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england v fiji
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aber-fan View Drop Down
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Points: 18334 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aber-fan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 August 2023 at 8:58am
Originally posted by scarletpimp scarletpimp wrote:

Excellent contributions from all....thanks!
I think we should 'hot-wire' Gatland, both Will and Aber's comments on tacticsWink !

My first recall of Fiji,  was as as a small boy, and incredibly  enthusiastic  scarlet, I had an encounter with whole Fijian squad  (this was in the 60's.
Luckily for me my grandfather  was Chief cashier to the Borough of Llanelli, ( then a unitary  authority). His office in the old town hall, was just down the corridor  from the council chamber and the mayor's parlour. When the mayor  entertained the Fiji squad , prior to a game with Llanelli,  Grandpa got me in for their autographs. I was so thrilled, particularly  when this huge Fijian picked me up and put me on his shoulders. I even have a photo if the event.
I have also had an affection  for Fiji, ever since, and wish them well in the WC, except I'm their game against  Wales. LOL

iirc, Wales were the first country in the NH to invite Fiji over 'ere to play a test - and it turned out into a proper nail-biter... a quick check shows that it wasn't an 'official' test, though and Fiji played a 'Wales XV'. I'm sure most in Wales expected an easy win, but it was anything but... the decisive score came towards the end when no. 8 Alun Pask, carrying the ball one-handed, went on a run where he dummied this way and that before the try was scored (probably by Pask himself - not 100% sure)... ah, yes - found the film:

https://twitter.com/BBCScrumV/status/1180135485609562114?lang=en-GB
“You cannot reason a man out of what he never reasoned himself into.” (Jonathan Swift)
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Gate12 View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Kentexile Kentexile wrote:

This is I would guess the first time Fiji have gone into a World Cup game against a tier 1 nation as favourites and it will be interesting to see how they react to that added pressure.

Wales are somehow still favourites with the bookies for this game, equally surprisingly England are also favourites against Argentina.
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And surprisingly strong too with the bookies
Tempted by odds of50-1 being offered for a  draw
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If you went by rankings then Fiji are ranked above everyone else in their pool
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Points: 12714 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote salmidach Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 August 2023 at 1:19pm
I think Wales can and will win the group and that's not me being pro national team as I'm not.

Australia are in a really really bad place right now. Gone are the dark days of complacency under Pivac. Gatland won't allow Wales to be so bad as they were under pivac. 

I'm going for Wales topping the group and facing Japan in the Q/F (don't think England will get out of the group) and then Argentina in the S/F.
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Originally posted by salmidach salmidach wrote:

I think Wales can and will win the group and that's not me being pro national team as I'm not.

Australia are in a really really bad place right now. Gone are the dark days of complacency under Pivac. Gatland won't allow Wales to be so bad as they were under pivac. 

I'm going for Wales topping the group and facing Japan in the Q/F (don't think England will get out of the group) and then Argentina in the S/F.


If England can't beat a Japanese team that shipped 40+ points against Italy Borthwick may want to consider emigrating. Confused. Also thats a bold call on Argentina - If I am correct they will have to beat one of the top 4 ranked teams to get to a semi final. 
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Originally posted by salmidach salmidach wrote:

I think Wales can and will win the group and that's not me being pro national team as I'm not.

Australia are in a really really bad place right now. Gone are the dark days of complacency under Pivac. Gatland won't allow Wales to be so bad as they were under pivac. 

I'm going for Wales topping the group and facing Japan in the Q/F (don't think England will get out of the group) and then Argentina in the S/F.

Don’t we get New Zealand, France, South Africa or Ireland in the Semi Final?
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Originally posted by Fscarlet Fscarlet wrote:

Originally posted by salmidach salmidach wrote:

I think Wales can and will win the group and that's not me being pro national team as I'm not.

Australia are in a really really bad place right now. Gone are the dark days of complacency under Pivac. Gatland won't allow Wales to be so bad as they were under pivac. 

I'm going for Wales topping the group and facing Japan in the Q/F (don't think England will get out of the group) and then Argentina in the S/F.

Don’t we get New Zealand, France, South Africa or Ireland in the Semi Final?


That is my understanding if you rule out Scotland of course. 
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Points: 18334 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aber-fan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 August 2023 at 2:53pm
I saw France v Australia:

The Aussies had a lot of territory and possession; their starting scrum looked very powerful; they had a very good ball-carrying 8, and two good and tall wings - the cross-kick to these was a key tactic. They were better than I expected...

but...

they gave away a lot of penalties for high tackles - not cardable offences in the ref's view, though another might have taken an 'adding up' view on that; they turned over a lot of ball; they had a kicker who had a complete off day (no guarantee to be repeated v Wales). They looked to be a work in progress.

So, definitely beatable, but I would certainly guard against complacency... if we let them have so much territory, will we defend as effectively? And - they were vulnerable to the pacy counter-attack from Penaud especially, and the other wing Villiere too - can Wales, with Rees-Zammitt and one other, do the same? They tended to defend narrow, and so were vulnerable after a few phases to a ball spun rapidly to the other wing. Passing has to be very long and accurate for that to work.

We'll see  how it goes.
“You cannot reason a man out of what he never reasoned himself into.” (Jonathan Swift)
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you need to have wings in your game plan to use them we play like fred flintsone is in charge of the backs.
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Originally posted by aber-fan aber-fan wrote:

I saw France v Australia:

The Aussies had a lot of territory and possession; their starting scrum looked very powerful; they had a very good ball-carrying 8, and two good and tall wings - the cross-kick to these was a key tactic. They were better than I expected...

but...

they gave away a lot of penalties for high tackles - not cardable offences in the ref's view, though another might have taken an 'adding up' view on that; they turned over a lot of ball; they had a kicker who had a complete off day (no guarantee to be repeated v Wales). They looked to be a work in progress.

So, definitely beatable, but I would certainly guard against complacency... if we let them have so much territory, will we defend as effectively? And - they were vulnerable to the pacy counter-attack from Penaud especially, and the other wing Villiere too - can Wales, with Rees-Zammitt and one other, do the same? They tended to defend narrow, and so were vulnerable after a few phases to a ball spun rapidly to the other wing. Passing has to be very long and accurate for that to work.

We'll see  how it goes.

I agree with you Aber. I too watched the game. The Aussie set piece is solid & they have an effective carrying game with their front row, Skelton & back rowers all capable carriers. Their 10 Carter Gordon is green yes but he is attack minded & they have Serevi to come back in at 12 who is a real handful. Both their wingers are dangerous. Gordon missed a lot of points off the T but they were all very close misses, well struck mostly from tight angles.

Most of the top 3/4 teams won't be losing too much sleep over them but they are more than capable of beating Wales thats for sure. Gatland does not have a pack capable of bullying them and I have to wonder where the points are going to come from apart from penalties. Bearing in mind the importance of accumulating points and the aerial battle it would not surprise me to see Halfpenny starting at 15 with Liam & LRZ on the flanks.

As for France it was a pleasure watching Jalibert grow into the role of No 10 during that game. He started very quietly but once he found his feet he was fantastic. If only Gatland was confident enough to give the 10 shirt to Costelow I would fancy our chances a little more. 
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I'm a big fan of Jalibert, always preferred him over Ntamack and I think it's a bit of a blessing in disguise that he's now got the 10 shirt for the WC.

Got a feeling that Oz will come good, they haven't had the easiest run of games (to put it mildly!) and agree that they've got a good set piece and some really dangerous backs, once they win a few games and get some confidence I think them and Argentina will be the strong teams on our side of the draw.

As for England there's a lot of big names who have possibly had a bit too much hype who aren't as good as the English press think, guys like Itoje, Genge, Vunipola, Daly, Earl, Willis etc. aren't the world class performers they think they are, they need more grunt like Curry, Ludlam, Hill (amazed he's not in the squad). They look like a team who don't even rate themselves.

Samoa look like the bigger threat to England's place than Japan, they've been much stronger than Japan over recent months and were very good in awful weather on the weekend.

I'd love to see some of the unfancied teams in their groups to get through, teams like Fiji, Samoa, Georgia and Scotland.
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