Lions 2021 |
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GPR - Rochester
Veteran Joined: 01 December 2014 Location: Rhydcymerau Status: Online Points: 18784 |
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He could for one have instructed his team to raise their tempo at lineout time and suggested that his 9 sometimes took a quick penalty. Neither of these options were pursued. I am afraid Gats thought he could out Bok the Boks because they had not had gametime - he was wrong.
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SA14
Moderator Group Wwwww mince Joined: 15 August 2004 Location: Pemberton Status: Offline Points: 23830 |
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I’m not sure what tactics Gatland could have used to counteract South Africa’s slowing of the game down and using their coach as water boy as well as his hour long rant to influence refs in the tests.
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Eastern outpost
Rambler Joined: 13 March 2012 Location: South Suffolk Status: Offline Points: 21936 |
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It’s out of interest, not a hark back to Brad’s tenure. It’s more of a whether playing the short or long game works out best in the end. Act in haste and repent at leisure kind of comparison.
Edited by Eastern outpost - 10 August 2021 at 6:16pm |
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In a world where you can be anything – Be Kind.
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scarletnut
Veteran Joined: 28 April 2009 Status: Offline Points: 14170 |
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I still wake up late at night and think of what might have been when tim stimpson hit that jammy penalty1
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aber-fan
Veteran Joined: 25 October 2004 Location: Wales Status: Offline Points: 18857 |
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I think that's overstating things - indeed, it's possible to argue things another way around, and say that if the Lions had kicked for goal most of the time - instead of several times going to the corner, and only scoring one try - they'd have won the game. And at the end, the mainly England pack contrived to get penalised twice at attacking scrums...
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“You cannot reason a man out of what he never reasoned himself into.” (Jonathan Swift)
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aber-fan
Veteran Joined: 25 October 2004 Location: Wales Status: Offline Points: 18857 |
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If the refs had been stricter on 'injuries' (though TBF many appeared genuine) and certainly on 'water breaks', it might have made a difference. Lions didn't help themselves by picking the static Murray for the second test, when they needed to keep things fast. So - some self-inflicted problems and some not. Could have gone either way, especially if Wyn Jones had not been taken out - shades of what was done to Adam Jones in 2009.
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“You cannot reason a man out of what he never reasoned himself into.” (Jonathan Swift)
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dyniol53
Veteran Joined: 08 April 2018 Location: Llundain Status: Offline Points: 1949 |
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Yep, he has left some wiggle room for Pivac and Stevo to aim for. Play a more attractive style of rugby (I.e. score more tries) Compete and beat the SH big three more consistently. Reach a WC final. If they achieve 2 of those three, but don’t necessarily win any grand slams or 6N titles, I think they’ll be deemed a success.
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Dai38
Veteran Joined: 15 April 2009 Location: Llanelli Status: Offline Points: 2885 |
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I have always thought that Gatland while being an excellent coach, has failed to develop himself & indeed teams he coached, because of his conservative attitude. His record in NZ is not good, while his temporary replacement was better, but we'll never know how much Gatland influenced that from his 1st season.
Personally I feel his future should lie in "consultancy" work, basically going in putting basics in place and for the teams coaching staff. He is 57, which is quite old now in top coaches. If anything the Lions tour has shown him as one who failed to adapt to the huge SA team, our best bet was Russell running the show from the start, but that was not going to happen. I will always thank him for getting Wales competitive, while also thinking we could have moved on.
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Be careful when you pick up the stick.........IT MAY BE THE WRONG END!!!!!!!!!!
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dyniol53
Veteran Joined: 08 April 2018 Location: Llundain Status: Offline Points: 1949 |
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I would be surprised if England aren’t sizing Robertson up post-2023 They do like to keep the coach English if they can, but not sure Rob Baxter, Steve Borthwick or Andy Farrell would want it
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GPR - Rochester
Veteran Joined: 01 December 2014 Location: Rhydcymerau Status: Online Points: 18784 |
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Thats a very fair summation. I am not too sure about him being finished with Northern Hemisphere. I think the top International coaching job in World Rugby is the England gig - certainly from a remuneration point of view. If fast Eddie doesn't improve England's results markedly in the next 6 nations I could see Gats being offered the job as Scarletnut alluded to. With the forward power available and Marcus Smith to pull the strings at 10 he would fancy World Cup success in 2023. Also I believe Scott Robertson must be the next cab off the rank in NZ so I don't see Gats waiting around in Waikato.
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dyniol53
Veteran Joined: 08 April 2018 Location: Llundain Status: Offline Points: 1949 |
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He is a great coach and exactly as you say GPR what he did for cymru was always make us competitive. We could go into any game knowing it could go to the wire. That wasnt the case before him at all.
The big unproven part of his CV is can a team he coaches beat Southern Hemisphere sides regularly? Or can he do it coaching in NZ? Over the 3 Lions tours he’s finished 2-1, 1-1, 1-2 meaning he’s evens vs SH with what the best of the British isles have to offer. His welsh record vs the big 3 SH was very very poor, but perhaps the narrowness of many of the defeats is an indication of how good he is. He may well have to coach England if he wants to amend his reputation vs the big 3 SH but I think he’s done with NH rugby now and will coach in NZ to see if they offer him a job to take over the ABs but not sure he’s desperate for it.
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GPR - Rochester
Veteran Joined: 01 December 2014 Location: Rhydcymerau Status: Online Points: 18784 |
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Cannot fault Gatland's cv and as a Welshman I will always like him for the way he transformed our national team. However this series has done nothing positive for that CV or indeed Townsend's. The coach who came out of this with his reputation enhanced for me was Robin McBryde.
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RR1972
Veteran Joined: 27 April 2009 Status: Online Points: 18271 |
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GatlAnd hAs been a great coach. His cv shows that beyond doubt grand slams, heinkem cups,prenierships , winning lion series, itm cup etc. Not always easy to watch but his track record is excellent
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John
Veteran Joined: 15 August 2004 Status: Offline Points: 4995 |
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He's not a poor coach, he is a really good coach or at least he has been a really good coach. But the final quarter of that game was so similar to the final quarter of our WC semi. Some of the players were the same but actually not many in the closing stages but there was a reluctance to go out and win the game, a fear of being responsible for losing that resulted in losing. That's a coaching issue because it was a team mindset. And that is a flaw in Gatland's current and recent coaching cv. Coupled with a disastrous domestic season in NZ last year and his record is a bit tarnished.
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SA14
Moderator Group Wwwww mince Joined: 15 August 2004 Location: Pemberton Status: Offline Points: 23830 |
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Not forgetting the physio within yards of the team shouting support. It’ll be criminal if people class Gatland as a poor coach if they base it on this Lions tour. They were within minutes of drawing the series.
Edited by SA14 - 10 August 2021 at 11:39am |
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Why
Veteran Joined: 22 August 2010 Status: Online Points: 8738 |
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Rugby league then. Easy fix is offside line moved back 3 yards and scrum halves in play as soon as they touch ball again. Would cut out lots of dreadful box kicking and give attacking side more time with extra yards.
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She asks why i still can't answer. I guess its in the blood.
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