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GPR - Rochester View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 August 2021 at 7:18am
Originally posted by SA14 SA14 wrote:

I’m not sure what tactics Gatland could have used to counteract South Africa’s slowing of the game down and using their coach as water boy as well as his hour long rant to influence refs in the tests. 

He could for one have instructed his team to raise their tempo at lineout time and suggested that his 9 sometimes took a quick penalty. Neither of these options were pursued. I am afraid Gats thought he could out Bok the Boks because they had not had gametime - he was wrong. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SA14 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 August 2021 at 10:14pm
I’m not sure what tactics Gatland could have used to counteract South Africa’s slowing of the game down and using their coach as water boy as well as his hour long rant to influence refs in the tests. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Eastern outpost Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 August 2021 at 6:14pm
Originally posted by scarletnut scarletnut wrote:

Originally posted by dyniol53 dyniol53 wrote:

Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Also I believe Scott Robertson must be the next cab off the rank in NZ so I don't see Gats waiting around in Waikato. 

I would be surprised if England aren’t sizing Robertson up post-2023

They do like to keep the coach English if they can, but not sure Rob Baxter, Steve Borthwick or Andy Farrell would want it
Robertson will probably be All Blacks coach by then 
If he is, how many of the assistant coaches will be looking for jobs in your opinion?

It’s out of interest, not a hark back to Brad’s tenure. It’s more of a whether playing the short or long game works out best in the end. Act in haste and repent at leisure kind of comparison.


Edited by Eastern outpost - 10 August 2021 at 6:16pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scarletnut Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 August 2021 at 3:52pm
Originally posted by dyniol53 dyniol53 wrote:

Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Also I believe Scott Robertson must be the next cab off the rank in NZ so I don't see Gats waiting around in Waikato. 

I would be surprised if England aren’t sizing Robertson up post-2023

They do like to keep the coach English if they can, but not sure Rob Baxter, Steve Borthwick or Andy Farrell would want it
Robertson will probably be All Blacks coach by then 
I still wake up late at night and think of what might have been when tim stimpson hit that jammy penalty1
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aber-fan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 August 2021 at 2:02pm
Originally posted by John John wrote:

Originally posted by SA14 SA14 wrote:

Originally posted by Wil Chips Wil Chips wrote:

Not just slow the game down, but allow on field coaching at each of those injuries. Poor.

Not forgetting the physio within yards of the team shouting support. 

It’ll be criminal if people class Gatland as a poor coach if they base it on this Lions tour. 

They were within minutes of drawing the series. 

He's  not a poor coach, he is a really good coach or at least he has been a really good coach. But the final quarter of that game was so similar to the final quarter of our WC semi. Some of the players were the same but actually not many in the closing stages but there was a reluctance to go out and win the game, a fear of being responsible for losing that resulted in losing. That's a coaching issue because it was a team mindset. And that is a flaw in Gatland's current and recent coaching cv. Coupled with a disastrous domestic season in NZ last year and  his record is a bit tarnished.

I think that's overstating things - indeed, it's possible to argue things another way around, and say that if the Lions had kicked for goal most of the time - instead of several times going to the corner, and only scoring one try - they'd have won the game.

And at the end, the mainly England pack contrived to get penalised twice at attacking scrums...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aber-fan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 August 2021 at 1:52pm
Originally posted by SA14 SA14 wrote:

Originally posted by aber-fan aber-fan wrote:

Originally posted by SA14 SA14 wrote:

All this criticism of Gatland. If they’d won that game the headlines would be of Gatland being the greatest coach of all time. Fine margins. 

For once, I agree with you.

Gatland's record speaks for itself. This time, he definitely made some selection errors, but at the end there was very little in it.

How many times have we seen it over the years. The infamous Pivac out cries on here turned into mr perfect. Then we started losing and it was Pivac out again. The life of a rugby coach. South Africa’s tactics were obvious. Slow the game down with ‘injuries’ I can more or less guarantee if we’d won the series he wouldn’t get half as much criticism. 

If the refs had been stricter on 'injuries' (though TBF many appeared genuine) and certainly on 'water breaks', it might have made a difference. 

Lions didn't help themselves by picking the static Murray for the second test, when they needed to keep things fast.

So - some self-inflicted problems and some not. Could have gone either way, especially if Wyn Jones had not been taken out - shades of what was done to Adam Jones in 2009.
“You cannot reason a man out of what he never reasoned himself into.” (Jonathan Swift)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dyniol53 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 August 2021 at 1:04pm
Originally posted by Dai38 Dai38 wrote:

I will always thank him for getting Wales competitive, while also thinking we could have moved on. 

Yep, he has left some wiggle room for Pivac and Stevo to aim for.

Play a more attractive style of rugby (I.e. score more tries)
Compete and beat the SH big three more consistently.
Reach a WC final. 

If they achieve 2 of those three, but don’t necessarily win any grand slams or 6N titles, I think they’ll be deemed a success.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dai38 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 August 2021 at 12:59pm
I have always thought that Gatland while being an excellent coach, has failed to develop himself & indeed teams he coached, because of his conservative attitude. His record in NZ is not good, while his temporary replacement was better, but we'll never know how much Gatland influenced that from his 1st season.

Personally I feel his future should lie in "consultancy" work, basically going in putting basics in place and for the teams coaching staff. He is 57, which is quite old now in top coaches.

If anything the Lions tour has shown him as one who failed to adapt to the huge SA team, our best bet was Russell running the show from the start, but that was not going to happen. I will always thank him for getting Wales competitive, while also thinking we could have moved on. 
Be careful when you pick up the stick.........IT MAY BE THE WRONG END!!!!!!!!!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dyniol53 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 August 2021 at 12:58pm
Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Also I believe Scott Robertson must be the next cab off the rank in NZ so I don't see Gats waiting around in Waikato. 

I would be surprised if England aren’t sizing Robertson up post-2023

They do like to keep the coach English if they can, but not sure Rob Baxter, Steve Borthwick or Andy Farrell would want it
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 August 2021 at 12:50pm
Originally posted by dyniol53 dyniol53 wrote:

He is a great coach and exactly as you say GPR what he did for cymru was always make us competitive. We could go into any game knowing it could go to the wire. That wasnt the case before him at all. 

The big unproven part of his CV is can a team he coaches beat Southern Hemisphere sides regularly? Or can he do it coaching in NZ?

Over the 3 Lions tours he’s finished 2-1, 1-1, 1-2 meaning he’s evens vs SH with what the best of the British isles have to offer. 

His welsh record vs the big 3 SH was very very poor, but perhaps the narrowness of many of the defeats is an indication of how good he is. 

He may well have to coach England if he wants to amend his reputation vs the big 3 SH but I think he’s done with NH rugby now and will coach in NZ to see if they offer him a job to take over the ABs but not sure he’s desperate for it.

Thats a very fair summation. I am not too sure about him being finished with Northern Hemisphere. I think the top International coaching job in World Rugby is the England gig - certainly from a remuneration point of view. If fast Eddie doesn't improve England's results markedly in the next 6 nations I could see Gats being offered the job as Scarletnut alluded to. With the forward power available and Marcus Smith to pull the strings at 10 he would fancy World Cup success in 2023.

Also I believe Scott Robertson must be the next cab off the rank in NZ so I don't see Gats waiting around in Waikato. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dyniol53 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 August 2021 at 12:37pm
He is a great coach and exactly as you say GPR what he did for cymru was always make us competitive. We could go into any game knowing it could go to the wire. That wasnt the case before him at all. 

The big unproven part of his CV is can a team he coaches beat Southern Hemisphere sides regularly? Or can he do it coaching in NZ?

Over the 3 Lions tours he’s finished 2-1, 1-1, 1-2 meaning he’s evens vs SH with what the best of the British isles have to offer. 

His welsh record vs the big 3 SH was very very poor, but perhaps the narrowness of many of the defeats is an indication of how good he is. 

He may well have to coach England if he wants to amend his reputation vs the big 3 SH but I think he’s done with NH rugby now and will coach in NZ to see if they offer him a job to take over the ABs but not sure he’s desperate for it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 August 2021 at 12:27pm
Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

GatlAnd hAs been a great coach. His cv shows that beyond doubt grand slams, heinkem cups,prenierships , winning lion series, itm cup etc. Not always easy to watch but his track record is excellent

Cannot fault Gatland's cv and as a Welshman I will always like him for the way he transformed our national team. However this series has done nothing positive for that CV or indeed Townsend's. The coach who came out of this with his reputation enhanced for me was Robin McBryde. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RR1972 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 August 2021 at 12:19pm
GatlAnd hAs been a great coach. His cv shows that beyond doubt grand slams, heinkem cups,prenierships , winning lion series, itm cup etc. Not always easy to watch but his track record is excellent
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote John Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 August 2021 at 12:12pm
Originally posted by SA14 SA14 wrote:

Originally posted by Wil Chips Wil Chips wrote:

Not just slow the game down, but allow on field coaching at each of those injuries. Poor.

Not forgetting the physio within yards of the team shouting support. 

It’ll be criminal if people class Gatland as a poor coach if they base it on this Lions tour. 

They were within minutes of drawing the series. 

He's  not a poor coach, he is a really good coach or at least he has been a really good coach. But the final quarter of that game was so similar to the final quarter of our WC semi. Some of the players were the same but actually not many in the closing stages but there was a reluctance to go out and win the game, a fear of being responsible for losing that resulted in losing. That's a coaching issue because it was a team mindset. And that is a flaw in Gatland's current and recent coaching cv. Coupled with a disastrous domestic season in NZ last year and  his record is a bit tarnished.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SA14 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 August 2021 at 11:36am
Originally posted by Wil Chips Wil Chips wrote:

Not just slow the game down, but allow on field coaching at each of those injuries. Poor.

Not forgetting the physio within yards of the team shouting support. 

It’ll be criminal if people class Gatland as a poor coach if they base it on this Lions tour. 

They were within minutes of drawing the series. 


Edited by SA14 - 10 August 2021 at 11:39am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Why Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 August 2021 at 6:53pm
Originally posted by Fscarlet Fscarlet wrote:

Originally posted by dyniol53 dyniol53 wrote:

I agree, but I think it’s genuinely obscene that there was 26m22seconds of ball in play time on Saturday. 26minutes of rugby!!

It would be good to speed it up so that players have to jog to scrums and lineouts if they want to catch their breath.

When we start playing next month (lower leagues) the ball will be in play a lot more given the law changes & the fact there will only be scrums for knock ons. Forward passes or not straight at lineout will be a tap & pass. 
Rugby league then.
Easy fix is offside line moved back 3 yards and scrum halves in play as soon as they touch ball again. Would cut out lots of dreadful box kicking and give attacking side more time with extra yards. 
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