Author |
Topic Search Topic Options
|
BlackwoodScarlet
Veteran
Joined: 12 March 2008
Location: Blackwood
Status: Offline
Points: 4470
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 02 July 2020 at 2:49pm |
Ffidel Bennett wrote:
Scarletabroad - you missed out the first part of your statement - "it's not up for debate, the tactic is not taught by any body in any organisation, Israeli or otherwise" Strange that quite recently, in a short period of time, that 4 different Israeli soldiers were caught using it, on camera. Now I realise that for someone who is determined to defend Israeli actions, the photos don't prove anything but neither could you possibly prove the above part of your statement, which you can only have made in blind faith. What this debate mainly shows is what side you are on, and I make no excuses that my sympathies lie with the Palestinians and against those who defend Israeli occupation and annexation of their land. We in the west keep trying to brush these human rights violations under the carpet although, hypocritically, when it suits us, we are very keen to publicise, elsewhere. |
Pity the other Arab states don't care about the Palestinians nor do the so called leaders of Palestine
|
|
Sponsored Links
|
|
|
RR1972
Veteran
Joined: 27 April 2009
Status: Online
Points: 18276
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 02 July 2020 at 4:17pm |
Ffidel Bennett wrote:
Scarletabroad - you missed out the first part of your statement - "it's not up for debate, the tactic is not taught by any body in any organisation, Israeli or otherwise" Strange that quite recently, in a short period of time, that 4 different Israeli soldiers were caught using it, on camera. Now I realise that for someone who is determined to defend Israeli actions, the photos don't prove anything but neither could you possibly prove the above part of your statement, which you can only have made in blind faith. What this debate mainly shows is what side you are on, and I make no excuses that my sympathies lie with the Palestinians and against those who defend Israeli occupation and annexation of their land. We in the west keep trying to brush these human rights violations under the carpet although, hypocritically, when it suits us, we are very keen to publicise, elsewhere. |
I'm actually on your side with the way Israel treat Palestine, I'm just saying that training method is not taught by anyone (to my knowledge) and I have worked in that line of work for over 20 years As for the west being silent on certain human right violations when are the left in the west going to come out and condemn china for how they are treating the people of hong kong or even worse their treatment of Uyghur Muslims The left are very good at pointing out the hypocrisy of others but seem very reluctant to look at their own double standards Breaches of human rights are unacceptable no matter who carries them out and that is something we should all be unequivocal about Sadly in politics people seem to be only offended by the actions of those they disagree with Look at lockdown cummins broke lock down rules and labour (quite rightly imo) called for him to be sacked, the labour mayor of Leicester broke lock down rules and now the torys are calling for him to be sacked Neither side were willing to condemn the actions of their own member , very poor form
Edited by RR1972 - 02 July 2020 at 4:46pm
|
|
dr_martinov
Veteran
Joined: 06 August 2005
Location: Tycoch
Status: Offline
Points: 13286
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 03 July 2020 at 9:05am |
RR1972 wrote:
Ffidel Bennett wrote:
Scarletabroad - you missed out the first part of your statement - "it's not up for debate, the tactic is not taught by any body in any organisation, Israeli or otherwise" Strange that quite recently, in a short period of time, that 4 different Israeli soldiers were caught using it, on camera. Now I realise that for someone who is determined to defend Israeli actions, the photos don't prove anything but neither could you possibly prove the above part of your statement, which you can only have made in blind faith. What this debate mainly shows is what side you are on, and I make no excuses that my sympathies lie with the Palestinians and against those who defend Israeli occupation and annexation of their land. We in the west keep trying to brush these human rights violations under the carpet although, hypocritically, when it suits us, we are very keen to publicise, elsewhere. |
I'm actually on your side with the way Israel treat Palestine, I'm just saying that training method is not taught by anyone (to my knowledge) and I have worked in that line of work for over 20 years As for the west being silent on certain human right violations when are the left in the west going to come out and condemn china for how they are treating the people of hong kong or even worse their treatment of Uyghur Muslims The left are very good at pointing out the hypocrisy of others but seem very reluctant to look at their own double standards Breaches of human rights are unacceptable no matter who carries them out and that is something we should all be unequivocal about Sadly in politics people seem to be only offended by the actions of those they disagree with Look at lockdown cummins broke lock down rules and labour (quite rightly imo) called for him to be sacked, the labour mayor of Leicester broke lock down rules and now the torys are calling for him to be sacked Neither side were willing to condemn the actions of their own member , very poor form
|
China, USA and Russia basically do whatever they want = definition of a superpower.
The biggest issue I now think we have is the inability of these different opinions to speak to each other. People are in their echo chambers (me a good case in point) and struggle to engage with those with different viewpoints. Then our political system is geared for two party politics with zero compromise. So all they do is blame the other guys to get elected in our now severely out of date first past the post system.
But yes, I think hypocrisy and double-standards is one of the biggest issues. There are differences, e.g. Cummings is the one actually involved in making the decisions and decided to hold a press conference to the nation where he flat out lied yet still retained his job somehow, but the widening gulf between the public and politicians is very clear. You'd think Labour would be well-equipped for an "us and them" campaign but these style sentiments are the preserve of the harder right anti-immigration nationalist/populist parties at the moment who use this anger very effectively, despite the very clear hypocrisy within that!
|
|
GPR - Rochester
Veteran
Joined: 01 December 2014
Location: Rhydcymerau
Status: Offline
Points: 18784
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 03 July 2020 at 10:48am |
dr_martinov wrote:
RR1972 wrote:
Ffidel Bennett wrote:
Scarletabroad - you missed out the first part of your statement - "it's not up for debate, the tactic is not taught by any body in any organisation, Israeli or otherwise" Strange that quite recently, in a short period of time, that 4 different Israeli soldiers were caught using it, on camera. Now I realise that for someone who is determined to defend Israeli actions, the photos don't prove anything but neither could you possibly prove the above part of your statement, which you can only have made in blind faith. What this debate mainly shows is what side you are on, and I make no excuses that my sympathies lie with the Palestinians and against those who defend Israeli occupation and annexation of their land. We in the west keep trying to brush these human rights violations under the carpet although, hypocritically, when it suits us, we are very keen to publicise, elsewhere. |
I'm actually on your side with the way Israel treat Palestine, I'm just saying that training method is not taught by anyone (to my knowledge) and I have worked in that line of work for over 20 years As for the west being silent on certain human right violations when are the left in the west going to come out and condemn china for how they are treating the people of hong kong or even worse their treatment of Uyghur Muslims The left are very good at pointing out the hypocrisy of others but seem very reluctant to look at their own double standards Breaches of human rights are unacceptable no matter who carries them out and that is something we should all be unequivocal about Sadly in politics people seem to be only offended by the actions of those they disagree with Look at lockdown cummins broke lock down rules and labour (quite rightly imo) called for him to be sacked, the labour mayor of Leicester broke lock down rules and now the torys are calling for him to be sacked Neither side were willing to condemn the actions of their own member , very poor form
|
China, USA and Russia basically do whatever they want = definition of a superpower.
The biggest issue I now think we have is the inability of these different opinions to speak to each other. People are in their echo chambers (me a good case in point) and struggle to engage with those with different viewpoints. Then our political system is geared for two party politics with zero compromise. So all they do is blame the other guys to get elected in our now severely out of date first past the post system.
But yes, I think hypocrisy and double-standards is one of the biggest issues. There are differences, e.g. Cummings is the one actually involved in making the decisions and decided to hold a press conference to the nation where he flat out lied yet still retained his job somehow, but the widening gulf between the public and politicians is very clear. You'd think Labour would be well-equipped for an "us and them" campaign but these style sentiments are the preserve of the harder right anti-immigration nationalist/populist parties at the moment who use this anger very effectively, despite the very clear hypocrisy within that! |
Far be it for me to further diminish your faith in our politicians/political system but on the subject of Cummins' TV statement does anyone else feel that in this political climate where every word/phrase is well prepared & overseen by strategists/analysts that nobody chose to tell him that his story of testing his eyesight was such a load of nonsensical drivel. Are we to understand that the No 10 media machine thought it would for minute persuade us unwashed? Are they really that out of touch?
|
|
dr_martinov
Veteran
Joined: 06 August 2005
Location: Tycoch
Status: Offline
Points: 13286
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 03 July 2020 at 11:06am |
GPR - Rochester wrote:
Far be it for me to further diminish your faith in our politicians/political system but on the subject of Cummins' TV statement does anyone else feel that in this political climate where every word/phrase is well prepared & overseen by strategists/analysts that nobody chose to tell him that his story of testing his eyesight was such a load of nonsensical drivel. Are we to understand that the No 10 media machine thought it would for minute persuade us unwashed? Are they really that out of touch? |
Not possible, except I can see that there's worse out there - US, China, Russia being three clear examples!
Yes, it is strange isn't it? It suggests either he didn't check with anyone or, if he did, ignored them. Or that it was a deliberate obvious lie designed by number 10 to well, achieve what exactly? Further break trust, encourage people to break lockdown? The first seems more likely if we think DC holds power over the PM which the lack of any disciplinary action would support. The second seems more like a conspiracy theory but we do know DC advocated a herd mentality approach. There's a third option: it's actually true but this seems very unlikely.
|
|
roy munster
Veteran
Joined: 30 August 2010
Status: Offline
Points: 15683
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 03 July 2020 at 1:06pm |
RR1972 wrote:
Ffidel Bennett wrote:
Scarletabroad - you missed out the first part of your statement - "it's not up for debate, the tactic is not taught by any body in any organisation, Israeli or otherwise" Strange that quite recently, in a short period of time, that 4 different Israeli soldiers were caught using it, on camera. Now I realise that for someone who is determined to defend Israeli actions, the photos don't prove anything but neither could you possibly prove the above part of your statement, which you can only have made in blind faith. What this debate mainly shows is what side you are on, and I make no excuses that my sympathies lie with the Palestinians and against those who defend Israeli occupation and annexation of their land. We in the west keep trying to brush these human rights violations under the carpet although, hypocritically, when it suits us, we are very keen to publicise, elsewhere. |
I'm actually on your side with the way Israel treat Palestine, I'm just saying that training method is not taught by anyone (to my knowledge) and I have worked in that line of work for over 20 years As for the west being silent on certain human right violations when are the left in the west going to come out and condemn china for how they are treating the people of hong kong or even worse their treatment of Uyghur Muslims The left are very good at pointing out the hypocrisy of others but seem very reluctant to look at their own double standards Breaches of human rights are unacceptable no matter who carries them out and that is something we should all be unequivocal about Sadly in politics people seem to be only offended by the actions of those they disagree with Look at lockdown cummins broke lock down rules and labour (quite rightly imo) called for him to be sacked, the labour mayor of Leicester broke lock down rules and now the torys are calling for him to be sacked Neither side were willing to condemn the actions of their own member , very poor form
|
exactly why no one can ever fully commit to any party imo the sheer amount of bias self interest double standards and hypocrisy is off the charts. Now with algorhythms, right wing media, left wing university lecturers and PC state tv, all camps have become more extreme and more encamped. They all close their ears, repeat their talking points and name call each other, usually with accusations of bigotry and sexism. This means no negotiation no compromise you agreements. The senate is a perfect example of the damage this stagnation causes, total breakdown in communication leads to a breakdown in society.
As someone here mentioned about blair, before he became bush warmongering poodle, he did manage a peace agreement in Ireland all of which requered months and months of listening , compromise , communication, negotiation, collaboration. All words that have disappeared from our political vocabulary.
|
ROYMOND MUNTER MBE (FOR SERVICES TO THE COMBOVER)
|
|
roy munster
Veteran
Joined: 30 August 2010
Status: Offline
Points: 15683
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 03 August 2020 at 5:50pm |
a disgraceful decision by the wag
|
ROYMOND MUNTER MBE (FOR SERVICES TO THE COMBOVER)
|
|
ladram
Rambler
Joined: 08 April 2005
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 26826
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 03 August 2020 at 7:31pm |
roy munster wrote:
a disgraceful decision by the wag |
a personal interest roy? i can't see what keir starmer has to do with that.
|
|
roy munster
Veteran
Joined: 30 August 2010
Status: Offline
Points: 15683
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 03 August 2020 at 9:17pm |
ladram wrote:
roy munster wrote:
a disgraceful decision by the wag |
a personal interest roy? i can't see what keir starmer has to do with that. |
Labour demonising landlords , its populist nonsense
|
ROYMOND MUNTER MBE (FOR SERVICES TO THE COMBOVER)
|
|
BlackwoodScarlet
Veteran
Joined: 12 March 2008
Location: Blackwood
Status: Offline
Points: 4470
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 09 August 2020 at 4:48pm |
roy munster wrote:
ladram wrote:
roy munster wrote:
a disgraceful decision by the wag |
a personal interest roy? i can't see what keir starmer has to do with that. |
Labour demonising landlords , its populist nonsense | What did you expect from labour
|
|
roy munster
Veteran
Joined: 30 August 2010
Status: Offline
Points: 15683
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 25 August 2020 at 6:17pm |
I see the BBC have stopped the singing of the lyrics to rule britannia and land of hope and glory in case it offends or something. The u-turn on the license fee for pensioners was a killer blow, but their output has been declining for decades. This could be the beginning of the end of the BBC as we know it, its now seen by the majority of license fee holders as a radical anti british organisation. Both labour and tories have condemned this decision, be interesting to see what starmer does about this and the license fee
Edited by roy munster - 25 August 2020 at 6:18pm
|
ROYMOND MUNTER MBE (FOR SERVICES TO THE COMBOVER)
|
|
reesytheexile
Veteran
Joined: 11 August 2012
Location: Machynys
Status: Offline
Points: 17530
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 25 August 2020 at 7:46pm |
roy munster wrote:
I see the BBC have stopped the singing of the lyrics to rule britannia and land of hope and glory in case it offends or something.The u-turn on the license fee for pensioners was a killer blow, but their output has been declining for decades. This could be the beginning of the end of the BBC as we know it, its now seen by the majority of license fee holders as a radical anti british organisation. Both labour and tories have condemned this decision, be interesting to see what starmer does about this and the license fee
|
it will for a be year only as no audience obviously with Covid. Much ado about nothing it seems
Edited by reesytheexile - 25 August 2020 at 9:03pm
|
|
Jones2004
Veteran
Joined: 29 September 2019
Location: North Wales
Status: Offline
Points: 1439
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 25 August 2020 at 8:12pm |
roy munster wrote:
I see the BBC have stopped the singing of the lyrics to rule britannia and land of hope and glory in case it offends or something.The u-turn on the license fee for pensioners was a killer blow, but their output has been declining for decades. This could be the beginning of the end of the BBC as we know it, its now seen by the majority of license fee holders as a radical anti british organisation. Both labour and tories have condemned this decision, be interesting to see what starmer does about this and the license fee
|
I believe they should have permanently removed Rule Britannia from the Proms as it’s a song celebrating the conquest of quarter of the World’s Population by the British Empire, something that should be commemorated but not celebrated. It also includes the line “Britains shall never be slaves” which I can imagine is hugely offensive to black people as it gives the message that the British are better than black people, something which is obviously completely unacceptable today. Frankly the only thing I’m disappointed with the BBC about is that they’ve decided that they’ll bring back the singing of it next year.
|
|
roy munster
Veteran
Joined: 30 August 2010
Status: Offline
Points: 15683
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 25 August 2020 at 9:12pm |
If they start banning all songs with any elements that offend someone where does the censorship end?
starmer has got his hands full with the BBC issue as over 60% of the public already want to scrap the license fee which may in effect mean the end of the BBC
Edited by roy munster - 25 August 2020 at 9:18pm
|
ROYMOND MUNTER MBE (FOR SERVICES TO THE COMBOVER)
|
|
ladram
Rambler
Joined: 08 April 2005
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 26826
|
Post Options
Thanks(1)
Quote Reply
Posted: 25 August 2020 at 9:13pm |
roy munster wrote:
If they start banning all songs with any elements that offend someone where does the censorship end? |
ernie for speeding in a milk cart?
|
|
BlackwoodScarlet
Veteran
Joined: 12 March 2008
Location: Blackwood
Status: Offline
Points: 4470
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 25 August 2020 at 9:20pm |
Jones2004 wrote:
roy munster wrote:
I see the BBC have stopped the singing of the lyrics to rule britannia and land of hope and glory in case it offends or something.The u-turn on the license fee for pensioners was a killer blow, but their output has been declining for decades. This could be the beginning of the end of the BBC as we know it, its now seen by the majority of license fee holders as a radical anti british organisation. Both labour and tories have condemned this decision, be interesting to see what starmer does about this and the license fee
|
I believe they should have permanently removed Rule Britannia from the Proms as it’s a song celebrating the conquest of quarter of the World’s Population by the British Empire, something that should be commemorated but not celebrated. It also includes the line “Britains shall never be slaves” which I can imagine is hugely offensive to black people as it gives the message that the British are better than black people, something which is obviously completely unacceptable today. Frankly the only thing I’m disappointed with the BBC about is that they’ve decided that they’ll bring back the singing of it next year. | But British people have been enslaved
|
|