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roy munster View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roy munster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 March 2021 at 2:01pm
North is possibly the player of the tournament atm, if he goes well saturday he surely will start for the lions

Edited by roy munster - 15 March 2021 at 2:01pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aber-fan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 March 2021 at 2:05pm
Originally posted by roy munster roy munster wrote:

North is possibly the player of the tournament atm, if he goes well saturday he surely will start for the lions

He's playing well, but is yet to show full confidence in terms of positioning.

He's definitely in the frame, though.
“You cannot reason a man out of what he never reasoned himself into.” (Jonathan Swift)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scarletnut Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 March 2021 at 2:09pm
Originally posted by aber-fan aber-fan wrote:

A lot of very interesting points here...

At 15, surely it has to be between Hogg and Liam - I'd take Liam (taller, probably better overall in defence, more of a nuisance around the field, not much inferior -if at all - in attack)... but a toss-up.

Wings - on current form, LRZ is a cert; I prefer Watson to May; Adams is sure to tour, I think - but what about Stockdale? Bound to be there if fit. 5 wingers there - who misses out? Difficult!

Centres - Henshaw the only cert; Ringrose rather poor yesterday; Huw Jones better than Scottish starters; Farrell - not perfect at 10, or at 12 - but a 'test match animal', as is North; Foxy - still working his way back to full fitness. 

10 - no point comparing Sexton and Russell on yesterday's game, as the Irish forwards crushed the Scots. IF Gatland wanted to develop a more open game, he'd have to pick Russell - a sort of part-time genius - but we al know how conservative he tends to be, so if that continues it'll either be Sexton, Biggar or Farrell.

9 - I like Cawdor or Hardy (obs.!), but YOungs or Gibson-Park in with a shout.

1 - Wyn Jones (some comedians in the press are touting non-scrummaging fat boy Mako V - they have got to be joking.
2 - the Sheriff
3 - Furlong or Francis
4 - Ryan
5 - AWJ (capt.)
6 - Beirne or Navidi
7 Tips or Watson
8 Faletau ( Billy V not fit enough, yet... Stander back-up)

So then - what I think might be the best 15/23 ATM if nothing changes:

15 Liam
14 LRZ
13 Henshaw
12 Farrell
11 Watson
10 Russell
9 Cawdor

8 Faletau
7 Navidi
6 Beirne
5 AWJ (capt.)
4 Ryan
3 Furlong
2 Ken
1 Wyn

16 George
17 Healy
18 Francis
19 Itoje
20 Tipric
21 Hardy
22 Biggar
23 Hogg

That's a sort of mix of pragmatic players with X-factor players. I'd expect Gatland to go even more pragmatic - doubt he'll start Russell, but he could change a game, so may be benched. If he continues to perform, LRZ is a must on one wing - the other is a dogfight between Watson, May, Adams and Stockdale, if fit.
Centre is a weak area, unless Foxy returns to full fitness and power.
Lots of 9s at about the same level.
Itoje misses out as he's a penalty machine ATM. Ryan is excellent, in any case.

Not seen enough of some new guys - Connors was apparently outstanding yesterday, but Gatland favours experience, so...

I wouldn’t have Healey near it. He’s a poor scrummager. Look what Vincent Koch did to him in a recent Champions Cup quarter final 
I still wake up late at night and think of what might have been when tim stimpson hit that jammy penalty1
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jones2004 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 March 2021 at 2:26pm
I’d say the Lions have to start with pretty much their strongest scrummaging front row. The RWC final showed what happened when you’re scrum is even slightly off against SA, and if we don’t have a scrum for the series we don’t have a hope. That’s why I wouldn’t have Mako Vunipola close to the team, as good as he is around the field, and why Wyn Jones has surely got a very good chance of being the starting LH.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fscarlet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 March 2021 at 2:27pm
Originally posted by scarletnut scarletnut wrote:

Originally posted by aber-fan aber-fan wrote:

A lot of very interesting points here...

At 15, surely it has to be between Hogg and Liam - I'd take Liam (taller, probably better overall in defence, more of a nuisance around the field, not much inferior -if at all - in attack)... but a toss-up.

Wings - on current form, LRZ is a cert; I prefer Watson to May; Adams is sure to tour, I think - but what about Stockdale? Bound to be there if fit. 5 wingers there - who misses out? Difficult!

Centres - Henshaw the only cert; Ringrose rather poor yesterday; Huw Jones better than Scottish starters; Farrell - not perfect at 10, or at 12 - but a 'test match animal', as is North; Foxy - still working his way back to full fitness. 

10 - no point comparing Sexton and Russell on yesterday's game, as the Irish forwards crushed the Scots. IF Gatland wanted to develop a more open game, he'd have to pick Russell - a sort of part-time genius - but we al know how conservative he tends to be, so if that continues it'll either be Sexton, Biggar or Farrell.

9 - I like Cawdor or Hardy (obs.!), but YOungs or Gibson-Park in with a shout.

1 - Wyn Jones (some comedians in the press are touting non-scrummaging fat boy Mako V - they have got to be joking.
2 - the Sheriff
3 - Furlong or Francis
4 - Ryan
5 - AWJ (capt.)
6 - Beirne or Navidi
7 Tips or Watson
8 Faletau ( Billy V not fit enough, yet... Stander back-up)

So then - what I think might be the best 15/23 ATM if nothing changes:

15 Liam
14 LRZ
13 Henshaw
12 Farrell
11 Watson
10 Russell
9 Cawdor

8 Faletau
7 Navidi
6 Beirne
5 AWJ (capt.)
4 Ryan
3 Furlong
2 Ken
1 Wyn

16 George
17 Healy
18 Francis
19 Itoje
20 Tipric
21 Hardy
22 Biggar
23 Hogg

That's a sort of mix of pragmatic players with X-factor players. I'd expect Gatland to go even more pragmatic - doubt he'll start Russell, but he could change a game, so may be benched. If he continues to perform, LRZ is a must on one wing - the other is a dogfight between Watson, May, Adams and Stockdale, if fit.
Centre is a weak area, unless Foxy returns to full fitness and power.
Lots of 9s at about the same level.
Itoje misses out as he's a penalty machine ATM. Ryan is excellent, in any case.

Not seen enough of some new guys - Connors was apparently outstanding yesterday, but Gatland favours experience, so...

I wouldn’t have Healey near it. He’s a poor scrummager. Look what Vincent Koch did to him in a recent Champions Cup quarter final 

Healy got away with so much on the weekend!! 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 March 2021 at 2:45pm
Originally posted by scarletnut scarletnut wrote:

Originally posted by aber-fan aber-fan wrote:

A lot of very interesting points here...

At 15, surely it has to be between Hogg and Liam - I'd take Liam (taller, probably better overall in defence, more of a nuisance around the field, not much inferior -if at all - in attack)... but a toss-up.

Wings - on current form, LRZ is a cert; I prefer Watson to May; Adams is sure to tour, I think - but what about Stockdale? Bound to be there if fit. 5 wingers there - who misses out? Difficult!

Centres - Henshaw the only cert; Ringrose rather poor yesterday; Huw Jones better than Scottish starters; Farrell - not perfect at 10, or at 12 - but a 'test match animal', as is North; Foxy - still working his way back to full fitness. 

10 - no point comparing Sexton and Russell on yesterday's game, as the Irish forwards crushed the Scots. IF Gatland wanted to develop a more open game, he'd have to pick Russell - a sort of part-time genius - but we al know how conservative he tends to be, so if that continues it'll either be Sexton, Biggar or Farrell.

9 - I like Cawdor or Hardy (obs.!), but YOungs or Gibson-Park in with a shout.

1 - Wyn Jones (some comedians in the press are touting non-scrummaging fat boy Mako V - they have got to be joking.
2 - the Sheriff
3 - Furlong or Francis
4 - Ryan
5 - AWJ (capt.)
6 - Beirne or Navidi
7 Tips or Watson
8 Faletau ( Billy V not fit enough, yet... Stander back-up)

So then - what I think might be the best 15/23 ATM if nothing changes:

15 Liam
14 LRZ
13 Henshaw
12 Farrell
11 Watson
10 Russell
9 Cawdor

8 Faletau
7 Navidi
6 Beirne
5 AWJ (capt.)
4 Ryan
3 Furlong
2 Ken
1 Wyn

16 George
17 Healy
18 Francis
19 Itoje
20 Tipric
21 Hardy
22 Biggar
23 Hogg

That's a sort of mix of pragmatic players with X-factor players. I'd expect Gatland to go even more pragmatic - doubt he'll start Russell, but he could change a game, so may be benched. If he continues to perform, LRZ is a must on one wing - the other is a dogfight between Watson, May, Adams and Stockdale, if fit.
Centre is a weak area, unless Foxy returns to full fitness and power.
Lots of 9s at about the same level.
Itoje misses out as he's a penalty machine ATM. Ryan is excellent, in any case.

Not seen enough of some new guys - Connors was apparently outstanding yesterday, but Gatland favours experience, so...

I wouldn’t have Healey near it. He’s a poor scrummager. Look what Vincent Koch did to him in a recent Champions Cup quarter final 

I agree Steff - Wyn, Sutherland & Mako for me - if Marler is available I would perhaps take him before Mako. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dyniol53 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 March 2021 at 3:08pm
Interesting that Mako is out of favour for a few on here - I’ve never thought he was a weakness in the scrum but I play 9 so have no idea haha.

Got to say the Sarries boys are in a tricky situation. This game vs Ireland really is the last chance for them to stick their hands up.

How will Mako fare vs Furlong?
Will Jamie George even start?
How many penalties does Itoje have to give away to make him too much of a risk to start?
Will Billy V ever be as effective as he was pre-WC? Stander and Faletau look super strong to me.
Farrell is pretty much playing head to head for a place with Sexton IMO...
Daly already gone.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roy munster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 March 2021 at 3:19pm
Mako has always been known as world class around the field but not always world class scrummager...A bit like gethin jenkins who was a decent scrummager but not as specialised as say adam jones
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roy munster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 March 2021 at 3:23pm
Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Originally posted by scarletnut scarletnut wrote:

Originally posted by aber-fan aber-fan wrote:

A lot of very interesting points here...

At 15, surely it has to be between Hogg and Liam - I'd take Liam (taller, probably better overall in defence, more of a nuisance around the field, not much inferior -if at all - in attack)... but a toss-up.

Wings - on current form, LRZ is a cert; I prefer Watson to May; Adams is sure to tour, I think - but what about Stockdale? Bound to be there if fit. 5 wingers there - who misses out? Difficult!

Centres - Henshaw the only cert; Ringrose rather poor yesterday; Huw Jones better than Scottish starters; Farrell - not perfect at 10, or at 12 - but a 'test match animal', as is North; Foxy - still working his way back to full fitness. 

10 - no point comparing Sexton and Russell on yesterday's game, as the Irish forwards crushed the Scots. IF Gatland wanted to develop a more open game, he'd have to pick Russell - a sort of part-time genius - but we al know how conservative he tends to be, so if that continues it'll either be Sexton, Biggar or Farrell.

9 - I like Cawdor or Hardy (obs.!), but YOungs or Gibson-Park in with a shout.

1 - Wyn Jones (some comedians in the press are touting non-scrummaging fat boy Mako V - they have got to be joking.
2 - the Sheriff
3 - Furlong or Francis
4 - Ryan
5 - AWJ (capt.)
6 - Beirne or Navidi
7 Tips or Watson
8 Faletau ( Billy V not fit enough, yet... Stander back-up)

So then - what I think might be the best 15/23 ATM if nothing changes:

15 Liam
14 LRZ
13 Henshaw
12 Farrell
11 Watson
10 Russell
9 Cawdor

8 Faletau
7 Navidi
6 Beirne
5 AWJ (capt.)
4 Ryan
3 Furlong
2 Ken
1 Wyn

16 George
17 Healy
18 Francis
19 Itoje
20 Tipric
21 Hardy
22 Biggar
23 Hogg

That's a sort of mix of pragmatic players with X-factor players. I'd expect Gatland to go even more pragmatic - doubt he'll start Russell, but he could change a game, so may be benched. If he continues to perform, LRZ is a must on one wing - the other is a dogfight between Watson, May, Adams and Stockdale, if fit.
Centre is a weak area, unless Foxy returns to full fitness and power.
Lots of 9s at about the same level.
Itoje misses out as he's a penalty machine ATM. Ryan is excellent, in any case.

Not seen enough of some new guys - Connors was apparently outstanding yesterday, but Gatland favours experience, so...

I wouldn’t have Healey near it. He’s a poor scrummager. Look what Vincent Koch did to him in a recent Champions Cup quarter final 

I agree Steff - Wyn, Sutherland & Mako for me - if Marler is available I would perhaps take him before Mako. 

navidi 7 beirne 6 is a very interesting idea hmmmm food for thought
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RR1972 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 March 2021 at 3:30pm
Gats likes his players big and strong that why I think vdm may get the nod ahead of lrz
 
If Tulagi gets fit hell be in the frame for the centres to, beirne is playing well but gats won't pick him at lock vs the boks
 
As a 6 yes maybe but I think hell go for naividi and underhill but neither are a line out option as gpr points out,
 
As for loose heads that kilcoyne is handy from the bench so don't rule him out as being on the "tour " either
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote greypower1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 March 2021 at 3:30pm
Cawdor is third choice for Wales.  Why woul Garland select him ahead of the other scrum halves available to him.? 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RR1972 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 March 2021 at 3:34pm
Originally posted by greypower1 greypower1 wrote:

Cawdor is third choice for Wales.  Why woul Garland select him ahead of the other scrum halves available to him.? 
 
he may suit gats game plan especially with his defence
 
there are no stand out 9's gats could well pick someone like davies or murray
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roy munster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 March 2021 at 3:40pm
The 9 jersey is still up for grabs, youngs , murray, price.....wales seem to have a rotation system with their 9s ....all class scrum halves bringing a slightly different skill set....cawdor is a big match player a dangerous runner, powerful tackler, his kicking game has improved a bit imo tomos is a classy all round 9 hardy big fan but lions may be too soon for him

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 March 2021 at 4:00pm
Cawdor ticks a lot of boxes. He has great gas, strong, defensively he will get under Faf's skin and his interception threat scares most teams. Murray is the best box kicker available but he appears out of favour. All the others who are up against Cawdor are not much better kickers and do not possess anything like his other attributes. I would love to have seen Tomos given a few games but he has been unlucky with injuries - I still have doubts about his defence. 

Reading that back and most of what Cawdor gives us read the same for Hardy and apparently he is the fittest of them all. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NobbySosban Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 March 2021 at 11:23am
Munster back row CJ Stander has announced his retirement from rugby at the end of this season aged 31, although he seems to leave himself available for Lions selection before returning to S Africa with his family.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sosban89 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 March 2021 at 11:31am
Originally posted by NobbySosban NobbySosban wrote:

Munster back row CJ Stander has announced his retirement from rugby at the end of this season aged 31, although he seems to leave himself available for Lions selection before returning to S Africa with his family.

Personally I would not pick him for the Lions purely because I don't think a South African should be considered Irish. Especially given that he's already confirmed he'll be back to South Africa as soon as he hangs his boots up.
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