growth that benefits everyone is a myth. Even software, it still needs energy to run, silicon and plastic to make hardware etc. 

Obviously anything "green" will be led by these big companies because they have the resources and influence. If Tesla were being truly green they would tell their customers not to use cars or other products as much. This is unlikely to as they have cars to sell. Governments who impose restrictions on e.g. travel at the scale required will be unpopular and get unelected. This is my point: those that have actual influence have competing priorities and any action that is taken is likely to be small and uncoordinated. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dr_martinov Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 9 minutes ago at 8:29am
While that's pretty gloomy I think about the story of CFCs and it can be done. That was an immediate issue with a single cause however and still took decades to sort out due to economic and political issues, getting other countries to comply, compensating companies that used them and so on. The ozone layer hole was a much simpler issue than climate change though. 
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