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SospanMawr
Veteran Joined: 03 April 2013 Location: The North Stand Status: Offline Points: 10035 |
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I completely understand why he has been suspended. Imagine if the ECB, already having picked someone with that sort of history that they missed, picked him again and more/worse things came out? At the same time though, I understand that the ECB as a business, brand and representative organisation are allowed to choose who they have representing them exactly the same as any other company. I think it was ex England opener Michael Carberry on Sky Sports who (rightly) asked where has Ollie Robinson’s education/change/development in his personal views been evidenced? This is not to say it hasn’t happened, or that he’s not the same silly kid he was, but where’s the proof? It’s a sticky situation (some would say a sticky wicket but I won’t go for that low hanging fruit).
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dyniol53
Veteran Joined: 08 April 2018 Location: Llundain Status: Offline Points: 1949 |
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The thing that’s non-obvious about what you’re saying here is that the definitions of these words are actively changing quicker than most people feel comfortable. James D’amore, a Google employee, gets sacked for saying that men and woman are, on average, different. This is something that’s provably true and 99% of people agree with. But he is sacked for sexism. A white cop kills a black citizen and we are told it’s an example of institutionally racist crime - even though there are video examples of white officers killing white citizens in directly similar examples e.g. Tony Tempa & Daniel Shaver. We are told that BLM is a protest about police brutality, until it’s not. Suddenly it’s about challenging implicit racism and “decolonising the curriculum”. Everyone is a sinner in this religion, everyone must confess and there will be no forgiveness.
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SospanMawr
Veteran Joined: 03 April 2013 Location: The North Stand Status: Offline Points: 10035 |
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He said that discrimination does exist, and made points that women are, among other things, more prone to neuroticism (feelings of anxiety, worry, fear, anger, guilt etc) which naturally isn’t a trait that you’d want in a high end business. So then it suggests that they shouldn’t be in those positions doesn’t it? He’s also been accused of misinterpreting the science involved by multiple people who collated and undertook the research and wrote what he quoted. In terms of institutionally racist, just because while people are also killed by US Police doesn’t mean that there can’t be institutional racism. Both things can be true. There are numerous facts and statistics concerning the treatment of BAME by American Police that support the statement that they are more in danger of death or mistreatment at the hands of the police.
Edited by SospanMawr - 14 June 2021 at 3:56pm |
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RR1972
Veteran Joined: 27 April 2009 Status: Offline Points: 18268 |
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Ok playing devils advocate bame people are much more likely to be killed by other bame people than by the police both in the usa and uk. Should the focus of bame anger be looking more at that aspect. Just the other day a leading uk blm activist was shot and all the suspects are young bame males. Where is the protest against that crime?? Btw i’m not bame but i have travelled all over the world and had plenty of stick for being welsh be it good natured or other wise again not comparing this to what bame people have put up with. But your very niave to think
White people don’t get racist abuse at times No one should be victimised for their creed colour skin gender religion or sexuality. Be they stephen lawrence or kris donald
Edited by RR1972 - 14 June 2021 at 4:31pm |
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RR1972
Veteran Joined: 27 April 2009 Status: Offline Points: 18268 |
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Dai Guevara
Veteran Joined: 12 August 2020 Location: Caerdydd Status: Offline Points: 1486 |
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All empires must be racist. How else can you justify plundering and enslaving whole continents? Believing that you are vastly superior to those you are colonising / and whose lands you are plundering is essential or your colonising force won't be able justify their violence and greed and will be forced to live and work in peace and share equally the products of their "work". The fact that there is a significant remnant of this attitude still in the minds of the colonising race isn't really a shock. Deeply ingrained prejudices, some with religious backing, don't vanish overnight. In the USA you can still hear it in the speeches of their leading politicians who still "drone" on about being the exceptional country, the shining city on the hill, and all the other excuses for why they should be able to bomb anyone who doesn't agree back to the stone age.
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dyniol53
Veteran Joined: 08 April 2018 Location: Llundain Status: Offline Points: 1949 |
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Accused of “misinterpreting the science” meant he got fired. Thats what people mean about cancel culture - It’s not about tolerance all of a sudden, he was fired for ‘allegedly’ misrepresenting science. Neuroticism is a scientific term, it’s the technical term for a cluster of traits. He wasn’t saying all women are neurotic he was saying “women on average are more prone to neuroticism”. Something which psychologists have studied for decades since the big 5 personality traits were ‘discovered’. It’s the same thing as suggesting men, on average, have more upper body strength than women. It was supposed to be about tolerance and equality? It was supposed to be about repercussions for racism, sexism or other heresies. But all of a sudden it’s about firing people who relay a plausible but possibly inaccurate interpretation of science. Do you see that now? Can you understand why people think this is a sinister ideology? A movement that might all of a sudden come for them? Not because they’re a raging sexist/racist but because something as gentle as suggesting men and women are, on average, different might end up being held up as an opinion that is beyond the pale and you’ve lost your livelihood. D’amore was just one example, but there are many.
Edited by dyniol53 - 14 June 2021 at 6:22pm |
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dyniol53
Veteran Joined: 08 April 2018 Location: Llundain Status: Offline Points: 1949 |
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Do you include the Ottoman Empire in this? How should modern Turkey deal with their legacy of colonialism? Likewise Japan, how should Japan deal with their legacy of imperialism? Would you’d say Japan, or the Japanese, are racist?
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Dai Guevara
Veteran Joined: 12 August 2020 Location: Caerdydd Status: Offline Points: 1486 |
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Any country using military conquest to plunder a country must be included, and we of course are England's first colony, although the colonisers' media are hardly likely to be so honest about it.
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RR1972
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dr_martinov
Veteran Joined: 06 August 2005 Location: Tycoch Status: Offline Points: 13286 |
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If you define the act of invading your neighbours for financial or geographical gain as evidence of racism then every country, village, tribe in human history is racist. You particularly hate the English due to their colonial history. Where did the Celts come from you think? Reckon they never invaded each other as well?
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dr_martinov
Veteran Joined: 06 August 2005 Location: Tycoch Status: Offline Points: 13286 |
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Blimey this thread went a strange direction. Even I don't think this is Johnson's fault.
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dyniol53
Veteran Joined: 08 April 2018 Location: Llundain Status: Offline Points: 1949 |
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This thread is all Jac Morgans fault
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roy munster
Veteran Joined: 30 August 2010 Status: Offline Points: 15682 |
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Every country on earth has conversations , discussions, debates, arguments about too many people coming to live in their countries i.e. foreigners. It has nothing to do with the colour of peoples skin.
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ROYMOND MUNTER MBE (FOR SERVICES TO THE COMBOVER)
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roy munster
Veteran Joined: 30 August 2010 Status: Offline Points: 15682 |
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Put simply, the empires ruthlessly utilised their competitive advantages at the time to plunder the world of its resources. Sometimes out of pure greed and gluttony, for profit and riches, for fame and glory, sometimes to create opium wars, sometimes to create empires and make Gods of themselves... But also in some cases, there were some benefits whether by accident or by design, creating huge strides in education, scientific medical advancement, for the betterment of human kind. One might also argue the empire seemed to leave behind some kind of lasting, albeit flawed democracies too.
Edited by roy munster - 15 June 2021 at 2:34am |
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ROYMOND MUNTER MBE (FOR SERVICES TO THE COMBOVER)
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RR1972
Veteran Joined: 27 April 2009 Status: Offline Points: 18268 |
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Anyhow looks like restrictions are staying untill 19.7 in england and goodness knows when here. Doubt well get a full crowd in pys untill 2022!
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