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dyniol53 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dyniol53 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 November 2021 at 7:48pm
Isn’t there an Scottish / Welsh independence thread for this conversation. I prefer it when this thread is just slamming Boris Johnson for being a clumsy coward
https://twitter.com/exile_podcast?lang=en
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RR1972 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RR1972 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 November 2021 at 7:49pm
The number of staff needed  for a welsh dvla and land reg will be less than 10 per cent they need for the uk ones. Your kidding yourself
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RR1972 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 November 2021 at 7:50pm
Originally posted by dyniol53 dyniol53 wrote:

Isn’t there an Scottish / Welsh independence thread for this conversation. I prefer it when this thread is just slamming Boris Johnson for being a clumsy coward
fair point. He was worse than useless today!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 November 2021 at 8:15pm
Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

The number of staff needed  for a welsh dvla and land reg will be less than 10 per cent they need for the uk ones. Your kidding yourself

I don't think so RR. The figures are publically available. I have looked at this before. The vast majority would be redeployed.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 November 2021 at 8:16pm
Originally posted by dyniol53 dyniol53 wrote:

Isn’t there an Scottish / Welsh independence thread for this conversation. I prefer it when this thread is just slamming Boris Johnson for being a clumsy coward

Happy to shuttle over there if that's what people want Thumbs Up
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dr_martinov Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 November 2021 at 9:10am
A Spectator journalist has organised this website, where content is still being updated to current date:

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dr_martinov Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 November 2021 at 12:11pm
This is a really good article on the state of our political system and how dangerous it is so many simply don't care and now think such as things as "they're all as bad as each other" (with some justification):


It is geared towards the current regime, yes, but is a bigger issue than just the current government. 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 November 2021 at 4:49pm
Originally posted by dr_martinov dr_martinov wrote:

This is a really good article on the state of our political system and how dangerous it is so many simply don't care and now think such as things as "they're all as bad as each other" (with some justification):


It is geared towards the current regime, yes, but is a bigger issue than just the current government. 



That's a very good article. I know independence is being covered in another thread but this Johnson Govt, like the Major and Thatcher ones before, is such a motivating factor for Welsh Statehood. I am personally a liberal progressive - this govt is the complete opposite of everything I value politically ... but as you say it's more than just about Johnson. To me, the Tories represent a social, economic and political order that has shaped the UK. IMHO the most progressive thing we could do is dismantle the UK state and establish new national states and a confederation for cooperation. It should be a process of democratic renewal. It is desperately needed.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dyniol53 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 December 2021 at 11:37am
A friend who works for a Labour MP told me that in focus groups time after time it comes out that - what most middle-lower class English voters want in a PM is a well spoken public school-boy that doesn’t hold them in contempt. 

At first I was really confused but then I go through all the elections in my lifetime and you start to see in all the Lab v Tory battles the loser seems to fail that - even to an extent when May lost ground to Corbyn that may well have been the heuristic many were voting with. 

One thing Blair did quite well was making it clear he didn’t resent them, even in the aftermath of the referendum - he is an arch remainer but I’ve never heard him say “the voters were stupid” or “the voters were racist” like many other high profile remainers.

Things like Gordon Browns Gillian Duffy moment, Ed Miliband not sacking Emily Thornbury for her White Van Man tweet and Jeremy Corbyns smearing associations with IRA / Iran seemed to cut through. 

So while all the Posh Etonians of Cameron and Boris are NOT men of the people, they obviously don’t give enough signals that they distain half the country. 

(They told me this is what they’re working on atm with Labour - trying to dispel the myth that they despise the working class)
https://twitter.com/exile_podcast?lang=en
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dr_martinov Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 December 2021 at 11:45am
Originally posted by dyniol53 dyniol53 wrote:

A friend who works for a Labour MP told me that in focus groups time after time it comes out that - what most middle-lower class English voters want in a PM is a well spoken public school-boy that doesn’t hold them in contempt. 

At first I was really confused but then I go through all the elections in my lifetime and you start to see in all the Lab v Tory battles the loser seems to fail that - even to an extent when May lost ground to Corbyn that may well have been the heuristic many were voting with. 

One thing Blair did quite well was making it clear he didn’t resent them, even in the aftermath of the referendum - he is an arch remainer but I’ve never heard him say “the voters were stupid” or “the voters were racist” like many other high profile remainers.

Things like Gordon Browns Gillian Duffy moment, Ed Miliband not sacking Emily Thornbury for her White Van Man tweet and Jeremy Corbyns smearing associations with IRA / Iran seemed to cut through. 

So while all the Posh Etonians of Cameron and Boris are NOT men of the people, they obviously don’t give enough signals that they distain half the country. 

(They told me this is what they’re working on atm with Labour - trying to dispel the myth that they despise the working class)

And with that level of bias, as this statement describes class, accent and gender, my only conclusion is the "most" you mention is that they are severely prejudiced.

My views fit straight into someone they wouldn't vote for, sure, as I evidently hold people with such prejudice in contempt, but I am not running for government and it is the only conclusion made from that finding you describe. I personally don't think the solution is to find yet another well-spoken public-school boy who they are willing to vote for, but to actually improve political education in this country to the point that "most" of the English public do not automatically view someone well-spoken, male and from a public school as being equipped to lead.

Because, most clearly, they are not.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dyniol53 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 December 2021 at 11:05am
Yeah my comment above wasn’t a celebration or denigration of that - it was more just a scouts report of what people see on the ground. 

I’m generally pessimistic about “improving political education” I think people’s biases and prejudices are fairly engrained. 

The average voter pays about as much attention to politics as your average English rugby fan pays attention to Welsh rugby - I.e. basically never, maybe once a year and then a bit more intently every four years.

If you then asked an average English rugby fan to pick the best player for Wales they’d probably pick Gavin Henson, because he’s the most famous and they barely know any others. I think that’s basically where we’re at with Boris Johnson 
https://twitter.com/exile_podcast?lang=en
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dyniol53 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 December 2021 at 11:06am
This Christmas party scandal is one of those weird moments, like Hancock, where you’re like “surely all your other f*** ups over the past year and a half are a lot more damaging than this” but then you realise the most engaging thing to people is sex scandals and hypocrisy and Hancock was the former and this one the latter.
https://twitter.com/exile_podcast?lang=en
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dr_martinov Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 December 2021 at 11:24am
Originally posted by dyniol53 dyniol53 wrote:

This Christmas party scandal is one of those weird moments, like Hancock, where you’re like “surely all your other f*** ups over the past year and a half are a lot more damaging than this” but then you realise the most engaging thing to people is sex scandals and hypocrisy and Hancock was the former and this one the latter.

I was thinking similar this morning, "of all the things that may turn the public against them, this has a higher chance than many..." Interesting question about just who it was who leaked that video as well isn't it?

But we live in a country where a politician eating a bacon sandwich in an awkward way apparently had an enormous influence in turning away voters. This is why I go on about political education because if superficial crap like this is what is selecting our leaders and governments, something must be going wrong. In times of relative calm and stability then sure, it barely matters I can see that argument, but then along came a pandemic and suddenly voting in a buffoon - or someone willing to act like a buffoon for laughs - didn't seem like the greatest of ideas. 

Everyone knew who Johnson was beforehand. The Conservative party who made him their leader, the public who voted for their MP knowing it would make him the PM.... there's no excuses and no surprises of the sort of things that have then occurred. 

My only real surprise has been the tolerance of the UK public for corruption, lies and incompetence. Maybe this is now coming to people saying "too much".
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dai Guevara Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 December 2021 at 11:32am
People will begin to rebel when it really hits their pockets. For most working class people inflation is far more than the official figures suggest, and the rises in energy costs, petrol, everyday food and sustenance, to say nothing of rent/house prices which take a far greater proportion of available income than it does for the better off. Unfortunately the wooden, so-called leader of the labour party has no alternative policies and many will put up with Boris incompetence and corruption because they suspect that Starmer will be weak and and just carry on with the sort of neo-liberal policies that we've endured since Thatcher. At most he will be Tory-lite and turn people away from Labour as an alternative.

Edited by Dai Guevara - 08 December 2021 at 11:34am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RR1972 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 December 2021 at 12:54pm
I think this could be it for boris his own party may see to that( no pun intended)

Edited by RR1972 - 08 December 2021 at 12:56pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dr_martinov Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 December 2021 at 1:40pm
On being asked whether there was a party, Johnson said "no, but I'm sure that whatever happened the guidance was followed and the rules were followed at all times".

I suspect we will be seeing a discussion on what the word "party" means in the near future.
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