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Mugwuffin
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Topic: Moving on, after Munster Posted: 14 October 2021 at 8:51pm |
London Scarlet wrote:
That’s such a surprising stat. Can we look at dropping some more goals then? At least having some more variety in our play in the 22. |
We did score 7 tries in our first two matches. That’s why we’re so high in those rankings.
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London Scarlet
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Posted: 14 October 2021 at 7:59pm |
That’s such a surprising stat. Can we look at dropping some more goals then? At least having some more variety in our play in the 22.
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157cb
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Posted: 14 October 2021 at 4:53pm |
S
Against Munster they ruined us at the breakdown, Cloete had a free reign. The ball we had throughout the game was so slow ,with the backs offside not been officiated . So much for the IRB clampdown on this area of the game . KALAMFONI as carried us for the last 18 months , as virtually our only forward carrier. Hopefully Lezana will be a great help here. It's all very good saying the ball will travel quicker than the man, for that to happen the ball as to be quick from all phases of play .
Huge areas to work on ,fringe defence , one to one tackling .Competing at breakdown, faster speed of ball! Lineout precision . Onwards to Leinster!!!
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Mugwuffin
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Posted: 14 October 2021 at 4:48pm |
KID A wrote:
scarletpimp wrote:
Scarlets are short on physicality ATM
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We're always short of physicality. If not at 8 then it's in the second row or a carrying prop. Lessons never get learned.
Who is going to make hard yards in Dublin now Sione is out? |
Is Tuipulotu back fit? I read somewhere that he was still recovering from a hand injury he picked up playing for Wales U20s, but he’s been one of the ‘ball boys’ for the last couple of home matches.
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KID A
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Posted: 14 October 2021 at 4:26pm |
scarletpimp wrote:
Scarlets are short on physicality ATM
| We're always short of physicality. If not at 8 then it's in the second row or a carrying prop. Lessons never get learned. Who is going to make hard yards in Dublin now Sione is out?
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scarletpimp
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Posted: 14 October 2021 at 4:21pm |
gaffer wrote:
GPR - Rochester wrote:
scarletnut wrote:
Why wrote:
ndavies198 wrote:
According to Opta, Scarlets are second in the league for most entires into the opposition 22 but only fourth for converting that into points. The platform is there. If Scarlets can turn that pressure into points with the efficiency of Munster then the wins will surely come - along with sorting out the defence but hopefully that's just a case of adjusting to whatever Hogan is laying down and we'll see improvements as the season goes on.
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That stat is probably true but what mystifies me is our reliance on forward power, which we have little of, to score the tries instead of using our backs. Cost Wales dear in 2015 World Cup against Australia when they are down to 13 men . It is one of my bug bears seeing forwards battering against defences metres from the line when often there is space out wide. | But you can't separate the two. If you don't gain parity upfront then it becomes very difficult to utilise your back-line. |
Why is right Steff - you can get parity or near parity but still play to your strengths. I cannot recall the Scarlets in recent years ever being able to convert many 5 metre opportunities through forward power. Our tactic should be to make a few close charges to such in defenders and then get it wide. How many times have we seen pick and go after pick and go until we inevitably spill it - chance gone. It doesn't just happen once a game. Remember Edinburgh a few seasons ago we must have tries a dozen times with no return & we lost by 3 points. Mind numbingly stupid. |
Rugby intelligence, decision making are crucial factors in winning games. NZ are excellent at this and win many very close games as a result (not just because they have the skills, fitness, physicality). Wales and Welsh teams are quite poor in comparison. I think Gatland believed this also - hence the limited gameplan based on rock-solid defence and battering ram attack 'Gatland ball'. He rarely risked complicated attack moves/patterns.
I also remember the Madjeski semi-final; last 10 minutes camped on Northampton's line, endless pick and drives - Matt Cardey, one on one 10 metres out screaming for the ball which never came. I'd have given him a far better chance of beating his man and getting in. We failed to score; they broke out; infringement; penalty, we lost. Crucial decisions not made. Physical skills are, of course essential but rugby intelligence, decision making, game management also need developing and Dwayne has to address this with this team.
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Thanks Gaffer for reminding us of the failings we are STILL making today. I was there that day, at the Majenski, for that SF defeat. A bitter pill to swallow. Huge support for scarlets there , and we were the better side. Just did not have the confidence and belief, to widen the scope of the attack, as and when required. Madden claims to this day, that he grounded the ball....but it didn't change the result. Carwyn always stressed "let the ball do the work". Even though in the modern pro era, defences are so well organised, 'Letting the ball do the work ' is still a relevant phrase. You often have to earn the right to go wide, but at the same time need to play 'heads up ' rugby , playing what's in front of you. Battering ram approach is fine, but, there are many to skin a cat. Scarlets are short on physicality ATM, so to vary the approach is a sensible option.
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I stood yer on tanner bank
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GPR - Rochester
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Posted: 14 October 2021 at 2:02pm |
gaffer wrote:
GPR - Rochester wrote:
scarletnut wrote:
Why wrote:
ndavies198 wrote:
According to Opta, Scarlets are second in the league for most entires into the opposition 22 but only fourth for converting that into points. The platform is there. If Scarlets can turn that pressure into points with the efficiency of Munster then the wins will surely come - along with sorting out the defence but hopefully that's just a case of adjusting to whatever Hogan is laying down and we'll see improvements as the season goes on.
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That stat is probably true but what mystifies me is our reliance on forward power, which we have little of, to score the tries instead of using our backs. Cost Wales dear in 2015 World Cup against Australia when they are down to 13 men . It is one of my bug bears seeing forwards battering against defences metres from the line when often there is space out wide. | But you can't separate the two. If you don't gain parity upfront then it becomes very difficult to utilise your back-line. |
Why is right Steff - you can get parity or near parity but still play to your strengths. I cannot recall the Scarlets in recent years ever being able to convert many 5 metre opportunities through forward power. Our tactic should be to make a few close charges to such in defenders and then get it wide. How many times have we seen pick and go after pick and go until we inevitably spill it - chance gone. It doesn't just happen once a game. Remember Edinburgh a few seasons ago we must have tries a dozen times with no return & we lost by 3 points. Mind numbingly stupid. |
Rugby intelligence, decision making are crucial factors in winning games. NZ are excellent at this and win many very close games as a result (not just because they have the skills, fitness, physicality). Wales and Welsh teams are quite poor in comparison. I think Gatland believed this also - hence the limited gameplan based on rock-solid defence and battering ram attack 'Gatland ball'. He rarely risked complicated attack moves/patterns.
I also remember the Madjeski semi-final; last 10 minutes camped on Northampton's line, endless pick and drives - Matt Cardey, one on one 10 metres out screaming for the ball which never came. I'd have given him a far better chance of beating his man and getting in. We failed to score; they broke out; infringement; penalty, we lost. Crucial decisions not made. Physical skills are, of course essential but rugby intelligence, decision making, game management also need developing and Dwayne has to address this with this team.
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Spot on.
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gaffer
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Posted: 14 October 2021 at 1:57pm |
GPR - Rochester wrote:
scarletnut wrote:
Why wrote:
ndavies198 wrote:
According to Opta, Scarlets are second in the league for most entires into the opposition 22 but only fourth for converting that into points. The platform is there. If Scarlets can turn that pressure into points with the efficiency of Munster then the wins will surely come - along with sorting out the defence but hopefully that's just a case of adjusting to whatever Hogan is laying down and we'll see improvements as the season goes on.
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That stat is probably true but what mystifies me is our reliance on forward power, which we have little of, to score the tries instead of using our backs. Cost Wales dear in 2015 World Cup against Australia when they are down to 13 men . It is one of my bug bears seeing forwards battering against defences metres from the line when often there is space out wide. | But you can't separate the two. If you don't gain parity upfront then it becomes very difficult to utilise your back-line. |
Why is right Steff - you can get parity or near parity but still play to your strengths. I cannot recall the Scarlets in recent years ever being able to convert many 5 metre opportunities through forward power. Our tactic should be to make a few close charges to such in defenders and then get it wide. How many times have we seen pick and go after pick and go until we inevitably spill it - chance gone. It doesn't just happen once a game. Remember Edinburgh a few seasons ago we must have tries a dozen times with no return & we lost by 3 points. Mind numbingly stupid. |
Rugby intelligence, decision making are crucial factors in winning games. NZ are excellent at this and win many very close games as a result (not just because they have the skills, fitness, physicality). Wales and Welsh teams are quite poor in comparison. I think Gatland believed this also - hence the limited gameplan based on rock-solid defence and battering ram attack 'Gatland ball'. He rarely risked complicated attack moves/patterns.
I also remember the Madjeski semi-final; last 10 minutes camped on Northampton's line, endless pick and drives - Matt Cardey, one on one 10 metres out screaming for the ball which never came. I'd have given him a far better chance of beating his man and getting in. We failed to score; they broke out; infringement; penalty, we lost. Crucial decisions not made. Physical skills are, of course essential but rugby intelligence, decision making, game management also need developing and Dwayne has to address this with this team.
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What's going on?
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GPR - Rochester
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Posted: 14 October 2021 at 1:54pm |
scarletpimp wrote:
Many thanks to those who have replied to the thread I started yesterday.
Also , some great observations made tackling/defence, line out, and the breakdown. It seems bizarre that we were so strong in the back row at one time. Now, a combination of departures, injury, etc have left us struggling. Obviously, this could change, but the breakdown, as proven against Munster, proving a real issue for us! The addition of Lezana, will hopefully improve things.
What a contrast when we look at Cardiff, who have Robinson, Williams,Botham, Navidi,Boyde, AND, now Young. Surely going to be difficult to keep all these happy. Dragons, also are very strong in this area.Anyone who saw Taine Basham's performance against Conaught last weekend, can only be hugely impressed. Definitely deserves a chance in a Welsh Jersey!
Anyway, let us hope, we can build something against Leinster There will be no expectations, against the best side in the league, particularly in their RDS fortress. Ospreys won there last year, with a memorable 'comeback ', performance. Can scarlets repeat that, I doubt it, but would settle for a performance showing more vigour, heart, and sheer pride, than we witnessed last sunday
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Vigour, heart & pride will certainly do for starters. Throw in something resembling a defensive system & we may be able to celebrate getting within 20 points of them!!!!
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scarletpimp
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Posted: 14 October 2021 at 1:48pm |
Many thanks to those who have replied to the thread I started yesterday.
Also , some great observations made tackling/defence, line out, and the breakdown. It seems bizarre that we were so strong in the back row at one time. Now, a combination of departures, injury, etc have left us struggling. Obviously, this could change, but the breakdown, as proven against Munster, proving a real issue for us! The addition of Lezana, will hopefully improve things.
What a contrast when we look at Cardiff, who have Robinson, Williams,Botham, Navidi,Boyde, AND, now Young. Surely going to be difficult to keep all these happy. Dragons, also are very strong in this area.Anyone who saw Taine Basham's performance against Conaught last weekend, can only be hugely impressed. Definitely deserves a chance in a Welsh Jersey!
Anyway, let us hope, we can build something against Leinster There will be no expectations, against the best side in the league, particularly in their RDS fortress. Ospreys won there last year, with a memorable 'comeback ', performance. Can scarlets repeat that, I doubt it, but would settle for a performance showing more vigour, heart, and sheer pride, than we witnessed last sunday
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GPR - Rochester
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Posted: 14 October 2021 at 1:42pm |
scarletnut wrote:
Why wrote:
ndavies198 wrote:
According to Opta, Scarlets are second in the league for most entires into the opposition 22 but only fourth for converting that into points. The platform is there. If Scarlets can turn that pressure into points with the efficiency of Munster then the wins will surely come - along with sorting out the defence but hopefully that's just a case of adjusting to whatever Hogan is laying down and we'll see improvements as the season goes on.
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That stat is probably true but what mystifies me is our reliance on forward power, which we have little of, to score the tries instead of using our backs. Cost Wales dear in 2015 World Cup against Australia when they are down to 13 men . It is one of my bug bears seeing forwards battering against defences metres from the line when often there is space out wide. | But you can't separate the two. If you don't gain parity upfront then it becomes very difficult to utilise your back-line. |
Why is right Steff - you can get parity or near parity but still play to your strengths. I cannot recall the Scarlets in recent years ever being able to convert many 5 metre opportunities through forward power. Our tactic should be to make a few close charges to such in defenders and then get it wide. How many times have we seen pick and go after pick and go until we inevitably spill it - chance gone. It doesn't just happen once a game. Remember Edinburgh a few seasons ago we must have tries a dozen times with no return & we lost by 3 points. Mind numbingly stupid.
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N14
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Posted: 14 October 2021 at 1:36pm |
scarletnut wrote:
Why wrote:
ndavies198 wrote:
According to Opta, Scarlets are second in the league for most entires into the opposition 22 but only fourth for converting that into points. The platform is there. If Scarlets can turn that pressure into points with the efficiency of Munster then the wins will surely come - along with sorting out the defence but hopefully that's just a case of adjusting to whatever Hogan is laying down and we'll see improvements as the season goes on.
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That stat is probably true but what mystifies me is our reliance on forward power, which we have little of, to score the tries instead of using our backs. Cost Wales dear in 2015 World Cup against Australia when they are down to 13 men . It is one of my bug bears seeing forwards battering against defences metres from the line when often there is space out wide. | But you can't separate the two. If you don't gain parity upfront then it becomes very difficult to utilise your back-line. |
Makes our lack of signings in key areas amongst the forwards all the more frustrating. Losing Ball and Tex without replacing them was madness
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gaffer
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Posted: 14 October 2021 at 1:34pm |
scarletpimp wrote:
NO business whatever it is, leave alone a sporting organisation, can survive that consistent turmoil and disruption to whatever is happening in terms, of expectancy, technical analysis, philosophy etc..in a word a complete lack of CONTINUITY, which is what we need right now. There are voices calling already, that Dwaine has no experience as Head Coach, and was the wrong appointment. I beg to differ. Anyone listening to him talk, will know that not only is he a scarlet through and through, BUT he has the attitude and over arching philosophy, to take Scarlets to better things. He has a team that itself will be learning, so there will be tough lessons along the way. Given what Munster's Van Graan has said about his long term project, I feel that as Scarlets fans we need to be patient, Dwaine has inherited a squad, which he will clearly need to strengthen. He will need need to assess the contribution of senior players, like Foxy, Ken and Shings, and how best to use them. There will also need to be some harsh decisions made, not just on selection, but in the longer term, with some having to be thanked for their excellent service to the Scarlets, before moving on. That's the nature of professional sport ! I am sure that with the continued support of the board, Dwaine will succeed
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So much to agree with in the whole of scarletpimp's post. For me, the key section is this one and the highlighted points. A very pragmatic analysis.
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What's going on?
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scarletnut
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Posted: 14 October 2021 at 1:03pm |
Why wrote:
ndavies198 wrote:
According to Opta, Scarlets are second in the league for most entires into the opposition 22 but only fourth for converting that into points. The platform is there. If Scarlets can turn that pressure into points with the efficiency of Munster then the wins will surely come - along with sorting out the defence but hopefully that's just a case of adjusting to whatever Hogan is laying down and we'll see improvements as the season goes on.
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That stat is probably true but what mystifies me is our reliance on forward power, which we have little of, to score the tries instead of using our backs. Cost Wales dear in 2015 World Cup against Australia when they are down to 13 men . It is one of my bug bears seeing forwards battering against defences metres from the line when often there is space out wide. |
But you can't separate the two. If you don't gain parity upfront then it becomes very difficult to utilise your back-line.
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I still wake up late at night and think of what might have been when tim stimpson hit that jammy penalty1
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GPR - Rochester
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Posted: 14 October 2021 at 1:01pm |
Why wrote:
ndavies198 wrote:
According to Opta, Scarlets are second in the league for most entires into the opposition 22 but only fourth for converting that into points. The platform is there. If Scarlets can turn that pressure into points with the efficiency of Munster then the wins will surely come - along with sorting out the defence but hopefully that's just a case of adjusting to whatever Hogan is laying down and we'll see improvements as the season goes on.
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That stat is probably true but what mystifies me is our reliance on forward power, which we have little of, to score the tries instead of using our backs. Cost Wales dear in 2015 World Cup against Australia when they are down to 13 men . It is one of my bug bears seeing forwards battering against defences metres from the line when often there is space out wide. |
Spot on Why.
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ndavies198
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Posted: 14 October 2021 at 12:40pm |
Absolutely, it's the execution at the moment which appears to be letting the Scarlets down. I agree, for example, when I see us go to the maul from a lineout, I feel like I'm waiting for the ball to be turned over.
But as these stats show, I believe there are reasons to be hopeful, three games in with a new coaching set up and they're putting themselves into good positions, they just need to work on their decision making and finishing in the 22 to turn that position into points.
Hopefully it's something we can see the coaches and players build on and from there we will see more wins. By Christmas time I'd hope we can see the team moving in a positive direction.
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