Scarlet Fever Llanelli Rugby Sport Wales Tickets Homepage
Forum Home Forum Home > SOCIAL > CHAT BOARD
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Energy crises
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login


Energy crises

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1234>
Author
Message
roy munster View Drop Down
Veteran
Veteran
Avatar

Joined: 30 August 2010
Status: Offline
Points: 15375
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roy munster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 February 2023 at 8:09am

Taxes on their profits are higher - they pay 30% corporation tax on their profits and a supplementary 10% rate on top of that. Other firms currently pay corporation tax at 19%.

But oil and gas firms have been able to reduce the amount of tax they pay by factoring in losses or spending on things like decommissioning North Sea oil platforms.

In recent years, such methods have meant that BP and Shell, for example, have paid almost no tax in the UK.

BP and Shell both received more money back from the UK government than they paid every year from 2015 to 2020 (except 2017, when Shell paid more than it received).

Shell also paid a negative amount of tax in 2021, taking its total since 2015 to -£685m of tax in the UK.

BP paid more money in tax than it received back in 2021, taking its total since 2015 to -£107m.

ROYMOND MUNTER MBE (FOR SERVICES TO THE COMBOVER)
Back to Top
Sponsored Links


Back to Top
dr_martinov View Drop Down
Veteran
Veteran
Avatar

Joined: 06 August 2005
Location: Tycoch
Status: Offline
Points: 13251
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dr_martinov Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 February 2023 at 8:50am
Originally posted by roy munster roy munster wrote:

Taxes on their profits are higher - they pay 30% corporation tax on their profits and a supplementary 10% rate on top of that. Other firms currently pay corporation tax at 19%.

But oil and gas firms have been able to reduce the amount of tax they pay by factoring in losses or spending on things like decommissioning North Sea oil platforms.

In recent years, such methods have meant that BP and Shell, for example, have paid almost no tax in the UK.

BP and Shell both received more money back from the UK government than they paid every year from 2015 to 2020 (except 2017, when Shell paid more than it received).

Shell also paid a negative amount of tax in 2021, taking its total since 2015 to -£685m of tax in the UK.

BP paid more money in tax than it received back in 2021, taking its total since 2015 to -£107m.


What?! How is that even possible? You'd have to some corrupt, ethics-devoid Government who's sole aim is to make their rich contacts even richer in place for this to happen surely?
Back to Top
Fscarlet View Drop Down
Moderator Group
Moderator Group


Joined: 26 January 2015
Status: Offline
Points: 8538
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fscarlet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 February 2023 at 9:03am
I mean I haven't read the ins & outs of it but reducing the amount of tax you pay by factoring in losses on investments is normal practice in accountancy. 
Back to Top
GPR - Rochester View Drop Down
Veteran
Veteran
Avatar

Joined: 01 December 2014
Location: Rhydcymerau
Status: Offline
Points: 17605
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 February 2023 at 9:04am
Originally posted by dr_martinov dr_martinov wrote:

Originally posted by roy munster roy munster wrote:

Taxes on their profits are higher - they pay 30% corporation tax on their profits and a supplementary 10% rate on top of that. Other firms currently pay corporation tax at 19%.

But oil and gas firms have been able to reduce the amount of tax they pay by factoring in losses or spending on things like decommissioning North Sea oil platforms.

In recent years, such methods have meant that BP and Shell, for example, have paid almost no tax in the UK.

BP and Shell both received more money back from the UK government than they paid every year from 2015 to 2020 (except 2017, when Shell paid more than it received).

Shell also paid a negative amount of tax in 2021, taking its total since 2015 to -£685m of tax in the UK.

BP paid more money in tax than it received back in 2021, taking its total since 2015 to -£107m.


What?! How is that even possible? You'd have to some corrupt, ethics-devoid Government who's sole aim is to make their rich contacts even richer in place for this to happen surely?

Surely commissioning & de-commissioning costs are accounted for before they publish their net profits????
Back to Top
dr_martinov View Drop Down
Veteran
Veteran
Avatar

Joined: 06 August 2005
Location: Tycoch
Status: Offline
Points: 13251
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dr_martinov Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 February 2023 at 9:41am
TBH I shouldn't really be saying anything due to my ignorance of finance. They are companies that sell something which a) costs loads (and has spiked recently) and b) we all need.* So they make lots of money. That's all I know. 

* Edit: and c) contributes towards climate change and mass-extinction. Which they tried to cover-up. That doesn't change b), however. 


Edited by dr_martinov - 07 February 2023 at 9:43am
Back to Top
GPR - Rochester View Drop Down
Veteran
Veteran
Avatar

Joined: 01 December 2014
Location: Rhydcymerau
Status: Offline
Points: 17605
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 February 2023 at 9:57am
It is pretty clear to most sane individuals that the vast upsurge in the cost of oil/gas/electricity does not mean a similar increase in the cost of production. The result in any scenario like this huge increases in the bottom line. Again any sane government would address these issues by capping both the ability of these companies to make such profits and use those profits to alleviate the burden on the population.

Talk of not penalising the oil producers because of some need to commit to investment in future green innovation is frankly a load of bollocks. All energy producers who want to be in business in 2050 onwards will be already investing big time in this development & would have done with profits at levels pre 2021.
Back to Top
Oracle View Drop Down
Veteran
Veteran
Avatar

Joined: 19 September 2022
Location: North pole
Status: Offline
Points: 3959
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Oracle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 February 2023 at 10:14am
There's profit , which is planned as part of operating costs 
There's investment, this is planned along a 10 year timeline 
There's excess profit , not expected , does not affect the investment 

The Tory's won't tax point 3 because they say it will ruin investment, but future investment is based on a 10 year plan not excess profits , so effectively the excess profits are extra dividend payouts to share holders. ...I wonder if there are any shareholders of energy companies in the cabinet ....
I wonder AngryAngryAngry
Back to Top
greypower1 View Drop Down
Veteran
Veteran
Avatar

Joined: 04 December 2010
Location: Pwll
Status: Offline
Points: 4015
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote greypower1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 February 2023 at 10:45am
Well I'm sure a lot of us on here are beneficiaries of the oil and gas giants via our pension funds so be careful what you wish for.  By the way the majority of the pension payments go straight back into the economy and a percentage to the inland revenue Cry so dividends to shareholders are not all bad.
Keep the faith
Back to Top
dr_martinov View Drop Down
Veteran
Veteran
Avatar

Joined: 06 August 2005
Location: Tycoch
Status: Offline
Points: 13251
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dr_martinov Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 February 2023 at 11:00am
Originally posted by greypower1 greypower1 wrote:

Well I'm sure a lot of us on here are beneficiaries of the oil and gas giants via our pension funds so be careful what you wish for.  By the way the majority of the pension payments go straight back into the economy and a percentage to the inland revenue Cry so dividends to shareholders are not all bad.

Yes, true... although the Government are happy to push the pension age up and my own situation experienced an over 30% cut in the pension I will receive, if I even live long enough to retire. But yes, I think fundamentally we're all stuck in the system we have. And, of course, we all use their product so are contributing to their profits. 
Back to Top
Legendinmybathroom View Drop Down
Veteran
Veteran
Avatar

Joined: 29 May 2017
Location: Burry Port
Status: Offline
Points: 2915
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Legendinmybathroom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 February 2023 at 11:57am
So BP have just announced £23billion profit for 2022whikst saying that they were now planning on scaling back on their plans to reduce emissions over the next decade.
This suggests that they will be reducing their investment in renewable resources and cleaning up crude oil, yet this Tory government will probably still let them offset tax against investment in cleaning up the environment.
Sunak and Hunt should come down on BP like a tonne of bricks, but hey, this is the Tory party- friends to the big corporations.
Back to Top
Oracle View Drop Down
Veteran
Veteran
Avatar

Joined: 19 September 2022
Location: North pole
Status: Offline
Points: 3959
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Oracle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 February 2023 at 12:01pm
Originally posted by greypower1 greypower1 wrote:

Well I'm sure a lot of us on here are beneficiaries of the oil and gas giants via our pension funds so be careful what you wish for.  By the way the majority of the pension payments go straight back into the economy and a percentage to the inland revenue Cry so dividends to shareholders are not all bad.

Interesting comments and very worrying because this comment indicates that our entire infrastructure is built around this corrupt lattice....so we all complain about the corrupt system and the people who run /exploit it until one facet of our own lives are affected and then we need to back the system ....
If you look at the entire system should the logical outcome be to become an exploiter and get what you can from the system with no regard for anyone other than yourself....Maybe this reasoning was why truss left the lib dems as an anti monarchy individual and jumped on the far right bandwaggon ...it was nothing more than realising the system may be corrupt but great personal gain can be attained 
Back to Top
ladram View Drop Down
Rambler
Rambler
Avatar

Joined: 08 April 2005
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 26557
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ladram Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 February 2023 at 1:14pm
Originally posted by dr_martinov dr_martinov wrote:

BP reporting record profits, double the year before...
Not surprised as most people's casts have doubled Angry
Back to Top
scarletpimp View Drop Down
Veteran
Veteran


Joined: 22 November 2015
Location: llanelli
Status: Online
Points: 2085
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scarletpimp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 February 2023 at 9:27pm
Originally posted by Legendinmybathroom Legendinmybathroom wrote:

So BP have just announced £23billion profit for 2022whikst saying that they were now planning on scaling back on their plans to reduce emissions over the next decade.
This suggests that they will be reducing their investment in renewable resources and cleaning up crude oil, yet this Tory government will probably still let them offset tax against investment in cleaning up the environment.
Sunak and Hunt should come down on BP like a tonne of bricks, but hey, this is the Tory party- friends to the big corporations.

Agree. It's unbelievable  and disgusting 
I stood yer on tanner bank
Back to Top
Sir Duckling Tuft View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: 27 May 2012
Location: wales
Status: Offline
Points: 698
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Sir Duckling Tuft Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 February 2023 at 1:41am
Their greed is insatiable. Starmer must promise to fight this insane corporate takeover and back sme's who actually pay taxes, rates and license fees into the treasury....The corporations are destroying sciety and devouring this country of all its resources
sir duckling tuft
Back to Top
lofty evans View Drop Down
Rambler
Rambler
Avatar

Joined: 20 September 2007
Location: Gorseinon
Status: Offline
Points: 52799
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lofty evans Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 February 2023 at 2:48pm
Originally posted by Sir Duckling Tuft Sir Duckling Tuft wrote:

Their greed is insatiable. Starmer must promise to fight this insane corporate takeover and back sme's who actually pay taxes, rates and license fees into the treasury....The corporations are destroying sciety and devouring this country of all its resources

Agreed 


In 1972, Roy Bergiers scored that try and said "that was for you lofty"

"All you have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us"
Back to Top
dr_martinov View Drop Down
Veteran
Veteran
Avatar

Joined: 06 August 2005
Location: Tycoch
Status: Offline
Points: 13251
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dr_martinov Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 February 2023 at 3:48pm
Originally posted by Sir Duckling Tuft Sir Duckling Tuft wrote:

Their greed is insatiable. Starmer must promise to fight this insane corporate takeover and back sme's who actually pay taxes, rates and license fees into the treasury....The corporations are destroying sciety and devouring this country of all its resources

I would say that's a lighbulb moment but that will just increase their profits further.
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1234>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.04
Copyright ©2001-2021 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.203 seconds.