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Sir Duckling Tuft
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Posted: 14 March 2023 at 2:38pm |
Seagultaf wrote:
John wrote:
I'm sure the hotel does "echo elegance and glamour" as its website says but you can book a double room tonight for £114. Having some experience of the hospitality business, this is not going to go far in paying back a £45 million loan. The WRU has bought into an over-supplied market (hotels in central Cardiff) and is learning hard business facts the hard way. Walker says rugby money isn't going to pay the interest or the loan. Then where is the rugby money going? |
£45M has been borrowed from Legal and General and appears on the WRU accounts as a debt. So whilst the WRU are not putting any of their own cash into the project, they are required to repay the load with interest. Its my understanding that the hotel made £600K profit last year but that was before load repayment costs which are likely to be circa £3M per annum including interest. I also read that the WRU underwrote the debt against its rugby income, so if the venture dies not work out, the WRU repay the loan anyway from rugby turnover. |
whoever did this deal should be removed from the wru and walker and co need to throw it out and start again
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sir duckling tuft
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Seagultaf
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Posted: 14 March 2023 at 2:41pm |
Sir Duckling Tuft wrote:
Seagultaf wrote:
John wrote:
I'm sure the hotel does "echo elegance and glamour" as its website says but you can book a double room tonight for £114. Having some experience of the hospitality business, this is not going to go far in paying back a £45 million loan. The WRU has bought into an over-supplied market (hotels in central Cardiff) and is learning hard business facts the hard way. Walker says rugby money isn't going to pay the interest or the loan. Then where is the rugby money going? |
£45M has been borrowed from Legal and General and appears on the WRU accounts as a debt. So whilst the WRU are not putting any of their own cash into the project, they are required to repay the load with interest. Its my understanding that the hotel made £600K profit last year but that was before load repayment costs which are likely to be circa £3M per annum including interest. I also read that the WRU underwrote the debt against its rugby income, so if the venture dies not work out, the WRU repay the loan anyway from rugby turnover. |
whoever did this deal should be removed from the wru and walker and co need to throw it out and start again |
Its like a mortgage, once you have signed for the deal and the money has been borrowed, the only way out is to repay the money borrowed plus the agreed interest. The quickest way to do that would be to sell the WRU 75% stake, which would hopefully pay off most of the loan.
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GPR - Rochester
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Posted: 14 March 2023 at 2:42pm |
Sir Duckling Tuft wrote:
GPR - Rochester wrote:
Sir Duckling Tuft wrote:
Wil Chips wrote:
The money from CVC is nice and meant for the whole spectrum of rugby. The money from TIl Tok, prine slots for the 6N, for the first time, Vodafone etc is new, and is purely for Women’s rugby.
I can see we are unlikely to read the situation in the same way. |
Any further facts, stats figures would be gratefully received on this as you clearly know a lot on it...As for your last sentence appearing to have a personal go at me...Just stick to the facts pls, dont make subjective judgements on me and I will treat you with the same respect |
What more facts do you need. I quite simplistically a few days ago pointed out that it was not a case of the WRU not being able to afford to support the game - it is choices of where you spend income generated. £5m per year is being spent on funding a loan for the hotel. This would comfortably cover the investment in the professional contracts given to women and given each region £1m per year extra. That is just one funding decision which the WRU have got wrong.
The whole overhead of the WRU needs to be picked apart forensically and lets aim at saving say 10% on existing spending. That would be another at least £1m per region per year. You keep asking where is the money coming from & posters are telling you. As Wil has pointed out women's rugby is a growth area but it will need a governance structure to support it. CVC is not a charitable outfit but they see the importance of the women's game going forward. Why do you find it so difficult. It comes down to decisions & just saying there is no money available is clearly bonkers. |
The CVC facts which you have not delivered |
What facts do you require - Wil has summarised the deal. Have you heard of google. What I am, & I believe Wil is trying to say, is that it is not a matter of no funds; its about setting long term goals and planning accordingly. The WRU is a £100m turnover business so funds should not be a problem unless, of course, they are wasted.
Why any genuine supporter of rugby in Wales accepts a statement that there is not enough money to fully fund professional rugby and the womens' game is beyond me given the trail of mismanagement left by the executives over the past 5-10 years.
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Sir Duckling Tuft
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Joined: 27 May 2012
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Posted: 14 March 2023 at 2:48pm |
GPR - Rochester wrote:
Sir Duckling Tuft wrote:
GPR - Rochester wrote:
Sir Duckling Tuft wrote:
Wil Chips wrote:
The money from CVC is nice and meant for the whole spectrum of rugby. The money from TIl Tok, prine slots for the 6N, for the first time, Vodafone etc is new, and is purely for Women’s rugby.
I can see we are unlikely to read the situation in the same way. |
Any further facts, stats figures would be gratefully received on this as you clearly know a lot on it...As for your last sentence appearing to have a personal go at me...Just stick to the facts pls, dont make subjective judgements on me and I will treat you with the same respect |
What more facts do you need. I quite simplistically a few days ago pointed out that it was not a case of the WRU not being able to afford to support the game - it is choices of where you spend income generated. £5m per year is being spent on funding a loan for the hotel. This would comfortably cover the investment in the professional contracts given to women and given each region £1m per year extra. That is just one funding decision which the WRU have got wrong.
The whole overhead of the WRU needs to be picked apart forensically and lets aim at saving say 10% on existing spending. That would be another at least £1m per region per year. You keep asking where is the money coming from & posters are telling you. As Wil has pointed out women's rugby is a growth area but it will need a governance structure to support it. CVC is not a charitable outfit but they see the importance of the women's game going forward. Why do you find it so difficult. It comes down to decisions & just saying there is no money available is clearly bonkers. |
The CVC facts which you have not delivered |
What facts do you require - Wil has summarised the deal. Have you heard of google. What I am, & I believe Wil is trying to say, is that it is not a matter of no funds; its about setting long term goals and planning accordingly. The WRU is a £100m turnover business so funds should not be a problem unless, of course, they are wasted.
Why any genuine supporter of rugby in Wales accepts a statement that there is not enough money to fully fund professional rugby and the womens' game is beyond me given the trail of mismanagement left by the executives over the past 5-10 years. |
Right so you dont seem to have the facts youre professing to know? Probably best to stop quoting the CVC deal and its alleged funding the womens game unless you do in fact have the facts
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sir duckling tuft
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Sir Duckling Tuft
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Posted: 14 March 2023 at 2:48pm |
Seagultaf wrote:
Sir Duckling Tuft wrote:
Seagultaf wrote:
John wrote:
I'm sure the hotel does "echo elegance and glamour" as its website says but you can book a double room tonight for £114. Having some experience of the hospitality business, this is not going to go far in paying back a £45 million loan. The WRU has bought into an over-supplied market (hotels in central Cardiff) and is learning hard business facts the hard way. Walker says rugby money isn't going to pay the interest or the loan. Then where is the rugby money going? |
£45M has been borrowed from Legal and General and appears on the WRU accounts as a debt. So whilst the WRU are not putting any of their own cash into the project, they are required to repay the load with interest. Its my understanding that the hotel made £600K profit last year but that was before load repayment costs which are likely to be circa £3M per annum including interest. I also read that the WRU underwrote the debt against its rugby income, so if the venture dies not work out, the WRU repay the loan anyway from rugby turnover. |
whoever did this deal should be removed from the wru and walker and co need to throw it out and start again |
Its like a mortgage, once you have signed for the deal and the money has been borrowed, the only way out is to repay the money borrowed plus the agreed interest. The quickest way to do that would be to sell the WRU 75% stake, which would hopefully pay off most of the loan. |
remortgage
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sir duckling tuft
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Seagultaf
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Joined: 27 May 2021
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Posted: 14 March 2023 at 2:53pm |
Sir Duckling Tuft wrote:
Seagultaf wrote:
Sir Duckling Tuft wrote:
Seagultaf wrote:
John wrote:
I'm sure the hotel does "echo elegance and glamour" as its website says but you can book a double room tonight for £114. Having some experience of the hospitality business, this is not going to go far in paying back a £45 million loan. The WRU has bought into an over-supplied market (hotels in central Cardiff) and is learning hard business facts the hard way. Walker says rugby money isn't going to pay the interest or the loan. Then where is the rugby money going? |
£45M has been borrowed from Legal and General and appears on the WRU accounts as a debt. So whilst the WRU are not putting any of their own cash into the project, they are required to repay the load with interest. Its my understanding that the hotel made £600K profit last year but that was before load repayment costs which are likely to be circa £3M per annum including interest. I also read that the WRU underwrote the debt against its rugby income, so if the venture dies not work out, the WRU repay the loan anyway from rugby turnover. |
whoever did this deal should be removed from the wru and walker and co need to throw it out and start again |
Its like a mortgage, once you have signed for the deal and the money has been borrowed, the only way out is to repay the money borrowed plus the agreed interest. The quickest way to do that would be to sell the WRU 75% stake, which would hopefully pay off most of the loan. |
remortgage |
You can only remortgage something you have paid for and so far the hotel is not paid for as we are in year 2 of a 40 year arrangement.
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scarletpimp
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Posted: 14 March 2023 at 2:57pm |
It seems to me futile continuing the thread here. Sir Duckling clearly believes its inappropriate in the current financial climate to invest in the womens game, and many of us on SF think otherwise. We are recycling the same info again and again.
I hope in the long term Sir Ducking will change his mind and join us supporting the women’s game. I have a spare ticket for the Wales v Ireand game, and would like to . offer it to Sir Duckling and join me , would be good. We are all scarlets on here, end of the day !
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I stood yer on tanner bank
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GPR - Rochester
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Posted: 14 March 2023 at 3:03pm |
Sir Duckling Tuft wrote:
GPR - Rochester wrote:
Sir Duckling Tuft wrote:
GPR - Rochester wrote:
Sir Duckling Tuft wrote:
Wil Chips wrote:
The money from CVC is nice and meant for the whole spectrum of rugby. The money from TIl Tok, prine slots for the 6N, for the first time, Vodafone etc is new, and is purely for Women’s rugby.
I can see we are unlikely to read the situation in the same way. |
Any further facts, stats figures would be gratefully received on this as you clearly know a lot on it...As for your last sentence appearing to have a personal go at me...Just stick to the facts pls, dont make subjective judgements on me and I will treat you with the same respect |
What more facts do you need. I quite simplistically a few days ago pointed out that it was not a case of the WRU not being able to afford to support the game - it is choices of where you spend income generated. £5m per year is being spent on funding a loan for the hotel. This would comfortably cover the investment in the professional contracts given to women and given each region £1m per year extra. That is just one funding decision which the WRU have got wrong.
The whole overhead of the WRU needs to be picked apart forensically and lets aim at saving say 10% on existing spending. That would be another at least £1m per region per year. You keep asking where is the money coming from & posters are telling you. As Wil has pointed out women's rugby is a growth area but it will need a governance structure to support it. CVC is not a charitable outfit but they see the importance of the women's game going forward. Why do you find it so difficult. It comes down to decisions & just saying there is no money available is clearly bonkers. |
The CVC facts which you have not delivered |
What facts do you require - Wil has summarised the deal. Have you heard of google. What I am, & I believe Wil is trying to say, is that it is not a matter of no funds; its about setting long term goals and planning accordingly. The WRU is a £100m turnover business so funds should not be a problem unless, of course, they are wasted.
Why any genuine supporter of rugby in Wales accepts a statement that there is not enough money to fully fund professional rugby and the womens' game is beyond me given the trail of mismanagement left by the executives over the past 5-10 years. |
Right so you dont seem to have the facts youre professing to know? Probably best to stop quoting the CVC deal and its alleged funding the womens game unless you do in fact have the facts |
I have never suggested that I have the facts. Unlike you it seems I am prepared to take a fellow poster at face value when he has a proven record of being trustworthy and not prone to outrageous comments. You want to try it sometime.
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Wil Chips
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Posted: 14 March 2023 at 3:07pm |
Sir Duckling Tuft wrote:
Wil Chips wrote:
Sir Duckling Tuft wrote:
Wil Chips wrote:
The money from CVC is nice and meant for the whole spectrum of rugby. The money from TIl Tok, prine slots for the 6N, for the first time, Vodafone etc is new, and is purely for Women’s rugby.
I can see we are unlikely to read the situation in the same way. |
Any further facts, stats figures would be gratefully received on this as you clearly know a lot on it...As for your last sentence appearing to have a personal go at me...Just stick to the facts pls, dont make subjective judgements on me and I will treat you with the same respect |
I'm a long way from being well informed on the women's game, I just see the top line levels of participation increase, match attendance growth, and notable sponsorship hikes in women's rugby. As i said it's the only growth sector in the game, so quite excited by it ( not so much with how the WRU are strategizing).
You state (many times) you don't think investment in Women's rugby is affordable given the state of Welsh rugby. That viewpoint is fine too.
There's absolutely nothing personal in having a different viewpoint, which is what I've stated.
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I didnt say that as you well know, please try to quote me honestly
| OK...these are your posts right? ...a couple of pages ago...? 'The women want 4 professional regional teams now and equal pay for female players. As I asked before the problem is how can we fund this when were already staring at bankrupt regions? ....this form you from 8 March? 'Absolute predictable drivel. It can't be financed or afforded it has no income stream. Go back to kindergarden to do your 2 plus 2s I assume in the name of equality you also want 3 or 4 female professional rugby regions immediately ? If not why not ? 'The point is pro women's rugby is nowhere near affordable yet...it's a social experiment and Welsh rugby shouldn't be bankrupted in the middle of a COVID related financial crisis to fund a social experiment...let the WAG subsidise it till it's self financing' or from 7 March? 'I'm saying professional contracts for 25 women is unaffordable and not self financing. Do you understand this plain English simple facts or will you now twist into something else' ? ..or from 15 Feb 'No one is saying no to womens professional rugby, why are you twisting my words? Im saying its unaffordable on the free market therefore the welsh government needs to subsidize it until it develops in years ahead and grows its income streams' ..or 4 Feb... 'Regions are bust, wru is bust, north wales region never happened and on top of all that they cannot afford to pay pro womens squads too but no one has the guts to say it' Looks like you feel it's unaffordable to me.
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GPR - Rochester
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Posted: 14 March 2023 at 3:10pm |
Wil Chips wrote:
Sir Duckling Tuft wrote:
Wil Chips wrote:
Sir Duckling Tuft wrote:
Wil Chips wrote:
The money from CVC is nice and meant for the whole spectrum of rugby. The money from TIl Tok, prine slots for the 6N, for the first time, Vodafone etc is new, and is purely for Women’s rugby.
I can see we are unlikely to read the situation in the same way. |
Any further facts, stats figures would be gratefully received on this as you clearly know a lot on it...As for your last sentence appearing to have a personal go at me...Just stick to the facts pls, dont make subjective judgements on me and I will treat you with the same respect |
I'm a long way from being well informed on the women's game, I just see the top line levels of participation increase, match attendance growth, and notable sponsorship hikes in women's rugby. As i said it's the only growth sector in the game, so quite excited by it ( not so much with how the WRU are strategizing).
You state (many times) you don't think investment in Women's rugby is affordable given the state of Welsh rugby. That viewpoint is fine too.
There's absolutely nothing personal in having a different viewpoint, which is what I've stated.
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I didnt say that as you well know, please try to quote me honestly
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OK...these are your posts right?
...a couple of pages ago...?
'The women want 4 professional regional teams now and equal pay for female players. As I asked before the problem is how can we fund this when were already staring at bankrupt regions?
....this form you from 8 March?
'Absolute predictable drivel. It can't be financed or afforded it has no income stream. Go back to kindergarden to do your 2 plus 2s I assume in the name of equality you also want 3 or 4 female professional rugby regions immediately ? If not why not ?
'The point is pro women's rugby is nowhere near affordable yet...it's a social experiment and Welsh rugby shouldn't be bankrupted in the middle of a COVID related financial crisis to fund a social experiment...let the WAG subsidise it till it's self financing'
or from 7 March?
'I'm saying professional contracts for 25 women is unaffordable and not self financing. Do you understand this plain English simple facts or will you now twist into something else' ?
..or from 15 Feb
'No one is saying no to womens professional rugby, why are you twisting my words? Im saying its unaffordable on the free market therefore the welsh government needs to subsidize it until it develops in years ahead and grows its income streams'
..or 4 Feb...
'Regions are bust, wru is bust, north wales region never happened and on top of all that they cannot afford to pay pro womens squads too but no one has the guts to say it'
Looks like you feel it's unaffordable to me.
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Rob o'r Bont
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Posted: 14 March 2023 at 4:42pm |
Game set and match Will.
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In a world where you can be anything – Be Kind.
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Sir Duckling Tuft
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Posted: 14 March 2023 at 5:33pm |
scarletpimp wrote:
It seems to me futile continuing the thread here. Sir Duckling clearly believes its inappropriate in the current financial climate to invest in the womens game, and many of us on SF think otherwise. We are recycling the same info again and again.
I hope in the long term Sir Ducking will change his mind and join us supporting the women’s game. I have a spare ticket for the Wales v Ireand game, and would like to . offer it to Sir Duckling and join me , would be good. We are all scarlets on here, end of the day !
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youre lying I said none of that, yure just deflecting as I asked you for some facts and you failed to provide them
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sir duckling tuft
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ladram
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Posted: 14 March 2023 at 5:44pm |
Sir Duckling Tuft wrote:
scarletpimp wrote:
It seems to me futile continuing the thread here. Sir Duckling clearly believes its inappropriate in the current financial climate to invest in the womens game, and many of us on SF think otherwise. We are recycling the same info again and again.
I hope in the long term Sir Ducking will change his mind and join us supporting the women’s game. I have a spare ticket for the Wales v Ireand game, and would like to . offer it to Sir Duckling and join me , would be good. We are all scarlets on here, end of the day !
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youre lying I said none of that, yure just deflecting as I asked you for some facts and you failed to provide them
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You don't want a debate you just want an argument.
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Oracle
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Posted: 14 March 2023 at 5:51pm |
Sir Duckling Tuft wrote:
scarletpimp wrote:
It seems to me futile continuing the thread here. Sir Duckling clearly believes its inappropriate in the current financial climate to invest in the womens game, and many of us on SF think otherwise. We are recycling the same info again and again.
I hope in the long term Sir Ducking will change his mind and join us supporting the women’s game. I have a spare ticket for the Wales v Ireand game, and would like to . offer it to Sir Duckling and join me , would be good. We are all scarlets on here, end of the day !
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youre lying I said none of that, yure just deflecting as I asked you for some facts and you failed to provide them
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The question that really needs to be asked is Why do you hate women Are you a threat to women's safety
Looking at your previous posts I would say yes to both
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thommo
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Posted: 14 March 2023 at 6:47pm |
Oracle wrote:
Sir Duckling Tuft wrote:
scarletpimp wrote:
It seems to me futile continuing the thread here. Sir Duckling clearly believes its inappropriate in the current financial climate to invest in the womens game, and many of us on SF think otherwise. We are recycling the same info again and again.
I hope in the long term Sir Ducking will change his mind and join us supporting the women’s game. I have a spare ticket for the Wales v Ireand game, and would like to . offer it to Sir Duckling and join me , would be good. We are all scarlets on here, end of the day !
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youre lying I said none of that, yure just deflecting as I asked you for some facts and you failed to provide them
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The question that really needs to be asked is Why do you hate women Are you a threat to women's safety
Looking at your previous posts I would say yes to both |
Ah come on now. That is not called for.
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Oracle
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Posted: 14 March 2023 at 7:07pm |
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