Use of the TMO |
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John
Veteran Joined: 15 August 2004 Status: Offline Points: 4995 |
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Posted: 29 October 2016 at 10:56am |
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This query stems from a couple of incidents in last nights game- yupp we know them but I'll keep the questions general. We know that the officials on the field can refer to the TMO at any point and quite often do for matters other than foul play or the award of a try (for instance how to restart the game) but: 1. If a player alleges there has been foul play against him to the referee, is the referee obliged to make the TMO review the incident? 2. For an incident not foul play, can a player ask for a TMO review of a passage of play, principally to reverse a wrong decision?
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ap sior
Veteran Joined: 08 May 2005 Location: Wales Status: Online Points: 11414 |
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I'd add to that shouldn't the TMO intervene when there is an obvious mistake? Didn't see the game but it seems that the incident to YC A Shingler was a complete error/mistake.
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Mogwen
Veteran Joined: 07 April 2013 Location: Yma o Hyd Status: Offline Points: 4489 |
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And the punch on elias from myhill!! He even told the ref "I've been punched" laughable decision making
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The only true wisdom is in knowing you know nothing.
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ap sior
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I'm sure there'll be a citing for that. However isn't the TMo supposed to draw the attention of the ref to instances of foul play ?
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KID A
Moderator Group Joined: 16 August 2004 Location: Cardiff Status: Offline Points: 27572 |
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I don't think the referee is obliged to go to the TMO, but they can always ask the TMO just to check, whilst play is ongoing.
Nigel Owens ignoring Pascal Pape's accusation of a punch by Sean O'Brien is an example of when the referee should have gone to TMO as O'Brien was suspended for it. But I guess it encourages players to make more accusations. |
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KID A
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what minute in the match was this punch? |
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Mogwen
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At end of first half during scrumathon.
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KID A
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Can't see it anywhere on the footage |
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Mogwen
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Elias comes up from a scrum(don't know which one) , there a scuffle, his nose is bleeding and he tells the ref and shows the ref that he's been punched. Ref did nothing |
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ExileTom
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A good example of the TMO being used after an intervention would be the high tackle on Jonny Mcnicholl today. The touch judge suggested to the ref to go up to TMO and he rightly reversed the penalty and awarded a yellow card. I'd say we have a problem in the pro12 with how passive the touch judges are at times, rarely seeing them step in to advise the ref. Linton clearly needed help last night
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scarletman
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Eastern outpost
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Watching Brive v Clermont yesterday, The third Clermont try from Nakataci (spelling?) caused referral to the TMO. It was awarded when the TV couldn't show any separation of the hand from the ball, even though the ball bounced away with great height and distance.
A physics question, can you get downwards pressure on the ball when it's in contact with the ground and the ball still travel a long way after, other than by perfect timing? Andy Goode wasn't convinced it was a try and thought he'd lost control. However, due to lack of TV camera operator skill, the best angle showed nothing of the hand and ball, just the arm and body of the player. |
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John
Veteran Joined: 15 August 2004 Status: Offline Points: 4995 |
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Elias makes his allegation to the Referee at 35.15 on the game clock. Watch Parkes looking at the referee at the same time. If ever a player was assessing the referee for what he is, that was it. And that is why Parkes is a leader and should be our captain. You can't actually see any punch, just the reaction to it. Scarletman's link is so full of legaleese as to be impenetrable but it seems to imply that the TMO cannot draw the ref's attention to foul play, just to a minor offence that might invalidate a try. And that surely is wrong (and being widely ignored but not on friday?) But the fourth bullet point in the guiding principles would seem to be a complete shambles. At the very least, Poite and Linton need to have a discussion at length as to why they make so completely different uses of the TMO.
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haydn_davies
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Key for me:-
Any of the match officials, including the TMO, may recommend a review by the TMO. The reviews will take place in accordance with TMO protocol in place at the time which will be available on worldrugby.org/laws |
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KID A
Moderator Group Joined: 16 August 2004 Location: Cardiff Status: Offline Points: 27572 |
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Surely one of the linesmen or the TMO saw the Shingler fiasco and had to step in.There are newspapers in Australia and New Zealand carrying the story and it makes the Pro12 look embarrassing. |
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scarletman
Veteran Married with Kids - Close to Bankruptcy Joined: 18 August 2004 Location: Heol-y-Cyw Status: Offline Points: 12299 |
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The Law in Rugby Union doesn't mention downward pressure. It only quotes "Grounding the Ball" ! It only has to touch the ground on or over the line whilst the attacking player is in contact with the ball !
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