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Sir Duckling Tuft View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sir Duckling Tuft Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 March 2023 at 2:38pm
Originally posted by Seagultaf Seagultaf wrote:

Originally posted by John John wrote:

I'm sure the hotel does "echo elegance and glamour" as its website says but you can book a double room tonight for £114. Having some experience of the hospitality business, this is not going to go far in paying back a £45 million loan. The WRU has bought into an over-supplied market (hotels in central Cardiff) and is learning hard business facts the hard way. Walker says rugby money isn't going to pay the interest or the loan. Then where is the rugby money going? 

£45M has been borrowed from Legal and General and appears on the WRU accounts as a debt. So whilst the WRU are not putting any of their own cash into the project, they are required to repay the load with interest.
Its my understanding that the hotel made £600K profit last year but that was before load repayment costs which are likely to be circa £3M per annum including interest. I also read that the WRU underwrote the debt against its rugby income, so if the venture dies not work out, the WRU repay the loan anyway from rugby turnover.

whoever did this deal should be removed from the wru and walker and co need to throw it out and start again
sir duckling tuft
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Seagultaf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 March 2023 at 2:41pm
Originally posted by Sir Duckling Tuft Sir Duckling Tuft wrote:

Originally posted by Seagultaf Seagultaf wrote:

Originally posted by John John wrote:

I'm sure the hotel does "echo elegance and glamour" as its website says but you can book a double room tonight for £114. Having some experience of the hospitality business, this is not going to go far in paying back a £45 million loan. The WRU has bought into an over-supplied market (hotels in central Cardiff) and is learning hard business facts the hard way. Walker says rugby money isn't going to pay the interest or the loan. Then where is the rugby money going? 

£45M has been borrowed from Legal and General and appears on the WRU accounts as a debt. So whilst the WRU are not putting any of their own cash into the project, they are required to repay the load with interest.
Its my understanding that the hotel made £600K profit last year but that was before load repayment costs which are likely to be circa £3M per annum including interest. I also read that the WRU underwrote the debt against its rugby income, so if the venture dies not work out, the WRU repay the loan anyway from rugby turnover.

whoever did this deal should be removed from the wru and walker and co need to throw it out and start again

Its like a mortgage, once you have signed for the deal and the money has been borrowed, the only way out is to repay the money borrowed plus the agreed interest. 
The quickest way to do that would be to sell the WRU 75% stake, which would hopefully pay off most of the loan. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 March 2023 at 2:42pm
Originally posted by Sir Duckling Tuft Sir Duckling Tuft wrote:

Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Originally posted by Sir Duckling Tuft Sir Duckling Tuft wrote:

Originally posted by Wil Chips Wil Chips wrote:

The money from CVC is nice and meant for the whole spectrum of rugby. The money from TIl Tok, prine slots for the 6N, for the first time, Vodafone etc is new, and is purely for Women’s rugby.

I can see we are unlikely to read the situation in the same way.

Any further facts, stats figures would be gratefully received on this as you clearly know a lot on it...As for your last sentence appearing to have a personal go at me...Just stick to the facts pls, dont make subjective judgements on me and I will treat you with the same respect Thumbs Up

What more facts do you need. I quite simplistically a few days ago pointed out that it was not a case of the WRU not being able to afford to support the game - it is choices of where you spend income generated. £5m per year is being spent on funding a loan for the hotel. This would comfortably cover the investment in the professional contracts given to women and given each region £1m per year extra. That is just one funding decision which the WRU have got wrong.

The whole overhead of the WRU needs to be picked apart forensically and lets aim at saving say 10% on existing spending. That would be another at least £1m per region per year. You keep asking where is the money coming from & posters are telling you. As Wil has pointed out women's rugby is a growth area but it will need a governance structure to support it. CVC is not a charitable outfit but they see the importance of the women's game going forward. Why do you find it so difficult. It comes down to decisions & just saying there is no money available is clearly bonkers. 

The CVC facts which you have not delivered

What facts do you require - Wil has summarised the deal. Have you heard of google. What I am,  & I believe Wil is trying to say, is that it is not a matter of no funds; its about setting long term goals and planning accordingly. The WRU is a £100m turnover business so funds should not be a problem unless, of course, they are wasted.

Why any genuine supporter of rugby in Wales accepts a statement that there is not enough money to fully fund professional rugby and the womens' game is beyond me given the trail of mismanagement left by the executives over the past 5-10 years. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sir Duckling Tuft Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 March 2023 at 2:48pm
Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Originally posted by Sir Duckling Tuft Sir Duckling Tuft wrote:

Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Originally posted by Sir Duckling Tuft Sir Duckling Tuft wrote:

Originally posted by Wil Chips Wil Chips wrote:

The money from CVC is nice and meant for the whole spectrum of rugby. The money from TIl Tok, prine slots for the 6N, for the first time, Vodafone etc is new, and is purely for Women’s rugby.

I can see we are unlikely to read the situation in the same way.

Any further facts, stats figures would be gratefully received on this as you clearly know a lot on it...As for your last sentence appearing to have a personal go at me...Just stick to the facts pls, dont make subjective judgements on me and I will treat you with the same respect Thumbs Up

What more facts do you need. I quite simplistically a few days ago pointed out that it was not a case of the WRU not being able to afford to support the game - it is choices of where you spend income generated. £5m per year is being spent on funding a loan for the hotel. This would comfortably cover the investment in the professional contracts given to women and given each region £1m per year extra. That is just one funding decision which the WRU have got wrong.

The whole overhead of the WRU needs to be picked apart forensically and lets aim at saving say 10% on existing spending. That would be another at least £1m per region per year. You keep asking where is the money coming from & posters are telling you. As Wil has pointed out women's rugby is a growth area but it will need a governance structure to support it. CVC is not a charitable outfit but they see the importance of the women's game going forward. Why do you find it so difficult. It comes down to decisions & just saying there is no money available is clearly bonkers. 

The CVC facts which you have not delivered

What facts do you require - Wil has summarised the deal. Have you heard of google. What I am,  & I believe Wil is trying to say, is that it is not a matter of no funds; its about setting long term goals and planning accordingly. The WRU is a £100m turnover business so funds should not be a problem unless, of course, they are wasted.

Why any genuine supporter of rugby in Wales accepts a statement that there is not enough money to fully fund professional rugby and the womens' game is beyond me given the trail of mismanagement left by the executives over the past 5-10 years. 
Right so you dont seem to have the facts youre professing to know? Probably best to stop quoting the CVC deal and its alleged funding the womens game unless you do in fact have the facts
sir duckling tuft
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sir Duckling Tuft Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 March 2023 at 2:48pm
Originally posted by Seagultaf Seagultaf wrote:

Originally posted by Sir Duckling Tuft Sir Duckling Tuft wrote:

Originally posted by Seagultaf Seagultaf wrote:

Originally posted by John John wrote:

I'm sure the hotel does "echo elegance and glamour" as its website says but you can book a double room tonight for £114. Having some experience of the hospitality business, this is not going to go far in paying back a £45 million loan. The WRU has bought into an over-supplied market (hotels in central Cardiff) and is learning hard business facts the hard way. Walker says rugby money isn't going to pay the interest or the loan. Then where is the rugby money going? 

£45M has been borrowed from Legal and General and appears on the WRU accounts as a debt. So whilst the WRU are not putting any of their own cash into the project, they are required to repay the load with interest.
Its my understanding that the hotel made £600K profit last year but that was before load repayment costs which are likely to be circa £3M per annum including interest. I also read that the WRU underwrote the debt against its rugby income, so if the venture dies not work out, the WRU repay the loan anyway from rugby turnover.

whoever did this deal should be removed from the wru and walker and co need to throw it out and start again

Its like a mortgage, once you have signed for the deal and the money has been borrowed, the only way out is to repay the money borrowed plus the agreed interest. 
The quickest way to do that would be to sell the WRU 75% stake, which would hopefully pay off most of the loan. 
remortgage
sir duckling tuft
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Seagultaf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 March 2023 at 2:53pm
Originally posted by Sir Duckling Tuft Sir Duckling Tuft wrote:

Originally posted by Seagultaf Seagultaf wrote:

Originally posted by Sir Duckling Tuft Sir Duckling Tuft wrote:

Originally posted by Seagultaf Seagultaf wrote:

Originally posted by John John wrote:

I'm sure the hotel does "echo elegance and glamour" as its website says but you can book a double room tonight for £114. Having some experience of the hospitality business, this is not going to go far in paying back a £45 million loan. The WRU has bought into an over-supplied market (hotels in central Cardiff) and is learning hard business facts the hard way. Walker says rugby money isn't going to pay the interest or the loan. Then where is the rugby money going? 

£45M has been borrowed from Legal and General and appears on the WRU accounts as a debt. So whilst the WRU are not putting any of their own cash into the project, they are required to repay the load with interest.
Its my understanding that the hotel made £600K profit last year but that was before load repayment costs which are likely to be circa £3M per annum including interest. I also read that the WRU underwrote the debt against its rugby income, so if the venture dies not work out, the WRU repay the loan anyway from rugby turnover.

whoever did this deal should be removed from the wru and walker and co need to throw it out and start again

Its like a mortgage, once you have signed for the deal and the money has been borrowed, the only way out is to repay the money borrowed plus the agreed interest. 
The quickest way to do that would be to sell the WRU 75% stake, which would hopefully pay off most of the loan. 
remortgage

You can only remortgage something you have paid for and so far the hotel is not paid for as we are in year 2 of a 40 year arrangement.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scarletpimp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 March 2023 at 2:57pm
It seems to me futile continuing the thread here. 
Sir Duckling clearly believes its inappropriate in the current financial  climate to invest in the womens game,  and many of us on SF think otherwise. 
We are recycling  the same info again and again.

I hope in the long term Sir Ducking will change his mind and join us supporting  the women’s  game.
I have a spare ticket for the Wales v Ireand game, and would like to . offer it  to Sir Duckling and join me , would be good.
We are all scarlets on here, end of the day !




I stood yer on tanner bank
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 March 2023 at 3:03pm
Originally posted by Sir Duckling Tuft Sir Duckling Tuft wrote:

Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Originally posted by Sir Duckling Tuft Sir Duckling Tuft wrote:

Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Originally posted by Sir Duckling Tuft Sir Duckling Tuft wrote:

Originally posted by Wil Chips Wil Chips wrote:

The money from CVC is nice and meant for the whole spectrum of rugby. The money from TIl Tok, prine slots for the 6N, for the first time, Vodafone etc is new, and is purely for Women’s rugby.

I can see we are unlikely to read the situation in the same way.

Any further facts, stats figures would be gratefully received on this as you clearly know a lot on it...As for your last sentence appearing to have a personal go at me...Just stick to the facts pls, dont make subjective judgements on me and I will treat you with the same respect Thumbs Up

What more facts do you need. I quite simplistically a few days ago pointed out that it was not a case of the WRU not being able to afford to support the game - it is choices of where you spend income generated. £5m per year is being spent on funding a loan for the hotel. This would comfortably cover the investment in the professional contracts given to women and given each region £1m per year extra. That is just one funding decision which the WRU have got wrong.

The whole overhead of the WRU needs to be picked apart forensically and lets aim at saving say 10% on existing spending. That would be another at least £1m per region per year. You keep asking where is the money coming from & posters are telling you. As Wil has pointed out women's rugby is a growth area but it will need a governance structure to support it. CVC is not a charitable outfit but they see the importance of the women's game going forward. Why do you find it so difficult. It comes down to decisions & just saying there is no money available is clearly bonkers. 

The CVC facts which you have not delivered

What facts do you require - Wil has summarised the deal. Have you heard of google. What I am,  & I believe Wil is trying to say, is that it is not a matter of no funds; its about setting long term goals and planning accordingly. The WRU is a £100m turnover business so funds should not be a problem unless, of course, they are wasted.

Why any genuine supporter of rugby in Wales accepts a statement that there is not enough money to fully fund professional rugby and the womens' game is beyond me given the trail of mismanagement left by the executives over the past 5-10 years. 
Right so you dont seem to have the facts youre professing to know? Probably best to stop quoting the CVC deal and its alleged funding the womens game unless you do in fact have the facts

I have never suggested that I have the facts. Unlike you it seems I am prepared to take a fellow poster at face value when he has a proven record of being trustworthy and not prone to outrageous comments. You want to try it sometime.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Wil Chips Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 March 2023 at 3:07pm
Originally posted by Sir Duckling Tuft Sir Duckling Tuft wrote:

Originally posted by Wil Chips Wil Chips wrote:

Originally posted by Sir Duckling Tuft Sir Duckling Tuft wrote:

Originally posted by Wil Chips Wil Chips wrote:

The money from CVC is nice and meant for the whole spectrum of rugby. The money from TIl Tok, prine slots for the 6N, for the first time, Vodafone etc is new, and is purely for Women’s rugby.

I can see we are unlikely to read the situation in the same way.


Any further facts, stats figures would be gratefully received on this as you clearly know a lot on it...As for your last sentence appearing to have a personal go at me...Just stick to the facts pls, dont make subjective judgements on me and I will treat you with the same respect Thumbs Up



I'm a long way from being well informed on the women's game, I just see the top line levels of participation increase, match attendance growth, and notable sponsorship hikes in women's rugby. As i said it's the only growth sector in the game, so quite excited by it ( not so much with how the WRU are strategizing).

You state (many times) you don't think investment in Women's rugby is affordable given the state of Welsh rugby.
That viewpoint is fine too.

There's absolutely nothing personal in having a different viewpoint, which is what I've stated.






I didnt say that as you well know, please try to quote me honestly 




OK...these are your posts right?

...a couple of pages ago...?

'The women want 4 professional regional teams now and equal pay for female players. As I asked before the problem is how can we fund this when were already staring at bankrupt regions?

....this form you from 8 March?

'Absolute predictable drivel. It can't be financed or afforded it has no income stream. Go back to kindergarden to do your 2 plus 2s
I assume in the name of equality you also want 3 or 4 female professional rugby regions immediately ? If not why not ?

'The point is pro women's rugby is nowhere near affordable yet...it's a social experiment and Welsh rugby shouldn't be bankrupted in the middle of a COVID related financial crisis to fund a social experiment...let the WAG subsidise it till it's self financing'

or from 7 March?

'I'm saying professional contracts for 25 women is unaffordable and not self financing. Do you understand this plain English simple facts or will you now twist into something else' ?

..or from 15 Feb

'No one is saying no to womens professional rugby, why are you twisting my words? Im saying its unaffordable on the free market therefore the welsh government needs to subsidize it until it develops in years ahead and grows its income streams'

..or 4 Feb...

'Regions are bust, wru is bust, north wales region never happened and on top of all that they cannot afford to pay pro womens squads too but no one has the guts to say it'



Looks like you feel it's unaffordable to me.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 March 2023 at 3:10pm
Originally posted by Wil Chips Wil Chips wrote:

Originally posted by Sir Duckling Tuft Sir Duckling Tuft wrote:

Originally posted by Wil Chips Wil Chips wrote:

Originally posted by Sir Duckling Tuft Sir Duckling Tuft wrote:

Originally posted by Wil Chips Wil Chips wrote:

The money from CVC is nice and meant for the whole spectrum of rugby. The money from TIl Tok, prine slots for the 6N, for the first time, Vodafone etc is new, and is purely for Women’s rugby.

I can see we are unlikely to read the situation in the same way.


Any further facts, stats figures would be gratefully received on this as you clearly know a lot on it...As for your last sentence appearing to have a personal go at me...Just stick to the facts pls, dont make subjective judgements on me and I will treat you with the same respect Thumbs Up



I'm a long way from being well informed on the women's game, I just see the top line levels of participation increase, match attendance growth, and notable sponsorship hikes in women's rugby. As i said it's the only growth sector in the game, so quite excited by it ( not so much with how the WRU are strategizing).

You state (many times) you don't think investment in Women's rugby is affordable given the state of Welsh rugby.
That viewpoint is fine too.

There's absolutely nothing personal in having a different viewpoint, which is what I've stated.






I didnt say that as you well know, please try to quote me honestly 




OK...these are your posts right?

...a couple of pages ago...?

'The women want 4 professional regional teams now and equal pay for female players. As I asked before the problem is how can we fund this when were already staring at bankrupt regions?

....this form you from 8 March?

'Absolute predictable drivel. It can't be financed or afforded it has no income stream. Go back to kindergarden to do your 2 plus 2s
I assume in the name of equality you also want 3 or 4 female professional rugby regions immediately ? If not why not ?

'The point is pro women's rugby is nowhere near affordable yet...it's a social experiment and Welsh rugby shouldn't be bankrupted in the middle of a COVID related financial crisis to fund a social experiment...let the WAG subsidise it till it's self financing'

or from 7 March?

'I'm saying professional contracts for 25 women is unaffordable and not self financing. Do you understand this plain English simple facts or will you now twist into something else' ?

..or from 15 Feb

'No one is saying no to womens professional rugby, why are you twisting my words? Im saying its unaffordable on the free market therefore the welsh government needs to subsidize it until it develops in years ahead and grows its income streams'

..or 4 Feb...

'Regions are bust, wru is bust, north wales region never happened and on top of all that they cannot afford to pay pro womens squads too but no one has the guts to say it'



Looks like you feel it's unaffordable to me.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rob o'r Bont Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 March 2023 at 4:42pm
Game set and match Will. LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sir Duckling Tuft Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 March 2023 at 5:33pm
Originally posted by scarletpimp scarletpimp wrote:

It seems to me futile continuing the thread here. 
Sir Duckling clearly believes its inappropriate in the current financial  climate to invest in the womens game,  and many of us on SF think otherwise. 
We are recycling  the same info again and again.

I hope in the long term Sir Ducking will change his mind and join us supporting  the women’s  game.
I have a spare ticket for the Wales v Ireand game, and would like to . offer it  to Sir Duckling and join me , would be good.
We are all scarlets on here, end of the day !





youre lying I said none of that, yure just deflecting as I asked you for some facts and you failed to provide them 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ladram Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 March 2023 at 5:44pm
Originally posted by Sir Duckling Tuft Sir Duckling Tuft wrote:

Originally posted by scarletpimp scarletpimp wrote:

It seems to me futile continuing the thread here. 
Sir Duckling clearly believes its inappropriate in the current financial  climate to invest in the womens game,  and many of us on SF think otherwise. 
We are recycling  the same info again and again.

I hope in the long term Sir Ducking will change his mind and join us supporting  the women’s  game.
I have a spare ticket for the Wales v Ireand game, and would like to . offer it  to Sir Duckling and join me , would be good.
We are all scarlets on here, end of the day !





youre lying I said none of that, yure just deflecting as I asked you for some facts and you failed to provide them 


You don't want a debate you just want an argument.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Oracle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 March 2023 at 5:51pm
Originally posted by Sir Duckling Tuft Sir Duckling Tuft wrote:

Originally posted by scarletpimp scarletpimp wrote:

It seems to me futile continuing the thread here. 
Sir Duckling clearly believes its inappropriate in the current financial  climate to invest in the womens game,  and many of us on SF think otherwise. 
We are recycling  the same info again and again.

I hope in the long term Sir Ducking will change his mind and join us supporting  the women’s  game.
I have a spare ticket for the Wales v Ireand game, and would like to . offer it  to Sir Duckling and join me , would be good.
We are all scarlets on here, end of the day !





youre lying I said none of that, yure just deflecting as I asked you for some facts and you failed to provide them 



The question that really needs to be asked is 
Why do you hate women 
Are you a threat to women's safety 

Looking at your previous posts I would say yes to both 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote thommo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 March 2023 at 6:47pm
Originally posted by Oracle Oracle wrote:

Originally posted by Sir Duckling Tuft Sir Duckling Tuft wrote:

Originally posted by scarletpimp scarletpimp wrote:

It seems to me futile continuing the thread here. 
Sir Duckling clearly believes its inappropriate in the current financial  climate to invest in the womens game,  and many of us on SF think otherwise. 
We are recycling  the same info again and again.

I hope in the long term Sir Ducking will change his mind and join us supporting  the women’s  game.
I have a spare ticket for the Wales v Ireand game, and would like to . offer it  to Sir Duckling and join me , would be good.
We are all scarlets on here, end of the day !





youre lying I said none of that, yure just deflecting as I asked you for some facts and you failed to provide them 



The question that really needs to be asked is 
Why do you hate women 
Are you a threat to women's safety 

Looking at your previous posts I would say yes to both 
Ah come on now. That is not called for.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Oracle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 March 2023 at 7:07pm
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