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roy munster
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Posted: 15 March 2021 at 2:01pm |
North is possibly the player of the tournament atm, if he goes well saturday he surely will start for the lions
Edited by roy munster - 15 March 2021 at 2:01pm
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ROYMOND MUNTER MBE (FOR SERVICES TO THE COMBOVER)
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aber-fan
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Posted: 15 March 2021 at 2:05pm |
roy munster wrote:
North is possibly the player of the tournament atm, if he goes well saturday he surely will start for the lions
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He's playing well, but is yet to show full confidence in terms of positioning.
He's definitely in the frame, though.
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scarletnut
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Posted: 15 March 2021 at 2:09pm |
aber-fan wrote:
A lot of very interesting points here...
At 15, surely it has to be between Hogg and Liam - I'd take Liam (taller, probably better overall in defence, more of a nuisance around the field, not much inferior -if at all - in attack)... but a toss-up.
Wings - on current form, LRZ is a cert; I prefer Watson to May; Adams is sure to tour, I think - but what about Stockdale? Bound to be there if fit. 5 wingers there - who misses out? Difficult!
Centres - Henshaw the only cert; Ringrose rather poor yesterday; Huw Jones better than Scottish starters; Farrell - not perfect at 10, or at 12 - but a 'test match animal', as is North; Foxy - still working his way back to full fitness.
10 - no point comparing Sexton and Russell on yesterday's game, as the Irish forwards crushed the Scots. IF Gatland wanted to develop a more open game, he'd have to pick Russell - a sort of part-time genius - but we al know how conservative he tends to be, so if that continues it'll either be Sexton, Biggar or Farrell.
9 - I like Cawdor or Hardy (obs.!), but YOungs or Gibson-Park in with a shout.
1 - Wyn Jones (some comedians in the press are touting non-scrummaging fat boy Mako V - they have got to be joking. 2 - the Sheriff 3 - Furlong or Francis 4 - Ryan 5 - AWJ (capt.) 6 - Beirne or Navidi 7 Tips or Watson 8 Faletau ( Billy V not fit enough, yet... Stander back-up)
So then - what I think might be the best 15/23 ATM if nothing changes:
15 Liam 14 LRZ 13 Henshaw 12 Farrell 11 Watson 10 Russell 9 Cawdor
8 Faletau 7 Navidi 6 Beirne 5 AWJ (capt.) 4 Ryan 3 Furlong 2 Ken 1 Wyn
16 George 17 Healy 18 Francis 19 Itoje 20 Tipric 21 Hardy 22 Biggar 23 Hogg
That's a sort of mix of pragmatic players with X-factor players. I'd expect Gatland to go even more pragmatic - doubt he'll start Russell, but he could change a game, so may be benched. If he continues to perform, LRZ is a must on one wing - the other is a dogfight between Watson, May, Adams and Stockdale, if fit. Centre is a weak area, unless Foxy returns to full fitness and power. Lots of 9s at about the same level. Itoje misses out as he's a penalty machine ATM. Ryan is excellent, in any case.
Not seen enough of some new guys - Connors was apparently outstanding yesterday, but Gatland favours experience, so...
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I wouldn’t have Healey near it. He’s a poor scrummager. Look what Vincent Koch did to him in a recent Champions Cup quarter final
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I still wake up late at night and think of what might have been when tim stimpson hit that jammy penalty1
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Jones2004
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Posted: 15 March 2021 at 2:26pm |
I’d say the Lions have to start with pretty much their strongest scrummaging front row. The RWC final showed what happened when you’re scrum is even slightly off against SA, and if we don’t have a scrum for the series we don’t have a hope. That’s why I wouldn’t have Mako Vunipola close to the team, as good as he is around the field, and why Wyn Jones has surely got a very good chance of being the starting LH.
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Fscarlet
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Posted: 15 March 2021 at 2:27pm |
scarletnut wrote:
aber-fan wrote:
A lot of very interesting points here...
At 15, surely it has to be between Hogg and Liam - I'd take Liam (taller, probably better overall in defence, more of a nuisance around the field, not much inferior -if at all - in attack)... but a toss-up.
Wings - on current form, LRZ is a cert; I prefer Watson to May; Adams is sure to tour, I think - but what about Stockdale? Bound to be there if fit. 5 wingers there - who misses out? Difficult!
Centres - Henshaw the only cert; Ringrose rather poor yesterday; Huw Jones better than Scottish starters; Farrell - not perfect at 10, or at 12 - but a 'test match animal', as is North; Foxy - still working his way back to full fitness.
10 - no point comparing Sexton and Russell on yesterday's game, as the Irish forwards crushed the Scots. IF Gatland wanted to develop a more open game, he'd have to pick Russell - a sort of part-time genius - but we al know how conservative he tends to be, so if that continues it'll either be Sexton, Biggar or Farrell.
9 - I like Cawdor or Hardy (obs.!), but YOungs or Gibson-Park in with a shout.
1 - Wyn Jones (some comedians in the press are touting non-scrummaging fat boy Mako V - they have got to be joking. 2 - the Sheriff 3 - Furlong or Francis 4 - Ryan 5 - AWJ (capt.) 6 - Beirne or Navidi 7 Tips or Watson 8 Faletau ( Billy V not fit enough, yet... Stander back-up)
So then - what I think might be the best 15/23 ATM if nothing changes:
15 Liam 14 LRZ 13 Henshaw 12 Farrell 11 Watson 10 Russell 9 Cawdor
8 Faletau 7 Navidi 6 Beirne 5 AWJ (capt.) 4 Ryan 3 Furlong 2 Ken 1 Wyn
16 George 17 Healy 18 Francis 19 Itoje 20 Tipric 21 Hardy 22 Biggar 23 Hogg
That's a sort of mix of pragmatic players with X-factor players. I'd expect Gatland to go even more pragmatic - doubt he'll start Russell, but he could change a game, so may be benched. If he continues to perform, LRZ is a must on one wing - the other is a dogfight between Watson, May, Adams and Stockdale, if fit. Centre is a weak area, unless Foxy returns to full fitness and power. Lots of 9s at about the same level. Itoje misses out as he's a penalty machine ATM. Ryan is excellent, in any case.
Not seen enough of some new guys - Connors was apparently outstanding yesterday, but Gatland favours experience, so...
| I wouldn’t have Healey near it. He’s a poor scrummager. Look what Vincent Koch did to him in a recent Champions Cup quarter final |
Healy got away with so much on the weekend!!
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GPR - Rochester
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Posted: 15 March 2021 at 2:45pm |
scarletnut wrote:
aber-fan wrote:
A lot of very interesting points here...
At 15, surely it has to be between Hogg and Liam - I'd take Liam (taller, probably better overall in defence, more of a nuisance around the field, not much inferior -if at all - in attack)... but a toss-up.
Wings - on current form, LRZ is a cert; I prefer Watson to May; Adams is sure to tour, I think - but what about Stockdale? Bound to be there if fit. 5 wingers there - who misses out? Difficult!
Centres - Henshaw the only cert; Ringrose rather poor yesterday; Huw Jones better than Scottish starters; Farrell - not perfect at 10, or at 12 - but a 'test match animal', as is North; Foxy - still working his way back to full fitness.
10 - no point comparing Sexton and Russell on yesterday's game, as the Irish forwards crushed the Scots. IF Gatland wanted to develop a more open game, he'd have to pick Russell - a sort of part-time genius - but we al know how conservative he tends to be, so if that continues it'll either be Sexton, Biggar or Farrell.
9 - I like Cawdor or Hardy (obs.!), but YOungs or Gibson-Park in with a shout.
1 - Wyn Jones (some comedians in the press are touting non-scrummaging fat boy Mako V - they have got to be joking. 2 - the Sheriff 3 - Furlong or Francis 4 - Ryan 5 - AWJ (capt.) 6 - Beirne or Navidi 7 Tips or Watson 8 Faletau ( Billy V not fit enough, yet... Stander back-up)
So then - what I think might be the best 15/23 ATM if nothing changes:
15 Liam 14 LRZ 13 Henshaw 12 Farrell 11 Watson 10 Russell 9 Cawdor
8 Faletau 7 Navidi 6 Beirne 5 AWJ (capt.) 4 Ryan 3 Furlong 2 Ken 1 Wyn
16 George 17 Healy 18 Francis 19 Itoje 20 Tipric 21 Hardy 22 Biggar 23 Hogg
That's a sort of mix of pragmatic players with X-factor players. I'd expect Gatland to go even more pragmatic - doubt he'll start Russell, but he could change a game, so may be benched. If he continues to perform, LRZ is a must on one wing - the other is a dogfight between Watson, May, Adams and Stockdale, if fit. Centre is a weak area, unless Foxy returns to full fitness and power. Lots of 9s at about the same level. Itoje misses out as he's a penalty machine ATM. Ryan is excellent, in any case.
Not seen enough of some new guys - Connors was apparently outstanding yesterday, but Gatland favours experience, so...
| I wouldn’t have Healey near it. He’s a poor scrummager. Look what Vincent Koch did to him in a recent Champions Cup quarter final |
I agree Steff - Wyn, Sutherland & Mako for me - if Marler is available I would perhaps take him before Mako.
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dyniol53
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Posted: 15 March 2021 at 3:08pm |
Interesting that Mako is out of favour for a few on here - I’ve never thought he was a weakness in the scrum but I play 9 so have no idea haha.
Got to say the Sarries boys are in a tricky situation. This game vs Ireland really is the last chance for them to stick their hands up.
How will Mako fare vs Furlong? Will Jamie George even start? How many penalties does Itoje have to give away to make him too much of a risk to start? Will Billy V ever be as effective as he was pre-WC? Stander and Faletau look super strong to me. Farrell is pretty much playing head to head for a place with Sexton IMO... Daly already gone.
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roy munster
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Posted: 15 March 2021 at 3:19pm |
Mako has always been known as world class around the field but not always world class scrummager...A bit like gethin jenkins who was a decent scrummager but not as specialised as say adam jones
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roy munster
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Posted: 15 March 2021 at 3:23pm |
GPR - Rochester wrote:
scarletnut wrote:
aber-fan wrote:
A lot of very interesting points here...
At 15, surely it has to be between Hogg and Liam - I'd take Liam (taller, probably better overall in defence, more of a nuisance around the field, not much inferior -if at all - in attack)... but a toss-up.
Wings - on current form, LRZ is a cert; I prefer Watson to May; Adams is sure to tour, I think - but what about Stockdale? Bound to be there if fit. 5 wingers there - who misses out? Difficult!
Centres - Henshaw the only cert; Ringrose rather poor yesterday; Huw Jones better than Scottish starters; Farrell - not perfect at 10, or at 12 - but a 'test match animal', as is North; Foxy - still working his way back to full fitness.
10 - no point comparing Sexton and Russell on yesterday's game, as the Irish forwards crushed the Scots. IF Gatland wanted to develop a more open game, he'd have to pick Russell - a sort of part-time genius - but we al know how conservative he tends to be, so if that continues it'll either be Sexton, Biggar or Farrell.
9 - I like Cawdor or Hardy (obs.!), but YOungs or Gibson-Park in with a shout.
1 - Wyn Jones (some comedians in the press are touting non-scrummaging fat boy Mako V - they have got to be joking. 2 - the Sheriff 3 - Furlong or Francis 4 - Ryan 5 - AWJ (capt.) 6 - Beirne or Navidi 7 Tips or Watson 8 Faletau ( Billy V not fit enough, yet... Stander back-up)
So then - what I think might be the best 15/23 ATM if nothing changes:
15 Liam 14 LRZ 13 Henshaw 12 Farrell 11 Watson 10 Russell 9 Cawdor
8 Faletau 7 Navidi 6 Beirne 5 AWJ (capt.) 4 Ryan 3 Furlong 2 Ken 1 Wyn
16 George 17 Healy 18 Francis 19 Itoje 20 Tipric 21 Hardy 22 Biggar 23 Hogg
That's a sort of mix of pragmatic players with X-factor players. I'd expect Gatland to go even more pragmatic - doubt he'll start Russell, but he could change a game, so may be benched. If he continues to perform, LRZ is a must on one wing - the other is a dogfight between Watson, May, Adams and Stockdale, if fit. Centre is a weak area, unless Foxy returns to full fitness and power. Lots of 9s at about the same level. Itoje misses out as he's a penalty machine ATM. Ryan is excellent, in any case.
Not seen enough of some new guys - Connors was apparently outstanding yesterday, but Gatland favours experience, so...
| I wouldn’t have Healey near it. He’s a poor scrummager. Look what Vincent Koch did to him in a recent Champions Cup quarter final |
I agree Steff - Wyn, Sutherland & Mako for me - if Marler is available I would perhaps take him before Mako. |
navidi 7 beirne 6 is a very interesting idea hmmmm food for thought
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RR1972
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Posted: 15 March 2021 at 3:30pm |
Gats likes his players big and strong that why I think vdm may get the nod ahead of lrz If Tulagi gets fit hell be in the frame for the centres to, beirne is playing well but gats won't pick him at lock vs the boks As a 6 yes maybe but I think hell go for naividi and underhill but neither are a line out option as gpr points out, As for loose heads that kilcoyne is handy from the bench so don't rule him out as being on the "tour " either
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greypower1
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Posted: 15 March 2021 at 3:30pm |
Cawdor is third choice for Wales. Why woul Garland select him ahead of the other scrum halves available to him.?
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Keep the faith
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RR1972
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Posted: 15 March 2021 at 3:34pm |
greypower1 wrote:
Cawdor is third choice for Wales. Why woul Garland select him ahead of the other scrum halves available to him.?
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he may suit gats game plan especially with his defence there are no stand out 9's gats could well pick someone like davies or murray
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roy munster
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Posted: 15 March 2021 at 3:40pm |
The 9 jersey is still up for grabs, youngs , murray, price.....wales seem to have a rotation system with their 9s ....all class scrum halves bringing a slightly different skill set....cawdor is a big match player a dangerous runner, powerful tackler, his kicking game has improved a bit imo tomos is a classy all round 9 hardy big fan but lions may be too soon for him
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GPR - Rochester
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Posted: 15 March 2021 at 4:00pm |
Cawdor ticks a lot of boxes. He has great gas, strong, defensively he will get under Faf's skin and his interception threat scares most teams. Murray is the best box kicker available but he appears out of favour. All the others who are up against Cawdor are not much better kickers and do not possess anything like his other attributes. I would love to have seen Tomos given a few games but he has been unlucky with injuries - I still have doubts about his defence.
Reading that back and most of what Cawdor gives us read the same for Hardy and apparently he is the fittest of them all.
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NobbySosban
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Posted: 16 March 2021 at 11:23am |
Munster back row CJ Stander has announced his retirement from rugby at the end of this season aged 31, although he seems to leave himself available for Lions selection before returning to S Africa with his family.
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Sosban89
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Posted: 16 March 2021 at 11:31am |
NobbySosban wrote:
Munster back row CJ Stander has announced his retirement from rugby at the end of this season aged 31, although he seems to leave himself available for Lions selection before returning to S Africa with his family. |
Personally I would not pick him for the Lions purely because I don't think a South African should be considered Irish. Especially given that he's already confirmed he'll be back to South Africa as soon as he hangs his boots up.
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