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Offside or What ??

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scarletman View Drop Down
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    Posted: 02 December 2008 at 2:24pm
Situation.
 
Team Blue are awarded a free kick on halfway. Team Red do not retire 10m. Team Red FB (15) sprints from behind the 10m line after the whistle to award the Free Kick, & tackles the Blue ball carrier BEFORE he takes the Free Kick.
 
Refs Decision ????????
 
Outcome ???????
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KID A Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 December 2008 at 2:36pm

penalty blue I would assume, maybe 10 yards advance too.

unless. you have to take it as soon as the ref blows his whistle or something? 



Edited by KID A - 02 December 2008 at 3:06pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scarletman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 December 2008 at 3:15pm
I'll leave this one run for a while ...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote salmidach Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 December 2008 at 4:17pm
play on
 
penalty to red, blue failed to release the ball, as the red FB played his whole team onside as soon as he touched the blue player thus enabling them to join the ruck.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KID A Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 December 2008 at 4:22pm
Originally posted by salmidach salmidach wrote:

play on
 
penalty to red, blue failed to release the ball, as the red FB played his whole team onside as soon as he touched the blue player thus enabling them to join the ruck.
 
How is the ball in play?
 
The blue player hasn't restarted the game yet.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wizard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 December 2008 at 4:31pm
Originally posted by scarletman scarletman wrote:

Situation.
 
Team Blue are awarded a free kick on halfway. Team Red do not retire 10m. Team Red FB (15) sprints from behind the 10m line after the whistle to award the Free Kick, & tackles the Blue ball carrier BEFORE he takes the Free Kick.
 
Refs Decision ????????
 
Outcome ???????
 
If Blue carrier has not make a move towards making a kick
 
then 2nd free kick on the red 10m line. This kick cannot be taken quickly.
 
However if the player moved to take the kick but had not made contact on ball with his foot, then play on.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Alun Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 December 2008 at 4:47pm
I'd say penalty blue and a stern talking to number 15 red.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scarletman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 December 2008 at 5:17pm
ALL WRONG !!!!! Scrum Red !
 
IRB LAW

Law 21 Penalty and Free Kicks

(i) Kick taken quickly. If the penalty or free kick is taken so quickly that players of the kicker’s team are still in front of the ball, they are not penalised for being offside. However, they must retire immediately. They must not stop retiring until they are onside.

They must not take part in the game until they are onside. This applies to all players of that team, whether they are inside or outside the playing area.

(j) In this situation, players become onside when they run behind the team mate who took the penalty or free kick, or when a team mate carrying the ball runs in front of them, or when a team mate who was behind the ball when it was kicked runs in front of them.

(k) An offside player cannot be put onside by any action of an opponent.

 

WHAT OPTIONS THE OPPOSING TEAM HAVE AT A FREE KICK Penaltcks

117

(e) Charging the free kick. Once they have retired the necessary distance, players of the opposing team may charge and try to prevent the kick being taken. They may charge the free kick as soon as the kicker starts to approach to kick.

(f) Preventing the free kick. If the opposing team charge and prevent the free kick being taken, the kick is disallowed. Play restarts with a scrum at the mark. The opposing team throw in the ball.



Edited by scarletman - 02 December 2008 at 5:18pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scarletman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 December 2008 at 5:21pm
By the way ..... Do NOT invoke this rule at any level unless there is a barrier between you & the spectators !! The IRB Law Book is small but a little awkward to carry around the pitch in a pair of shorts !!
On second thoughts ... NEVER apply this rule at Junior level !! Ouch Ouch!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Alun Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 December 2008 at 5:23pm
Originally posted by scarletman scarletman wrote:

By the way ..... Do NOT invoke this rule at any level unless there is a barrier between you & the spectators !! The IRB Law Book is small but a little awkward to carry around the pitch in a pair of shorts !!
On second thoughts ... NEVER apply this rule at Junior level !! Ouch Ouch!!


Well well - That's ridiculous law to be hones, and I should really have known!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scarletman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 December 2008 at 5:27pm
Originally posted by Alun Alun wrote:

Originally posted by scarletman scarletman wrote:

By the way ..... Do NOT invoke this rule at any level unless there is a barrier between you & the spectators !! The IRB Law Book is small but a little awkward to carry around the pitch in a pair of shorts !!
On second thoughts ... NEVER apply this rule at Junior level !! Ouch Ouch!!


Well well - That's ridiculous law to be hones, and I should really have known!!
 
I've been a Referee 5 years now & I've only used that once ... last Sunday ..... Nearly didn't see Christmas !! Dead
 
Also issued my first ever Red Card to a Spectator on the back of it !Confused


Edited by scarletman - 02 December 2008 at 5:27pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wizard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 December 2008 at 5:59pm
Originally posted by scarletman scarletman wrote:

ALL WRONG !!!!! Scrum Red !
 
IRB LAW

Law 21 Penalty and Free Kicks

(i) Kick taken quickly. If the penalty or free kick is taken so quickly that players of the kicker’s team are still in front of the ball, they are not penalised for being offside. However, they must retire immediately. They must not stop retiring until they are onside.

They must not take part in the game until they are onside. This applies to all players of that team, whether they are inside or outside the playing area.

(j) In this situation, players become onside when they run behind the team mate who took the penalty or free kick, or when a team mate carrying the ball runs in front of them, or when a team mate who was behind the ball when it was kicked runs in front of them.

(k) An offside player cannot be put onside by any action of an opponent.

 

WHAT OPTIONS THE OPPOSING TEAM HAVE AT A FREE KICK Penaltcks

117

(e) Charging the free kick. Once they have retired the necessary distance, players of the opposing team may charge and try to prevent the kick being taken. They may charge the free kick as soon as the kicker starts to approach to kick.

(f) Preventing the free kick. If the opposing team charge and prevent the free kick being taken, the kick is disallowed. Play restarts with a scrum at the mark. The opposing team throw in the ball.

 
Ok but if you check further down the law. It all comes down to what the ref beleives is the start of taking the kick.
 
ie
 
21 .8
(e) Charging the free kick. Once they have retired the necessary

distance, players of the opposing team may charge and try to

prevent the kick being taken. They may charge the free kick as

soon as the kicker starts to approach to kick.

Edit. didn't check out (f)
I hadn't read that bit.....


Edited by wizard - 02 December 2008 at 6:17pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KID A Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 December 2008 at 9:24am
when yous ay free kick, do you mean a tap penalty?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scarletman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 December 2008 at 1:34pm
Originally posted by KID A KID A wrote:

when yous ay free kick, do you mean a tap penalty?
 
No ... A Penalty is a Penalty & whether a team choose to "Tap" or kick, it can NOT be charged until the ball is kicked or tapped. (Signalled with a Straight Arm raised in the direction of the NON OFFENDING team).
 
A free kick is a lesser offence, (Signalled with a Bent Arm in the direction of the NON OFFENDING team).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KID A Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 December 2008 at 1:43pm
Yes but with a free kick short arm penalty (second picture), you can take a quick tap can't you?
 
So does the situation you described allow a charge down of a tap penalty? Or are you just talking about kicks from hand that can be charged down?
 
What happenned to you last weekend? was it a kick to touch or a tap and go?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aber-fan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 December 2008 at 2:48pm
It seems to me that the law positively invites teams who have a big edge in the scrum to prevent the kick being taken (I assume this is only OK so long as the tackler was 10 yards back).

Maybe the Scarlets, or some feeder teams, can take advantage of this - so long as they make sure the ref knows the law in advance!
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