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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote Wasp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 April 2018 at 1:48pm
For context:
GDP of Ireland in 2017  = $337bn (not including NI)
GDP of NI in 2015 = $38bn
Total = $375bn (ball park)
GDP of Wales in 2015 (last I can find) = $85bn

So in terms of population and wealth, Wales is more akin to an Irish Province than the whole Island of Ireland!

I really don't get why so many people ignore this when complaining that the Scarlets don't have the crowds or budget that Leinster do.

It's like asking why Ireland are below the UK in the Olympic Medal tables
We're still still here, but I wish we were in an Anglo-Welsh
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PE SA Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 April 2018 at 2:28pm
Originally posted by errlloyd errlloyd wrote:

Lads - as I said in another thread, I'm a Leinster Lurker popping in. 

Just on the topic of Fardy, I will agree with the above statements that we're lucky to have access to some quality overseas signings. But I also think Leinster have been fairly moneyball with their foreigners. 

Fardy, Gibson-Park, Lowe and Nacewa are our only overseas players only Fardy is an international. (Nacewa had that weird Fiji cap years ago, but never wanted to play for them again). I actually think they're similar level to your foreigners, Barclay, McNichol, and Parkes. I don't list Beirne in that, because I acknowledge he would have stayed at Leinster if we had trusted him, and you deserve credit for making him a professional. I will be an incredibly bitter man when he plays for Munster though. 

Where I have some sympathy for Scarlets is that I understand we seem to have better ability to hold on to our players. I can't think of any top players who left Leinster for money who would have made the 23 this weekend, perhaps Madigan. When we lost Marty Moore I thought we were losing Ireland's starting tighthead, but Furlong and Porter are miles ahead of him now. In contrast, Liam Williams, Rhys Priestland, and George North may not have improved your starting 15 by much, but if they were still part of this scarlets team, their contribution all season and the competitive edge they brought to training would have driven standards. From our end, it seems the WRU are copying our model, and hopefully that leads to an improvement in off the field fortunes for the Welsh Regions. 
thanks for the comments looking in from the outside.
if WRU are copying the Irish model they certainly missed a few pages!!!
There are now similarities with Leinster/Munster/Scarlets with the shape up of the squads - scarlet boys representing the region sprinkled with southern hemisphere dust!
BUT, its only since Pivac took over we have got southern hem quality in our squad (bar Regan King) such as Johnny McNicholl, Werner Kruger etc. Kruger, a springbok, mcnicholl very close to all black call up before his move to us.
Before those signings, our overseas had a handful max of appearances in Super Rugby, if that, where majority came from currie cup.
Compare those to the likes that Munster/Ulster/Leinster have had over the last 10yrs...Rocky Elsom, Doug Howlett, Christian Cullen, Jim Williams, Ruaan Pienaar, Brad Thorn, CJ Stander, Jean de Villiers etc...established international players, cream of the crop.
The only signings in Welsh rugby in the regional era to rival those are possibly the Ospreys when they signed Collins, Holah, Marshall, TiaTia etc.
 
We are getting there slowly IMO, and on half the budget of the Irish provinces, we are doing remarkably well to bring in players of the quality that we have and keeping those local lads when they become hot property for the English/French.
 
But whilst the funding from the respective unions are HUGE in difference, lets not forget the amount European QFs, SFs, Finals and European Trophies Leinster have had. big cash there in prize money alone. It was said before that the QFs and Semis prize money 11+years ago kept the club afloat alone at one point...so 11years without anything, we have certainly been missing a big carrot.
 
Baby steps possibly, but with what we have, we are doing VERY well and maybe one day, Scarlets will be able to afford to bring in a player like Rocky Elsom!
 
I am convinced that last years Pro12 champion victory was the beginning. This squad have now backed that up with Semi Final in Europe and so far the title defence is going well...SO...we are at the start of a brilliant age. This squad now know what it takes to get to the Semi and seen what it takes to go on to the final (and probably win).
 
If the WRU match what the IRFU give, then great, but it wont happen any time soon, so lets enjoy the ride.
 
Good luck to Leinster, they have beaten all the top sides this season to get to the final.
Exeter, top of the premiership. Montpellier, top of the Top14. Glasgow, top of the Pro14. Sarries, Europes defending champions. Scarlets, Pro14 defending champions. To have gone through Europe unbeaten (so far) beating those sides, incredible.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KID A Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 April 2018 at 3:33pm
Originally posted by Wasp Wasp wrote:

To put that £1.5m/yr in context, Sarries charge £500k per year to be shirt sponsors!


I was looking at Toulon's budget recently - the club makes 4.8m Euros through it's restaurant every year.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Micro Duck Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 April 2018 at 3:55pm
Originally posted by KID A KID A wrote:

Originally posted by Wasp Wasp wrote:

To put that £1.5m/yr in context, Sarries charge £500k per year to be shirt sponsors!


I was looking at Toulon's budget recently - the club makes 4.8m Euros through it's restaurant every year.

What are they selling?!!!
New KALAMAFONI - BEAST MODE t-shirt now available online.

Plus a new 'Sosban Fach Scoundrels' range.

Paste the link below into your URL:
https://llanelli.teemill.com/
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote trident Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 April 2018 at 3:57pm
Originally posted by KID A KID A wrote:

Originally posted by Wasp Wasp wrote:

To put that £1.5m/yr in context, Sarries charge £500k per year to be shirt sponsors!


I was looking at Toulon's budget recently - the club makes 4.8m Euros through it's restaurant every year.


Even if that's just turnover and not profit, it has to be a bit fanciful.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote KID A Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 April 2018 at 4:04pm
Originally posted by trident trident wrote:

Originally posted by KID A KID A wrote:

Originally posted by Wasp Wasp wrote:

To put that £1.5m/yr in context, Sarries charge £500k per year to be shirt sponsors!


I was looking at Toulon's budget recently - the club makes 4.8m Euros through it's restaurant every year.


Even if that's just turnover and not profit, it has to be a bit fanciful.


They have to submit anticipated budgets every year before the season starts. They are heavily scrutinised by their financial authorities, despite what some think or they get relegated like some big clubs have in recent years. Toulon's budget is :

Euros:

Sponsorship : 11,2 m
Tickets : 10 m
Restaurant sales : 4,8 m
Public funding : 2,9 millions
TV Top 14 : 1,4 millions
TV H Cup : 891 000
Equipement manufacturer : 1 million
International release money : 180 000
Insurance for injuries : 800 000

That's a projected income of £29m. Insane money which easily funds the £10m player payroll.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 April 2018 at 4:21pm
Sponsorship of 11.2 million is unbelievable. We need to sign up their marketing director!!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aber-fan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 April 2018 at 4:26pm
Originally posted by Micro Duck Micro Duck wrote:

Originally posted by KID A KID A wrote:

Originally posted by Wasp Wasp wrote:

To put that £1.5m/yr in context, Sarries charge £500k per year to be shirt sponsors!


I was looking at Toulon's budget recently - the club makes 4.8m Euros through it's restaurant every year.

What are they selling?!!!

Well, you can see pictures of the dishes here:


though as far as I can see, there's no way to get the names/descriptions of the dishes - or the prices!
“You cannot reason a man out of what he never reasoned himself into.” (Jonathan Swift)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote trident Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 April 2018 at 4:40pm
Originally posted by KID A KID A wrote:

Originally posted by trident trident wrote:

Originally posted by KID A KID A wrote:

Originally posted by Wasp Wasp wrote:

To put that £1.5m/yr in context, Sarries charge £500k per year to be shirt sponsors!


I was looking at Toulon's budget recently - the club makes 4.8m Euros through it's restaurant every year.


Even if that's just turnover and not profit, it has to be a bit fanciful.


They have to submit anticipated budgets every year before the season starts. They are heavily scrutinised by their financial authorities, despite what some think or they get relegated like some big clubs have in recent years. Toulon's budget is :

Euros:

Sponsorship : 11,2 m
Tickets : 10 m
Restaurant sales : 4,8 m
Public funding : 2,9 millions
TV Top 14 : 1,4 millions
TV H Cup : 891 000
Equipement manufacturer : 1 million
International release money : 180 000
Insurance for injuries : 800 000

That's a projected income of £29m. Insane money which easily funds the £10m player payroll.


Didn't realise the context of that figure, thanks. I'd guess then that it includes all f&b sales including match day bars, rather than just the restaurant, in which case it makes more sense
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NobbySosban Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 April 2018 at 5:02pm
Originally posted by D06Blue D06Blue wrote:

Genuine question, why didn't they sell the naming rights at the start? It would surely have reduced the debt repayment timeframe? Or was it because it received money from the Millennium Commission that it had to be called Millennium Stadium? 

As others have said, part funding by Millennium Commission precluded commercial naming rights for a period of time.

As WRU CEO, Roger Lewis accelerated the interest payments during his tenure although it was a prolonged period of record low interest rates - effectively he wanted to keep the Regions poor in the hope of taking the keys off them if/when the independent benefactors had had enough. He held the Regions to ransom over a new Rugby Services Agreement, saying that if they didn't sign it, they would 'cease to exist'.

This didn't (quite) happen, but the Regions stuck together and came up with their own commercial plan, which included the reformed European competition, the proceeds of which needed to be channelled through the WRU for commercial reasons - WRU needed a minimum turnover in order to keep within the bank's mortgage Ts&Cs. Lewis eventually had to capitulate, and the tide had turned.

Then, when BT came along with a decent stadium naming rights offer, Lewis (already on notice in his job) managed to p___ them off, so they took their cash to the SRU and renamed Murrayfield. With the change, they became short-term stadium sponsors for Cardiff Arms Park & shirt sponsors of the other 3 Regions, then the Principality Building Society were hastily lined up on a great-value (for them) long-term deal to name the national stadium. Lewis's parting shot to hamstring the Welsh game for another generation - thanks, Woger.

That's the short answer, anyway. Wink


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RR1972 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 April 2018 at 5:04pm
Originally posted by Micro Duck Micro Duck wrote:

Originally posted by KID A KID A wrote:

Originally posted by Wasp Wasp wrote:

To put that £1.5m/yr in context, Sarries charge £500k per year to be shirt sponsors!


I was looking at Toulon's budget recently - the club makes 4.8m Euros through it's restaurant every year.

What are they selling?!!!
 
magic  beans  LOLLOLLOL
 
no rugby club restaurant is turning over 4.8 m euros a year, that is pure bunkum and smacks of cooking the books (like the pun?) .
 
As for Fardy damned good player and worth every penny leinster paid him as were the likes of thorne and elsom before him
 
 
Leinster  are excellent and picking up top class overseas players, yes they spend big but they still recruit well , plus they have a superb academy that brings through some great local players for them
 
 
It's pointless us carping about it and frankly it smacks of sour grapes, we are better than that
 
 
 
 
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RR1972 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 April 2018 at 5:05pm
Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Sponsorship of 11.2 million is unbelievable. We need to sign up their marketing director!!!
 
Wouldn't shock me if their benefactor is or an associated company is  their main sponsor , it's bit like how man city  and psg do it
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote reesytheexile Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 April 2018 at 5:09pm
Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

Originally posted by Micro Duck Micro Duck wrote:

Originally posted by KID A KID A wrote:

Originally posted by Wasp Wasp wrote:

To put that £1.5m/yr in context, Sarries charge £500k per year to be shirt sponsors!


I was looking at Toulon's budget recently - the club makes 4.8m Euros through it's restaurant every year.

What are they selling?!!!
 
magic  beans  LOLLOLLOL
 
no rugby club restaurant is turning over 4.8 m euros a year, that is pure bunkum and smacks of cooking the books (like the pun?) .
 
As for Fardy damned good player and worth every penny leinster paid him as were the likes of thorne and elsom before him
 
 
Leinster  are excellent and picking up top class overseas players, yes they spend big but they still recruit well , plus they have a superb academy that brings through some great local players for them
 
 
It's pointless us carping about it and frankly it smacks of sour grapes, we are better than that
 
 
 
 
 
 
Fortunate to have a number of good quality private rugby playing schools  in Dublin and area which are a good base of young local rugby talent for them. It is as it is though, and we have to do the best we can as RR says 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RR1972 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 April 2018 at 5:10pm
Originally posted by Wasp Wasp wrote:

For context:
GDP of Ireland in 2017  = $337bn (not including NI)
GDP of NI in 2015 = $38bn
Total = $375bn (ball park)
GDP of Wales in 2015 (last I can find) = $85bn

So in terms of population and wealth, Wales is more akin to an Irish Province than the whole Island of Ireland!

I really don't get why so many people ignore this when complaining that the Scarlets don't have the crowds or budget that Leinster do.

It's like asking why Ireland are below the UK in the Olympic Medal tables
 
didn't we know all this when we demanded stand alone status though?
 
the IRFU have all the players centrally contracted and run the provincial game, I doubt anyone on here wants that for the region do they?
 
 


Edited by RR1972 - 23 April 2018 at 5:11pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote D06Blue Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 April 2018 at 5:15pm
Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

Originally posted by Micro Duck Micro Duck wrote:

Originally posted by KID A KID A wrote:

Originally posted by Wasp Wasp wrote:

To put that £1.5m/yr in context, Sarries charge £500k per year to be shirt sponsors!


I was looking at Toulon's budget recently - the club makes 4.8m Euros through it's restaurant every year.

What are they selling?!!!
 
magic  beans  LOLLOLLOL
 
no rugby club restaurant is turning over 4.8 m euros a year, that is pure bunkum and smacks of cooking the books (like the pun?) .
 
As for Fardy damned good player and worth every penny leinster paid him as were the likes of thorne and elsom before him
 
 
Leinster  are excellent and picking up top class overseas players, yes they spend big but they still recruit well , plus they have a superb academy that brings through some great local players for them
 
 
It's pointless us carping about it and frankly it smacks of sour grapes, we are better than that
 
 
 
 
 
 


Why not? The RC Toulon restaurant is a full time business that is open every day serving food and drinks in the centre of town near the waterfront. They're not just churning out burgers on matchday. It is also open until 1am every matchday. It is quite conceivable that a business like that in a city like Toulon could be quite a success. Perhaps other clubs should look at this as an example of how they can increase revenue streams through other business ventures
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RR1972 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 April 2018 at 5:19pm
Originally posted by D06Blue D06Blue wrote:

Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

Originally posted by Micro Duck Micro Duck wrote:

Originally posted by KID A KID A wrote:

Originally posted by Wasp Wasp wrote:

To put that £1.5m/yr in context, Sarries charge £500k per year to be shirt sponsors!


I was looking at Toulon's budget recently - the club makes 4.8m Euros through it's restaurant every year.

What are they selling?!!!
 
magic  beans  LOLLOLLOL
 
no rugby club restaurant is turning over 4.8 m euros a year, that is pure bunkum and smacks of cooking the books (like the pun?) .
 
As for Fardy damned good player and worth every penny leinster paid him as were the likes of thorne and elsom before him
 
 
Leinster  are excellent and picking up top class overseas players, yes they spend big but they still recruit well , plus they have a superb academy that brings through some great local players for them
 
 
It's pointless us carping about it and frankly it smacks of sour grapes, we are better than that
 
 
 
 
 
 


Why not? The RC Toulon restaurant is a full time business that is open every day serving food and drinks in the centre of town near the waterfront. They're not just churning out burgers on matchday. It is also open until 1am every matchday. It is quite conceivable that a business like that in a city like Toulon could be quite a success. Perhaps other clubs should look at this as an example of how they can increase revenue streams through other business ventures
 
 
92,000 euro a week for 52 weeks a year? including offseason?
 
seems well ott to me, it's a rugby club   restaurant   not the ivy mind , plus toloun nice place as it is . is hardly paris or rome or London  and won't have the same footfall


Edited by RR1972 - 23 April 2018 at 5:22pm
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