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crys 16 "meet the Coaches.8/11/22

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scarletpimp View Drop Down
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    Posted: 09 November 2022 at 12:06am
I attended the Crys 16 "meet the coaches " event in the Quinell lounge tonight.
 I know, quite a few Scarlets fans on SF don't live in Llanelli, so I will do my best to provide a rough sketch of proceedings.
All the coaches were in attendance, Dwaine Peel (head coach), john Williams(defence), Emyr Phillips (contact area). ben Franks (forwards), and jon Daniels (head of performance)

There was a change to previous formats, whereas we had questions from the floor directly, now they were written by those in attendance, collated and asked on behalf for those present. 
There were pros and cons to this and previous meetings system.
In the past some individuals held the floor too long and it rambled
This time, there was no chance to ask subsidiary on linked questions and may argue it was sterile.
Maybe a mix of both next time.?

Dwaine shouldered most of the early questions about the first batch of matches.
He gave us statistics about the failure of the team to finish games off, such as the last 3 mins against Ospreys. 
The lack of conversion from pressure to points is an issue
Against Leinster Dwaine said we had 11-line breaks to Leinster's 3, yet the converted theirs.
The fact that we got back to within 5 points of ulster and 3 from Benneton, then let it slip, was frustrating he said.

There was a general discussion on discipline, which Dwaine started, but the other coaches contributed to. This included giving pes away and inviting pressure in our red zone, possibly incurring further pens/cards due to pressure.
There was also mention of suspensions, which were hurting us ATM.

Ben franks stated that he is learning some aspects of forwards coaching role.
He came as scrum coach, but now is generally overseeing most aspects of forward play.
He felt that some of the line out failures recently, particularly in the last 3 games, have been more down to poor skillset like catching/throwing, as opposed to failure of coordinated skill ...throw, lift/catch/timing etc.

John Williams talked about defence, and the desire to defend effectively., and to regain the ball as part of that.
One question asked why we were poor around the breakdown sometimes, and several key half breaks have been made against us there.

There was talk of recognising that the core spine of the team/squad is ageing and the need to replace that, with a new generation of scarlets.
names mentioned as future spine....
Rogers, Conbeer, Roberts., Costello, O'Connor, Jac Price, Carwyn Tuipoloto.
There will be need to support the spine with others from within and outside the region.

Jon Daniels said that the lack of WRU deal with regions was hampering deals, with current players and the possibility of bringing in talent from elsewhere.
He mentioned the need to strengthen at tight head and second row, as priority.

Injury updates are more encouraging, as Carwyn T, plays for Llanelli v Cardiff on Thurs, and quite a few others on the way back, prob available for SA block of games.
Headaches ...Wyn Jones, out until new year and Samson Lee for longer!

There were other questions, such as why Rhys Patchell wasn't starting any game.
Dwaine answered, quite bluntly, because Costelow is playing really well
_________________________________________________________________________

To summarise, I didn't feel we were told anything we failed to know already.
Would have liked to know more detail about what remedies are being taken to rectify failings.
The major failure for this, was Crys 16 , possibly worried about acrimony, reverting to tonight's format.
My opinion is that it was not a success.
It prevented subsidiary questions being answered, to challenge answers given by coaches. Instead, we moved on directly to the next question. It made the occasion business like and snappy, but, in my view, unsatisfactory
When I say "challenge", I mean of course, in a respectful way, to glean more information.
A perfect illustration of this, is Dwaine's answer on the Patchell question.
I would have asked him and Jon Daniels another linked question regarding re-signing some players, with injury concerns. Patchell never starts games now.

Anway despite my observations, I sincerely thank CRYs 16 for organising tonight's meeting and all the coaches, for giving their time and attending.
_________________________________________________________________________________

I hope all on SF find the above helpful.
I stood yer on tanner bank
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ladram View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ladram Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 November 2022 at 6:07am
Many thanks for that pimp but as you say it was saying what we all know and we now stand loud and proud at the top of the league for stating the bleeding obvious.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 November 2022 at 7:41am
Originally posted by ladram ladram wrote:

Many thanks for that pimp but as you say it was saying what we all know and we now stand loud and proud at the top of the league for stating the bleeding obvious.

Too right ladram - sounds very much like a total waste of time. Patchell does not play because Costelow is playing so well. Why did he then pick Dan Jones ahead of him when Costelow not available. I am afraid events like this only serve to enforce supporters views of a club in terminal decline.

Many thanks to Pimp for his prompt report.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Eastern outpost Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 November 2022 at 7:55am
Thanks Pimp.

I’d imagine Crys16 will be taking this feedback and using it, possibly to ask the audience if there are any follow up questions from the initial answer.

The Crys folk I’ve met/spoken with all seem bright folk and work hard to put these things on. The format will have to be agreed by (someone at) the club. Maybe that’s where the new format came from.

Perhaps Crys will comment in due course when sending out their précis to members.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mr Ian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 November 2022 at 8:23am
Tnx for the update...of course is unthinkable go to the meeting and ask to the coaches why we are living a bad moment..no doubt they are doing the best but they are humans and sometime things dont go as we dream...
Come on Scarlets, together we can find the solutions...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (3) Thanks(3)   Quote Gate12 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 November 2022 at 8:47am
I think simply having the name on the question would help and allow the person who put the question forward to follow up if needed, need a good host for that to judge when it is and isn't appropriate to follow up.

Dwayne was pretty candid about where we are and I can see the type of game we're trying to play but we're obviously not there yet, it was hard to disagree with anything he said.

For me it all just reaffirmed what I already thought which is Peel is the right man for the job but has been dealt a very difficult hand in the shape of a shrinking squad in terms of budget and volume which makes it harder to get quality in but also harder to improve standards without good numbers available for training, a pathway which needs a lot of love and an inexperienced team around him.

The bits that stood out for me that we need to get away from is the ongoing WRU funding issues and working with the WRU on the pathways, we can't rely on the WRU to do anything quickly, or to be blunt properly, we need to remove ourselves as much as possible and get on with things ourselves.

Also whilst I'd agree with the comment from the panel that we're not getting the same quality through from the pathways that we used to I don't agree that it's down to player numbers, we're just not identifying and nurturing the talent we have well enough.

The question asked around the coaches mentors was interesting, with the exception of Emyr's trip to NZ and Dwayne everyone's answers involved mentors from environments they'd been in in the past, that's natural because of personal connections but it would be nice if there was more input from completely different environments.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 November 2022 at 8:56am
Originally posted by Gate12 Gate12 wrote:

I think simply having the name on the question would help and allow the person who put the question forward to follow up if needed, need a good host for that to judge when it is and isn't appropriate to follow up.

Dwayne was pretty candid about where we are and I can see the type of game we're trying to play but we're obviously not there yet, it was hard to disagree with anything he said.

For me it all just reaffirmed what I already thought which is Peel is the right man for the job but has been dealt a very difficult hand in the shape of a shrinking squad in terms of budget and volume which makes it harder to get quality in but also harder to improve standards without good numbers available for training, a pathway which needs a lot of love and an inexperienced team around him.

The bits that stood out for me that we need to get away from is the ongoing WRU funding issues and working with the WRU on the pathways, we can't rely on the WRU to do anything quickly, or to be blunt properly, we need to remove ourselves as much as possible and get on with things ourselves.

Also whilst I'd agree with the comment from the panel that we're not getting the same quality through from the pathways that we used to I don't agree that it's down to player numbers, we're just not identifying and nurturing the talent we have well enough.

The question asked around the coaches mentors was interesting, with the exception of Emyr's trip to NZ and Dwayne everyone's answers involved mentors from environments they'd been in in the past, that's natural because of personal connections but it would be nice if there was more input from completely different environments.

On the point of mentoring. Has anyone thought of approaching the French rugby Union & asking if our defence coach could sit in on a Shaun Edwards coaching session during the Autumn series. A suitable payment to be made to charity of Shaun's choice. If you want to learn - learn from the best. Similarly who is responsible for working with Costelow on his line kicking which is by far his main weakness????
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote reesytheexile Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 November 2022 at 9:01am
Pimp thanks for the update. I could not make it so the commentary including format was very helpful . In the past the open question from the floor format did cause some issues with one or two speakers dominating such as the speaker who usually goes on and on about scrumming 1960’s style and how easy it all is!!! So that prevents this but otherwise it looks a bit controlled and stage managed to mitigate any below the radar questions. Perhaps the questioner should have been allowed one verbal follow up question to the written one? 

Any way thanks again to Crys and the club for the meeting. 


Edited by reesytheexile - 09 November 2022 at 9:23am

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote judith Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 November 2022 at 9:53am
Thanks scarletpimp for this - it's very helpful and much appreciated from those of us who live too far away to attend these meetings (much as we'd love to!).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dai Guevara Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 November 2022 at 10:39am
When asked why Patchell wan't being selected and Dwayne replied because " Costelow was playing really well" did anyone challenge him as to why Dinky was chosen ahead of Patchell for Leinster when Costelow was not available?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scarletpimp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 November 2022 at 11:15am
Originally posted by Gate12 Gate12 wrote:

I think simply having the name on the question would help and allow the person who put the question forward to follow up if needed, need a good host for that to judge when it is and isn't appropriate to follow up.

Dwayne was pretty candid about where we are and I can see the type of game we're trying to play but we're obviously not there yet, it was hard to disagree with anything he said.

For me it all just reaffirmed what I already thought which is Peel is the right man for the job but has been dealt a very difficult hand in the shape of a shrinking squad in terms of budget and volume which makes it harder to get quality in but also harder to improve standards without good numbers available for training, a pathway which needs a lot of love and an inexperienced team around him.

The bits that stood out for me that we need to get away from is the ongoing WRU funding issues and working with the WRU on the pathways, we can't rely on the WRU to do anything quickly, or to be blunt properly, we need to remove ourselves as much as possible and get on with things ourselves.

Also whilst I'd agree with the comment from the panel that we're not getting the same quality through from the pathways that we used to I don't agree that it's down to player numbers, we're just not identifying and nurturing the talent we have well enough.

The question asked around the coaches mentors was interesting, with the exception of Emyr's trip to NZ and Dwayne everyone's answers involved mentors from environments they'd been in in the past, that's natural because of personal connections but it would be nice if there was more input from completely different environments.

Thanks Gate 12 for the additional  info(better report than mine)
I agree with what you say,in particular with regard to Dwaine.
He spoke well, even though ,with a different format,possibly we could have had a few more answers. 
Dwaine could not have taken over at a worse time.
We all know there are serious current failings which need to put right..identified at this meeting  and which we have all discussed  on SF many times.
Hopefully ,with a return of the injured and the addition of Blacket to the coaching team...we can see some improvements.
Have to be realistic, as well as optimistic  I thinkLOL.

Finally despite my reservations regarding last night I do think Crys 16 do some excellent work overall,vand need to be thanked for that.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote N14 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 November 2022 at 11:27am
Originally posted by Dai Guevara Dai Guevara wrote:

When asked why Patchell wan't being selected and Dwayne replied because " Costelow was playing really well" did anyone challenge him as to why Dinky was chosen ahead of Patchell for Leinster when Costelow was not available?

I wasn't there but from what I've read from those who were, there wasn't the opportunity to respond to any of the answers in this way
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scarletpimp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 November 2022 at 11:45am
Originally posted by N14 N14 wrote:

Originally posted by Dai Guevara Dai Guevara wrote:

When asked why Patchell wan't being selected and Dwayne replied because " Costelow was playing really well" did anyone challenge him as to why Dinky was chosen ahead of Patchell for Leinster when Costelow was not available?

I wasn't there but from what I've read from those who were, there wasn't the opportunity to respond to any of the answers in this way

Correct

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ladram Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 November 2022 at 11:54am
Originally posted by Dai Guevara Dai Guevara wrote:

When asked why Patchell wan't being selected and Dwayne replied because " Costelow was playing really well" did anyone challenge him as to why Dinky was chosen ahead of Patchell for Leinster when Costelow was not available?
Exactly total waste of time if the answer doesn't relate fully to the question.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote CRYS16 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 November 2022 at 12:17pm
Thanks everyone for the feedback.
Firstly, it is true that we took a cautious approach to this event. We're all obviously aware of how frustrating this season has been, and we did discuss at last week's Crys16 board meeting how that might affect the tone of the event. 

Also, as has been pointed out, there have been some instances in the past of people hogging the microphone and asking some very interesting but perhaps not productive questions, so we wanted a slightly more "managed" process. 

That's why we took the decision to use Julian Lewis Jones as host, and to ensure that we had a good balance of questions to start off the evening.

We did ask, on the invitation to the event, for questions to be submitted by email and actually got very few responses. Less than 5. 

Our role as a supporters' trust is to ensure that the club are aware of our members' opinions, and to create opportunities for dialogue and feedback whenever possible. We are certainly not in the business of censorship, and we are not here to be the club's PR. 

We did reflect together briefly after the event, and we all agreed that it felt a bit "flat". To be honest, we expected more written questions from the floor, and we expected audience members might have raised their hands or asked for follow ups. 

So, in summary we do agree with some of the feedback on this thread. We did err on the side of caution and agree that the lack of follow up questions was a weakness. 

We'll reflect on this in more detail at our next board meeting and we'll ensure that we proactively seek further audience participation at future events. 

We don't monitor ScarletFever religiously - we all have day jobs, so a reminder that you can email info@crys16.cymru if anyone wants an individual response.

Again, Diolch for the feedback - it is all appreciated.
Email info@crys16.cymru with your membership queries!

JOIN CRYS 16 FOR FREE:
http://www.crys16.cymru
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scarletpimp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 November 2022 at 12:45pm
Originally posted by CRYS16 CRYS16 wrote:

Thanks everyone for the feedback.
Firstly, it is true that we took a cautious approach to this event. We're all obviously aware of how frustrating this season has been, and we did discuss at last week's Crys16 board meeting how that might affect the tone of the event. 

Also, as has been pointed out, there have been some instances in the past of people hogging the microphone and asking some very interesting but perhaps not productive questions, so we wanted a slightly more "managed" process. 

That's why we took the decision to use Julian Lewis Jones as host, and to ensure that we had a good balance of questions to start off the evening.

We did ask, on the invitation to the event, for questions to be submitted by email and actually got very few responses. Less than 5. 

Our role as a supporters' trust is to ensure that the club are aware of our members' opinions, and to create opportunities for dialogue and feedback whenever possible. We are certainly not in the business of censorship, and we are not here to be the club's PR. 

We did reflect together briefly after the event, and we all agreed that it felt a bit "flat". To be honest, we expected more written questions from the floor, and we expected audience members might have raised their hands or asked for follow ups. 

So, in summary we do agree with some of the feedback on this thread. We did err on the side of caution and agree that the lack of follow up questions was a weakness. 

We'll reflect on this in more detail at our next board meeting and we'll ensure that we proactively seek further audience participation at future events. 

We don't monitor ScarletFever religiously - we all have day jobs, so a reminder that you can email info@crys16.cymru if anyone wants an individual response.

Again, Diolch for the feedback - it is all appreciated.

Many thanks for that.
Will look forward to the next meeting.
One final point.
Possibly Crys 16 could give us some info regarding  Julian Lewis Jones suggestion of a pre game " warm up"..with the theme" calon".
Pre match warm ups work well in Toulon.
Different ball game here, with smaller dwindling crowds..BUT,
anything is worth considering, Thanks
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