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Does Islam frighten you....?

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ursamajor View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ursamajor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 September 2004 at 12:21pm
Originally posted by A.R. A.R. wrote:

Condemnation of 9/11 is one thing. I don't
hear
any condemation of Abu Hamza or that other Radical Cleric
who said
last week that schools were fair game.




Abu Hamza's following in the UK is miniscule, his beliefs are
roundly
condemned within the vast majority of British mosques.

Originally posted by A.R. A.R. wrote:

Just take Anne Robinson's anti-Welsh
comments.
These are not even in the fourth division when it comes to
racisit
comments, but they were roundly condemned.



True. But only in Wales.

Plenty of First Division racism to worry about on owr own
doorstep.

Murder of Kalan Kawa Karim

http://
news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/wales/


Edited by ursamajor
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Jerry Dammers View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jerry Dammers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 September 2004 at 12:40pm

link not working Ursa, presume it's the Iraqi killed in Swansea? are the press calling it racist and stirring things up just because he's an Iraqi? I happen to think It is racially motivated, but until they catch someone we have to stick with assumptions. If so I can probably assume that whoever did it used the "terrorist" excuse  to justify a dose of old fashioned British bigotry. Same happened last year in Llanelli, someone got assaulted on their way to the Mosque in Station Road, and that was blatant racisim as they shouted abuse at him while they did him over, seem to recall they used the . Didn't even know there was a mosque in Llanelli until then. An example of a town that is culturally and ethnically unaware? Whilst not in the same league as Swansea, who have a well documented problem with racism (memorable chants of "you're owned by a Paki" from the North Bank aimed at Cardiff fans a few years ago, as well as monkey noises for visiting players,It did happen, I was there at the time), Llanelli does have the bonehead element who like to cause grief. You can see it every weekend in the take aways etc.If they don't like the guys, then don't buy your food there you morons.....

Where was I going with this post?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote A.R. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 September 2004 at 1:45pm

Sorry Ursa, but we are not talking racism here, we are talking fundamentalism - which is a completely different league. Do you honestly think that Palestinian Hamas are blowing themselves up in the name of racism?

As for Abu Hamsa's following, you have just agreed totally with my point. His following is relatively small, and therefore there should be large condemnation from the islamic community - but there isn't, presumably because they are told what to do and say by the Imam. If you stay silent then it looks as if you don't disagree.

Anyway, thanks for the debate.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 September 2004 at 3:30pm
Originally posted by mr lloyd evans mr lloyd evans wrote:

Trouble is Ursa, your link is to the Muslim news, not a site/publication regularly read by the "British" public. It is also the fault of the British media for not publicising the condemnations to a wider, more "mainstream" audience, thus ensuring the majority of people are aware that such a condemnation has taken place. Then we might not have incidents such as the apparant racist murder of an Iraqi that took place in Swansea this week.

Perhaps our "great" British press would prefer to make little or no references to such articles as the one you have a link to, prefering instead to leave things stir up a bit. After all, death, violence and fear sell more copies than people standing united and condemning. Do the press/government actually want to publicse the condemning? or can't they stand the thought of a united, multi cultural society........  

That is a frankly insane comment, mate. I'm sure you don't really believe it...I hope you don't...

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wrecsamscarlet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 September 2004 at 4:00pm
A Mosque in Llanelli! I am surprised. That is another thing that concerns me, Mosques seem to be getting built now in towns which are relatively homogenous communities. There was one opened in Rhyl not so long back - a mosque in a north wales seaside town where the only non-welsh people to move there are scousers. I'm not racist but I'm glad that we haven't had one built in Wrexham. The council would be reluctant to allow for it following last year's troubles which showed that we have a higher than average number of idiots whose aim in life is to cause trouble and pick fights as there's nothing else to do. Also local councillors know that their seats are more vulnerable than what they used to be

Edited by wrecsamscarlet
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote A.R. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 September 2004 at 4:02pm

There are some excellent views here. A good debate.

I can only speak from what I read in the proper press (not the Mail or Express!! Talk about inciting the BNP), by visitng muslim countries and talking to people who have a far better understanding of this issue than I have. I know the Imam of a mosque in Cardiff and am very friendly with an Iraqi who actually fought against us in the original Gulf War (fight or be shot). Their stories are amazing.

Anyone with an interest in this should listen to the BBC's Jeremy Bowen talk about the 6 day war between Israel and Palestine. I heard him at the Hay festival earlier this year.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jerry Dammers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 September 2004 at 4:34pm
[/QUOTE]

That is a frankly insane comment, mate. I'm sure you don't really believe it...I hope you don't...

[/QUOTE]

What? about the press or government? two page spread in one of the Sunday papers, dwelling on someone glorifying and congratulating the people responsible for 9/11, on the day a memorial was held at ground zero. Hardly any mention of the ceremony, no mention at all of any condemnations of the attack or the commentss. Tell a lie, there was one and a half lines. A united community does not sell papers. hate and stirring it up does. There'll be more race attacks after that story, mark my words. I'm sure the press and government want another war or at least some riots, sound like another Western power? perish the thought.............

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ursamajor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 September 2004 at 5:17pm
Originally posted by A.R. A.R. wrote:

Sorry Ursa, but we are not talking racism
here, we are talking fundamentalism - which is a completely
different league. Do you honestly think that Palestinian Hamas
are blowing themselves up in the name of racism?


As for Abu Hamsa's following, you have just agreed totally
with my point. His following is relatively small, and therefore
there should be large condemnation from the islamic
community - but there isn't, presumably because they are told
what to do and say by the Imam. If you stay silent then it looks
as if you don't disagree.


Anyway, thanks for the debate.



The original topic was 'Does Islam frighten you?' not 'does
'fundamentalism frighten you?'

Islam doesn't frighten me, but I abhor any form of
fundamentalism, political or otherwise.

However the extent to which fundamentalism permeates British
muslim society is hugely exaggerated by those who do not
understand, or wish to understand, the true make up of
multicultural Britain. In this respect racism and fundamentalism
are inexorably linked.






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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jerry Dammers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 September 2004 at 6:04pm

Good thing about these debates is that they never finish up as they started!

As an example though, how would you define or give an example of  a multicultural community? I don't think we live in a particularly multicultural town myself, or do we? do take aways and restaurants make us one? or do we need  more arts/music type of events to ensure a free mix of styles and education? The Specials first made me aware of social/race issues etc, going off the subject and rambling now, two long shifts and a need for a pint getting to me now........

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bin laden Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 September 2004 at 6:44pm
my missus frightens me,does that mean she is a fundamentalist?
Yes,I am back with a stewards view on things.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jerry Dammers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 September 2004 at 12:36am
you frightened me Friday, your capacity for apples knows no limits!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rich jones Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 September 2004 at 10:57am
all religions have there nutcases who terrorise others but islam is the most published because of 9/11
rich jones
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jonathan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 September 2004 at 10:59am
yes it is richard u learned that in RE
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 September 2004 at 11:00am
do, you understand islam mike??
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rich jones Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 September 2004 at 11:03am

Originally posted by Jonathan Jonathan wrote:

yes it is richard u learned that in RE

no i didnt, i woz told that islam woz amazing and all other religions were evil.   

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