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RR1972 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RR1972 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 August 2021 at 12:45pm
Liam blew a try so did curry poor play by both of them. Not saying they cost us the match but they were both key moments in the game.  Still think we should have kicked those pens not gone for trys but it’s all history now
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Dai38 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dai38 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 August 2021 at 12:51pm
I doubt if we'll ever know, but it would be interesting to know why Liam did not pass the ball, because he normally does. I also wonder why Adams wasn't screaming for the pass, he may have. So many things happen.

Looking at the time and back he should have, so why didn't he, he's not that selfish !!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bills burr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 August 2021 at 12:57pm
Gats was probably the wrong choice as head coach as hes not been coaching in the UK for 2 years, some of his selections showed he was a bit out of touch with british and irish rugby. It stemmed from there are the selections and tactics got more bizarre and negative.

The biggest howlers were dropping player of the tour beirne at 6, dropping faletau and giving penalty machine curry all 3 tests at 7? Why? What did he contribute other than gifting mindless penalties....bring in vunipola was another obvious failure, he is simply not good enough in the scrums.
Russell was marginally better than biggar, who was better than farrell. But even russell was kicking ball away aimlessly, under the cloud of their negative strategy. Gareth davies should have had a chance, by far the quickest most dangerous of the 3 scrum halves...price was ok but Murray is past his best.
In the backs, dropping josh adams for the first few tests because his missus had a baby? What a weak excuse to use to drop our top try scorer and best finisher? LRZ not being involved at all was incredibly negative, VDM and watson contributed nothing to the test series, offered no threat.
Liam shouldnt have even been on the tour imo , 3 scarlets games all season , 1 red card, come off it, his inclusion was ridiculous. Hes a talented committed player, but with no games under his belt no form shown and his propensity to crack under pressure were inevitable. I thought aki looked better at 12, henshaw perhaps should have been 13 from the start, he had a solid series.
Overall wrong approach wrong selections negative tactics wasted a golden chance to beat a side who had only played 1 test in 20 months


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SA14 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 August 2021 at 1:27pm
All this criticism of Gatland. If they’d won that game the headlines would be of Gatland being the greatest coach of all time. Fine margins. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bills burr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 August 2021 at 1:59pm
Originally posted by SA14 SA14 wrote:

All this criticism of Gatland. If they’d won that game the headlines would be of Gatland being the greatest coach of all time. Fine margins. 

Fine margins yes but he make crucial mistakes and being away from UK and irish rugby for the past 2 years is hardly ideal preparation. I said it before the tour before each test he was too negative in selection and approach.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mogwen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 August 2021 at 2:53pm
I cant believe that Gatlan is being touted as 2025 lions coach. Hes had 2 poor(v poor if honest) seasons in NZ. I dont tjink he won a game in his first season. His choices and selections in SA have been anything but uninspiring. I think the midas touch he once had has certainly gone. A big No Thanks from me. P.S. just incase some posters will say( as im surevthey will) this would be my opinion even if thry had won yesterdsy.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aber-fan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 August 2021 at 3:01pm
Originally posted by SA14 SA14 wrote:

All this criticism of Gatland. If they’d won that game the headlines would be of Gatland being the greatest coach of all time. Fine margins. 

For once, I agree with you.

Gatland's record speaks for itself. This time, he definitely made some selection errors, but at the end there was very little in it.
“You cannot reason a man out of what he never reasoned himself into.” (Jonathan Swift)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sosban89 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 August 2021 at 3:17pm
A very even test series against the world champions and it was lost by the smallest margins. I think people assume it is easier than it is to just take 4 nations and merge them into some sort of elite playing unit with minimal preparation. 

Over the 3 games Lions were probably the better team also. Maybe if curry didn't start 3 games we'd have won.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Legendinmybathroom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 August 2021 at 3:37pm
Poor tour and awful rugby on display.  The lions got what they deserved for going back to type in the tests and trying to beat SA up front.  They were so arrogant and confident that they even turned down simple penalties (in front of the posts from close range) to kick to the corner and try and rumble over from the resultant line outs.
If we’d taken the penalties on offer then SA would have been chasing the game at the end and wouldn’t have been able to kick for goal with 2 minutes left.
Wyn’s presence in the front row showed what the lions missed in the first 2 tests, Ken did all that was asked of him as a lions hooker, whilst Liam proved that he was short on match fitness and not the play that he was in NZ in 2018.
Gatland’s selection policy throughout the tour was baffling, to drop Tadhg from the match day squad was just mind blowing, he’s been immense in the loose and a reliable option at the back of the line out.
Selecting the penalty machine of Curry at 7 for all 3 tests was again baffling as he’s a guaranteed 6/9 point head start for the opposition, although he does offer more at test level than Watson.
I have to agree with the sentiments on here about Gatland being the wrong head coach for this tour due to him being based back in NZ for the past 18 months.
Also, his game plan has been very predictable (but sometimes unstoppable), which makes the job of the opposition a little easier.
If another coach had been selected then a more expansive, faster flowing game plan may have caused the Boks more problems.
You could see why Gatland and the lions were so desperate for the tour to go ahead, with the Boks looking totally undercooked in the opening test, having not played a competitive match since the World Cup Final, it was their best chance of beating the Boks on home soil.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dyniol53 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 August 2021 at 3:54pm
Originally posted by Legendinmybathroom Legendinmybathroom wrote:

I have to agree with the sentiments on here about Gatland being the wrong head coach for this tour due to him being based back in NZ for the past 18 months.
Also, his game plan has been very predictable (but sometimes unstoppable), which makes the job of the opposition a little easier.
If another coach had been selected then a more expansive, faster flowing game plan may have caused the Boks more problems.

I agree with all your points - but why does Gatland get all the blame for the Lions having a dull attack? What does Townsend do on tour? 

What that game showed me was not that the game plan was wrong more so that Russell is a very skilful attacking player and the Lions didn’t have another player like him. 

I also agree about Curry, he’s got the physical attributes but not sure he’s got the nous of a Hooper or a Tipuric. On reflection of the 3 tests we’d have been better off with Watson or Navidi at 7
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dyniol53 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 August 2021 at 4:03pm
Originally posted by aber-fan aber-fan wrote:

Originally posted by SA14 SA14 wrote:

All this criticism of Gatland. If they’d won that game the headlines would be of Gatland being the greatest coach of all time. Fine margins. 

For once, I agree with you.

Gatland's record speaks for itself. This time, he definitely made some selection errors, but at the end there was very little in it.

I think the fairest criticism of Gatland is that his teams always seem to take it to the wire. It’s a positive description as well as a negative one IMO. 

But the number of tests that are within 1 score means he’s always vulnerable to losing because of 1 mistake or 1 ref decision. 

Sometimes when England play well under Eddie Jones they basically win the game in the 1st half and the 2nd half is a game do catch up. Other than the Lions 3rd test v Aus in 13 and Ireland in 2019 I can’t recall a game where a Gatland side convincingly beat another top quality team. 

It’s always painfully close.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aber-fan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 August 2021 at 5:27pm
Originally posted by dyniol53 dyniol53 wrote:

Originally posted by aber-fan aber-fan wrote:

Originally posted by SA14 SA14 wrote:

All this criticism of Gatland. If they’d won that game the headlines would be of Gatland being the greatest coach of all time. Fine margins. 

For once, I agree with you.

Gatland's record speaks for itself. This time, he definitely made some selection errors, but at the end there was very little in it.

I think the fairest criticism of Gatland is that his teams always seem to take it to the wire. It’s a positive description as well as a negative one IMO. 

But the number of tests that are within 1 score means he’s always vulnerable to losing because of 1 mistake or 1 ref decision. 

Sometimes when England play well under Eddie Jones they basically win the game in the 1st half and the 2nd half is a game do catch up. Other than the Lions 3rd test v Aus in 13 and Ireland in 2019 I can’t recall a game where a Gatland side convincingly beat another top quality team. 

It’s always painfully close.

Really?

That 30-3 win v England in 2013 must have been a mirage then - or your memory is failing, just a bit!


I would think there are other examples, but despite advancing years, I find it hard to forget that one!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sosban89 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 August 2021 at 5:40pm
There have been plenty of crushing wins. but the nature of international rugby is that it does tend to be very close against all the top teams. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rob Hunt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 August 2021 at 5:45pm
Originally posted by aber-fan aber-fan wrote:

Originally posted by dyniol53 dyniol53 wrote:

Originally posted by aber-fan aber-fan wrote:

Originally posted by SA14 SA14 wrote:

All this criticism of Gatland. If they’d won that game the headlines would be of Gatland being the greatest coach of all time. Fine margins. 

For once, I agree with you.

Gatland's record speaks for itself. This time, he definitely made some selection errors, but at the end there was very little in it.

I think the fairest criticism of Gatland is that his teams always seem to take it to the wire. It’s a positive description as well as a negative one IMO. 

But the number of tests that are within 1 score means he’s always vulnerable to losing because of 1 mistake or 1 ref decision. 

Sometimes when England play well under Eddie Jones they basically win the game in the 1st half and the 2nd half is a game do catch up. Other than the Lions 3rd test v Aus in 13 and Ireland in 2019 I can’t recall a game where a Gatland side convincingly beat another top quality team. 

It’s always painfully close.

Really?

That 30-3 win v England in 2013 must have been a mirage then - or your memory is failing, just a bit!


I would think there are other examples, but despite advancing years, I find it hard to forget that one!
If you care to check your link, you’ll see that the Welsh coach was Rob Howley. Gatland was on a sabbatical to prepare  for the Lions tour.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wil Chips Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 August 2021 at 5:46pm
AF and I lived through the golden era in the 1970’s…and then the next 20+ years of humiliation and embarrassments…defeats to Canada, Romania, Western Samoa…and regular pastings by Tier 1 teams ( inc SA scoring 97 points against us).

We both know Wales can’t naturally maintain a seat at the top table simply by virtue of our size and talent pool.

Good coaching gets Wales playing at their optimum. In that context, Gats’ record is hugely impressive. I’ll take an ugly win against a Tier 1 side all day long,

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bills burr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 August 2021 at 11:03pm
Im a big fan of gats I just think this was a tour too far for him, especially as I say hed not coaching in Uk for 2 years. 
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