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totallybiasedscarlet View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote totallybiasedscarlet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 January 2022 at 7:31pm
Originally posted by roy munster roy munster wrote:

Originally posted by totallybiasedscarlet totallybiasedscarlet wrote:

Originally posted by roy munster roy munster wrote:

The other problem with the climate plan is the money men dictate it. Look at cars, its currently totally unrealistic and unaffordable for billions to buy electric cars and plug them in every day. Then you have the infinite hidden costs like dpfs in vehicle endless sensors that are simply unaffordable to the majority

The notion that the environmental solution to cars is to just swap to batteries is dangerously wrong whether they become affordable or not. The answer lies in making public transport and active travel a better option. That takes investment. Given that these things are a public good I don't hold out much hope.

Electric trams seem to be making a comeback in several english towns, seem like an obvious step forward to be, any ideas why they were scrapped in the first place?

Presumably on a cost basis. Cars have proven popular and a tax cash cow. Too convenient a model to want to change I suppose.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dyniol53 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 January 2022 at 11:59pm
Originally posted by dr_martinov dr_martinov wrote:

Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Lets take this a little further afield. England throughout the latest Omicron wave limited restrictions. France have introduced much tighter restrictions recently but still had limits of 5000 at outdoor sporting events throughout. They also introduced a travel ban from the UK. Numbers of cases in England peaked at just over 200K & are currently around 80K; France yesterday nearly 500k with 7 day averages up to 300k.

Surely we have to realise sometime soon that the way we live with this virus threat is through a World class vaccination programme with scientifically led ongoing programmes aimed at keeping natural immunity as high as possible in the community. Arbitrarily closing down vast swathes of our economy cannot be a long term answer & creates far more problems than solutions. 

The World is facing an exponential threat to its very existence in climate change - successful economies throughout the World are the engines to pay for the change that is needed; this enormous change is being stalled as more and more damage is done to our economies. We have to find a better way. 

Unfortunately, there's no money to be made from doing any of the things needed, and we've seen how resistant people are to any imposed changes in their lifestyles with covid, so my hopes are very low that anything significant will happen until we are past the point of no return. 

Yes that is why Elon Musk is a very poor man because his green energy charity Tesla does not make a profit 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dyniol53 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 January 2022 at 12:04am
Originally posted by totallybiasedscarlet totallybiasedscarlet wrote:

Originally posted by roy munster roy munster wrote:

Originally posted by totallybiasedscarlet totallybiasedscarlet wrote:

Originally posted by roy munster roy munster wrote:

The other problem with the climate plan is the money men dictate it. Look at cars, its currently totally unrealistic and unaffordable for billions to buy electric cars and plug them in every day. Then you have the infinite hidden costs like dpfs in vehicle endless sensors that are simply unaffordable to the majority

The notion that the environmental solution to cars is to just swap to batteries is dangerously wrong whether they become affordable or not. The answer lies in making public transport and active travel a better option. That takes investment. Given that these things are a public good I don't hold out much hope.

Electric trams seem to be making a comeback in several english towns, seem like an obvious step forward to be, any ideas why they were scrapped in the first place?

Presumably on a cost basis. Cars have proven popular and a tax cash cow. Too convenient a model to want to change I suppose.

Sadie Kahn is doing a good job in london making it more expensive to drive cars, he’s even toying with the idea of making motorists pay per mile to get more people cycling.

Trams are on their way back because of their energy efficiency and many cities like paris are regreening their main roads.

New urbanism is progressing really quickly - even China have banned new skyscrapers. Most city planners are pivoting away from the car quite dramatically - whether electric or diesel.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dr_martinov Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 January 2022 at 8:20am
Originally posted by dyniol53 dyniol53 wrote:

Originally posted by dr_martinov dr_martinov wrote:

Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Lets take this a little further afield. England throughout the latest Omicron wave limited restrictions. France have introduced much tighter restrictions recently but still had limits of 5000 at outdoor sporting events throughout. They also introduced a travel ban from the UK. Numbers of cases in England peaked at just over 200K & are currently around 80K; France yesterday nearly 500k with 7 day averages up to 300k.

Surely we have to realise sometime soon that the way we live with this virus threat is through a World class vaccination programme with scientifically led ongoing programmes aimed at keeping natural immunity as high as possible in the community. Arbitrarily closing down vast swathes of our economy cannot be a long term answer & creates far more problems than solutions. 

The World is facing an exponential threat to its very existence in climate change - successful economies throughout the World are the engines to pay for the change that is needed; this enormous change is being stalled as more and more damage is done to our economies. We have to find a better way. 

Unfortunately, there's no money to be made from doing any of the things needed, and we've seen how resistant people are to any imposed changes in their lifestyles with covid, so my hopes are very low that anything significant will happen until we are past the point of no return. 

Yes that is why Elon Musk is a very poor man because his green energy charity Tesla does not make a profit 

The Elon Musk who invested heavily in bitcoin? Or pursuing the very eco friendly ambition of space travel? He does lots of things and the discussions on how green electric cars really are is obvious. The aims of governments and companies are not primarily environmentally friendly, no matter what green "improvement" they claim over existing technologies. This is yet again making more things to sell as an outlook. Everything has a cost and growth of an economy is at the detriment of something else. That was poorer nations' resources not too long ago and now I think it is apparent that is now a global problem as the earth has a finite level of resources plus capacity to absorb human activity. Infinite economic growth that benefits everyone is a myth. Even software, it still needs energy to run, silicon and plastic to make hardware etc. 

Obviously anything "green" will be led by these big companies because they have the resources and influence. If Tesla were being truly green they would tell their customers not to use cars or other products as much. This is unlikely to as they have cars to sell. Governments who impose restrictions on e.g. travel at the scale required will be unpopular and get unelected. This is my point: those that have actual influence have competing priorities and any action that is taken is likely to be small and uncoordinated. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dr_martinov Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 January 2022 at 8:29am
While that's pretty gloomy I think about the story of CFCs and it can be done. That was an immediate issue with a single cause however and still took decades to sort out due to economic and political issues, getting other countries to comply, compensating companies that used them and so on. The ozone layer hole was a much simpler issue than climate change though. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ap sior Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 January 2022 at 10:15am
Originally posted by dr_martinov dr_martinov wrote:

Originally posted by dyniol53 dyniol53 wrote:

Originally posted by dr_martinov dr_martinov wrote:

Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Lets take this a little further afield. England throughout the latest Omicron wave limited restrictions. France have introduced much tighter restrictions recently but still had limits of 5000 at outdoor sporting events throughout. They also introduced a travel ban from the UK. Numbers of cases in England peaked at just over 200K & are currently around 80K; France yesterday nearly 500k with 7 day averages up to 300k.

Surely we have to realise sometime soon that the way we live with this virus threat is through a World class vaccination programme with scientifically led ongoing programmes aimed at keeping natural immunity as high as possible in the community. Arbitrarily closing down vast swathes of our economy cannot be a long term answer & creates far more problems than solutions. 

The World is facing an exponential threat to its very existence in climate change - successful economies throughout the World are the engines to pay for the change that is needed; this enormous change is being stalled as more and more damage is done to our economies. We have to find a better way. 

Unfortunately, there's no money to be made from doing any of the things needed, and we've seen how resistant people are to any imposed changes in their lifestyles with covid, so my hopes are very low that anything significant will happen until we are past the point of no return. 

Yes that is why Elon Musk is a very poor man because his green energy charity Tesla does not make a profit 

The Elon Musk who invested heavily in bitcoin? Or pursuing the very eco friendly ambition of space travel? He does lots of things and the discussions on how green electric cars really are is obvious. The aims of governments and companies are not primarily environmentally friendly, no matter what green "improvement" they claim over existing technologies. This is yet again making more things to sell as an outlook. Everything has a cost and growth of an economy is at the detriment of something else. That was poorer nations' resources not too long ago and now I think it is apparent that is now a global problem as the earth has a finite level of resources plus capacity to absorb human activity. Infinite economic growth that benefits everyone is a myth. Even software, it still needs energy to run, silicon and plastic to make hardware etc. 

Obviously anything "green" will be led by these big companies because they have the resources and influence. If Tesla were being truly green they would tell their customers not to use cars or other products as much. This is unlikely to as they have cars to sell. Governments who impose restrictions on e.g. travel at the scale required will be unpopular and get unelected. This is my point: those that have actual influence have competing priorities and any action that is taken is likely to be small and uncoordinated. 

I do like your use of Malthus (1798), and The Limits to Growth report (1972). 

Dates in brackets refer to the dates when these works were published. It is quite remarkable really that over 200 years after Malthus, we still haven't got to grips with the consequences that he forewarned us about. In fairness to him, there was no way that in 1798 Malthus could have predicted how changes in agricultural out put would rise with mechanisation in the industry, and how the development of high yielding varieties would change things.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dr_martinov Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 January 2022 at 10:29am
Originally posted by ap sior ap sior wrote:

Originally posted by dr_martinov dr_martinov wrote:

Originally posted by dyniol53 dyniol53 wrote:

Originally posted by dr_martinov dr_martinov wrote:

Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Lets take this a little further afield. England throughout the latest Omicron wave limited restrictions. France have introduced much tighter restrictions recently but still had limits of 5000 at outdoor sporting events throughout. They also introduced a travel ban from the UK. Numbers of cases in England peaked at just over 200K & are currently around 80K; France yesterday nearly 500k with 7 day averages up to 300k.

Surely we have to realise sometime soon that the way we live with this virus threat is through a World class vaccination programme with scientifically led ongoing programmes aimed at keeping natural immunity as high as possible in the community. Arbitrarily closing down vast swathes of our economy cannot be a long term answer & creates far more problems than solutions. 

The World is facing an exponential threat to its very existence in climate change - successful economies throughout the World are the engines to pay for the change that is needed; this enormous change is being stalled as more and more damage is done to our economies. We have to find a better way. 

Unfortunately, there's no money to be made from doing any of the things needed, and we've seen how resistant people are to any imposed changes in their lifestyles with covid, so my hopes are very low that anything significant will happen until we are past the point of no return. 

Yes that is why Elon Musk is a very poor man because his green energy charity Tesla does not make a profit 

The Elon Musk who invested heavily in bitcoin? Or pursuing the very eco friendly ambition of space travel? He does lots of things and the discussions on how green electric cars really are is obvious. The aims of governments and companies are not primarily environmentally friendly, no matter what green "improvement" they claim over existing technologies. This is yet again making more things to sell as an outlook. Everything has a cost and growth of an economy is at the detriment of something else. That was poorer nations' resources not too long ago and now I think it is apparent that is now a global problem as the earth has a finite level of resources plus capacity to absorb human activity. Infinite economic growth that benefits everyone is a myth. Even software, it still needs energy to run, silicon and plastic to make hardware etc. 

Obviously anything "green" will be led by these big companies because they have the resources and influence. If Tesla were being truly green they would tell their customers not to use cars or other products as much. This is unlikely to as they have cars to sell. Governments who impose restrictions on e.g. travel at the scale required will be unpopular and get unelected. This is my point: those that have actual influence have competing priorities and any action that is taken is likely to be small and uncoordinated. 

I do like your use of Malthus (1798), and The Limits to Growth report (1972). 

Dates in brackets refer to the dates when these works were published. It is quite remarkable really that over 200 years after Malthus, we still haven't got to grips with the consequences that he forewarned us about. In fairness to him, there was no way that in 1798 Malthus could have predicted how changes in agricultural out put would rise with mechanisation in the industry, and how the development of high yielding varieties would change things.

Does he have a TikTok channel? If he wasn't a pretty person who's good at speaking in front of cameras then no-one will notice.

We seem to have seen an anti-intellectual shift where people dislike "experts", you know, people who have devoted their whole lives to understanding complex topics, and instead the opinions of actors/entertainers, musicians and professional advertisers carries far more weight. 

And so we are back to then relying upon those in charge to make the decisions, political parties funded by business (indeed, even appointing actors and entertainers to lead them to please the public) and massive companies driven by profit margins and the wishes of their wealthy investors.

Do I sound a tad bit cynical by any chance? LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dyniol53 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 January 2022 at 10:36am
Originally posted by dr_martinov dr_martinov wrote:

Originally posted by dyniol53 dyniol53 wrote:

Originally posted by dr_martinov dr_martinov wrote:

Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

The World is facing an exponential threat to its very existence in climate change - successful economies throughout the World are the engines to pay for the change that is needed; this enormous change is being stalled as more and more damage is done to our economies. We have to find a better way. 

Unfortunately, there's no money to be made from doing any of the things needed,

Yes that is why Elon Musk is a very poor man because his green energy charity Tesla does not make a profit 

The Elon Musk who invested heavily in bitcoin? Or pursuing the very eco friendly ambition of space travel? He does lots of things and the discussions on how green electric cars really are is obvious. The aims of governments and companies are not primarily environmentally friendly, no matter what green "improvement" they claim over existing technologies. This is yet again making more things to sell as an outlook. Everything has a cost and growth of an economy is at the detriment of something else. That was poorer nations' resources not too long ago and now I think it is apparent that is now a global problem as the earth has a finite level of resources plus capacity to absorb human activity. Infinite economic growth that benefits everyone is a myth. Even software, it still needs energy to run, silicon and plastic to make hardware etc. 

Obviously anything "green" will be led by these big companies because they have the resources and influence. If Tesla were being truly green they would tell their customers not to use cars or other products as much. This is unlikely to as they have cars to sell. Governments who impose restrictions on e.g. travel at the scale required will be unpopular and get unelected. This is my point: those that have actual influence have competing priorities and any action that is taken is likely to be small and uncoordinated. 

Tesla wasn’t a big company 17 years ago - it is now. Because it creates products that people want. One of the compelling features is it’s cars are more sustainable for the environment than alternatives. 

Elon Musk also tried to build solar city, but that failed. But he did that with his own money and investors invested hoping for returns. 

The idea that reducing CO2 emissions is solely a job for of centrally planned governments is ludacris and self defeating… it’s almost like people don’t want to reduce CO2 emissions they want to prevent someone somewhere making a profit…

Most government action to appease environmentalists does more harm than good, take Germany closing down nuclear plants because of demands of green activists and becoming more reliant on coal. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dr_martinov Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 January 2022 at 11:18am
Originally posted by dyniol53 dyniol53 wrote:

Originally posted by dr_martinov dr_martinov wrote:

Originally posted by dyniol53 dyniol53 wrote:

Originally posted by dr_martinov dr_martinov wrote:

Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

The World is facing an exponential threat to its very existence in climate change - successful economies throughout the World are the engines to pay for the change that is needed; this enormous change is being stalled as more and more damage is done to our economies. We have to find a better way. 

Unfortunately, there's no money to be made from doing any of the things needed,

Yes that is why Elon Musk is a very poor man because his green energy charity Tesla does not make a profit 

The Elon Musk who invested heavily in bitcoin? Or pursuing the very eco friendly ambition of space travel? He does lots of things and the discussions on how green electric cars really are is obvious. The aims of governments and companies are not primarily environmentally friendly, no matter what green "improvement" they claim over existing technologies. This is yet again making more things to sell as an outlook. Everything has a cost and growth of an economy is at the detriment of something else. That was poorer nations' resources not too long ago and now I think it is apparent that is now a global problem as the earth has a finite level of resources plus capacity to absorb human activity. Infinite economic growth that benefits everyone is a myth. Even software, it still needs energy to run, silicon and plastic to make hardware etc. 

Obviously anything "green" will be led by these big companies because they have the resources and influence. If Tesla were being truly green they would tell their customers not to use cars or other products as much. This is unlikely to as they have cars to sell. Governments who impose restrictions on e.g. travel at the scale required will be unpopular and get unelected. This is my point: those that have actual influence have competing priorities and any action that is taken is likely to be small and uncoordinated. 

Tesla wasn’t a big company 17 years ago - it is now. Because it creates products that people want. One of the compelling features is it’s cars are more sustainable for the environment than alternatives. 

Elon Musk also tried to build solar city, but that failed. But he did that with his own money and investors invested hoping for returns. 

The idea that reducing CO2 emissions is solely a job for of centrally planned governments is ludacris and self defeating… it’s almost like people don’t want to reduce CO2 emissions they want to prevent someone somewhere making a profit…

Most government action to appease environmentalists does more harm than good, take Germany closing down nuclear plants because of demands of green activists and becoming more reliant on coal. 

Exactly my points. Creates products, products cost resources. To me, it's just someone selling something slightly different and that USP then means they can charge more for it. More sustainable than alternatives yes, so overall I am glad they exist rather than not, but that doesn't mean it is actually a solution. Removing it completely or reducing the use could be a solution but that is not going to happen and won't be led by those selling it will it? They have money to make, jobs to create, personal egos to maintain etc.

As to the rest I never said it's solely a job for governments, in fact, I was acknowledging big companies play a very large role. Although that is certainly not a ludicrous idea at all, look at China. It is just because in the UK and US business is now bigger than government. Those governments have economic interests and popularity to get re-elected as priorities greater than environmental. If concerns about the latter increase substantially, that could change though. Small countries where climate change is a direct threat to life and livelihoods are the place to look for where it's happened already. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dr_martinov Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 January 2022 at 11:38am
I think what I'm putting forward is that the aims of capitalism - and metrics upon which success are judged - have to change and adapt. It should no longer be seen that economic growth is good, for example. If we see that the UK's economy has grown by such-and-such a % we should really be asking "at what cost, and to who?". At present, people are investing to make more money back but this model is not sustainable at the environmental level. My comments above are that those who decide this, companies and governments, are all fully invested in this system and that anyone different is firmly on the outside with limited opportunity to influence. Usually, because they don't have enough money or lack coordination.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 January 2022 at 1:11pm
Originally posted by dr_martinov dr_martinov wrote:

I think what I'm putting forward is that the aims of capitalism - and metrics upon which success are judged - have to change and adapt. It should no longer be seen that economic growth is good, for example. If we see that the UK's economy has grown by such-and-such a % we should really be asking "at what cost, and to who?". At present, people are investing to make more money back but this model is not sustainable at the environmental level. My comments above are that those who decide this, companies and governments, are all fully invested in this system and that anyone different is firmly on the outside with limited opportunity to influence. Usually, because they don't have enough money or lack coordination.

What you are saying Dr M is correct, but only to a point. Large Corporations do indeed exist for their shareholders interests but we should not dismiss the groundswell of feelings that large finance can influence. Major hedgefunds have been moving their cash away from contentious products towards greener alternatives for many years. Large operations like BP are spending fortunes on their post fossil fuel products so they remain relevant. All is not doom and gloom. As for pioneers of greener alternatives making money - good for the if they make a major contribution towards the climate change problem. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jones2004 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 January 2022 at 4:28pm
Originally posted by dr_martinov dr_martinov wrote:

I think what I'm putting forward is that the aims of capitalism - and metrics upon which success are judged - have to change and adapt. It should no longer be seen that economic growth is good, for example. If we see that the UK's economy has grown by such-and-such a % we should really be asking "at what cost, and to who?". At present, people are investing to make more money back but this model is not sustainable at the environmental level. My comments above are that those who decide this, companies and governments, are all fully invested in this system and that anyone different is firmly on the outside with limited opportunity to influence. Usually, because they don't have enough money or lack coordination.
I don’t know if you’ve seen this dr, but it really is a superb article that backs up the points you’re making.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roy munster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 January 2022 at 5:00pm
Originally posted by dr_martinov dr_martinov wrote:

I think what I'm putting forward is that the aims of capitalism - and metrics upon which success are judged - have to change and adapt. It should no longer be seen that economic growth is good, for example. If we see that the UK's economy has grown by such-and-such a % we should really be asking "at what cost, and to who?". At present, people are investing to make more money back but this model is not sustainable at the environmental level. My comments above are that those who decide this, companies and governments, are all fully invested in this system and that anyone different is firmly on the outside with limited opportunity to influence. Usually, because they don't have enough money or lack coordination.

We need a wholly different measurement of growth and success.
The current masterplan needs radical and urgent updating 
ROYMOND MUNTER MBE (FOR SERVICES TO THE COMBOVER)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wil Chips Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 February 2022 at 6:28pm
Denmark, with the 2nd highest 7 day infection rate in the world, Is the first country to effectively bin any and all restrictions from COVID.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kentexile Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 February 2022 at 9:38pm
Spent the last couple of days travelling for work in France Belgium and Holland. With leaving and returning to England 4 sets of COVID rules and sets of documents and tests - because I couldn’t practically quarantine under Dutch rules as needed to see people face to face I  couldn’t stay in Holland for more than 12 consecutive hours ( until today when rules relaxed for the triple jabbed from the UK) but could go back to Belgium where I could stay for up to  48 hours as long as I made sure not to cross the border from Holland or France into Belgium  in public transport.No time limit in France but different rules on crossing from the Uk as compared to driving across the border from Belgium as if coming into France from Belgium rather than directly from the UK your test result is valid for twice as long even if the original test was taken in the UK.Having spent hours researching the different rules and completing umpteen online and paper forms with tests thrown in apart from my passport being checked on leaving through Eurotunnel I  crossed  the various borders umpteen times without a single check and the only way of knowing you were in a different country was the ‘welcome to ‘sign on the motorway.In Holland premises usually asked for Proof of vaccination nothing in Belgium and asked occasionally in France but all keen on mask wearing . Didn’t see another Uk registered car after the turn off for Dunkirk so felt privileged the rules had just been written for me as none of the above applied to EU citizens .Sorry absolutely no point to this post other than unburdening .
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 February 2022 at 8:10am
Originally posted by Kentexile Kentexile wrote:

Spent the last couple of days travelling for work in France Belgium and Holland. With leaving and returning to England 4 sets of COVID rules and sets of documents and tests - because I couldn’t practically quarantine under Dutch rules as needed to see people face to face I  couldn’t stay in Holland for more than 12 consecutive hours ( until today when rules relaxed for the triple jabbed from the UK) but could go back to Belgium where I could stay for up to  48 hours as long as I made sure not to cross the border from Holland or France into Belgium  in public transport.No time limit in France but different rules on crossing from the Uk as compared to driving across the border from Belgium as if coming into France from Belgium rather than directly from the UK your test result is valid for twice as long even if the original test was taken in the UK.Having spent hours researching the different rules and completing umpteen online and paper forms with tests thrown in apart from my passport being checked on leaving through Eurotunnel I  crossed  the various borders umpteen times without a single check and the only way of knowing you were in a different country was the ‘welcome to ‘sign on the motorway.In Holland premises usually asked for Proof of vaccination nothing in Belgium and asked occasionally in France but all keen on mask wearing . Didn’t see another Uk registered car after the turn off for Dunkirk so felt privileged the rules had just been written for me as none of the above applied to EU citizens .Sorry absolutely no point to this post other than unburdening .

Think that just about sums up the nonsense which is European bureaucracy at its best. Thank heaven we are out of it is all I can say. 
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