Scarlet Fever Llanelli Rugby Sport Wales Tickets Homepage
Forum Home Forum Home > SOCIAL > CHAT BOARD
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Brexit explained
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login


Brexit explained

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1234>
Author
Message
GPR - Rochester View Drop Down
Veteran
Veteran
Avatar

Joined: 01 December 2014
Location: Rhydcymerau
Status: Offline
Points: 18784
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 April 2023 at 1:09pm
Originally posted by Rob o'r Bont Rob o'r Bont wrote:

Don't think there are any respected analysts of Brexit now trying to say that Brexit is a success. All are saying we are worse off.

A third of leave voters now dubbed 'Bregreters' think it was a mistake to leave the EU. If people had only been correctly informed, think what this would have done to the vote in 2016.  It would have resulted in a whopping 65% Remain to 35% leave.

We have to move on as others are saying but for me, moving on means raising the level of political debate in this country out of the gutter so that we have a democracy that actually works for all, not just the few who have no doubt benefited at the expense of the many who are losing out.


Two things spring to mind Rob - the 65% - 35% whopper you state is in fact a poll is it not? 4 weeks before the Brexit vote the polls showed 60-40 in favour of remain. 

Welcome to this debate by the way. Much has been made over countless pages since Brexit of leavers not having been correctly informed. I am fascinated by what these facts are - I based my decision on a set of facts that are as relevant today as they were then so I would be very interested in what you mean. By the way please don't mention the bloody bus again. LOL
Back to Top
Sponsored Links


Back to Top
Kentexile View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 24 August 2013
Location: Kent
Status: Offline
Points: 616
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kentexile Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 April 2023 at 2:13pm
The Brexit slogan which sold it to me was “vote leave and things will only be a little bit more rubbish than they are now.”
Back to Top
Oracle View Drop Down
Veteran
Veteran
Avatar

Joined: 19 September 2022
Location: North pole
Status: Offline
Points: 3959
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Oracle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 April 2023 at 2:17pm
Of course..I shall remove the statement regarding we don't have a deal with Europe , but the rest of the statement is correct (I believe) ...Is this okay 
Back to Top
GPR - Rochester View Drop Down
Veteran
Veteran
Avatar

Joined: 01 December 2014
Location: Rhydcymerau
Status: Offline
Points: 18784
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 April 2023 at 2:41pm
Originally posted by Oracle Oracle wrote:

Of course..I shall remove the statement regarding we don't have a deal with Europe , but the rest of the statement is correct (I believe) ...Is this okay 

I hate to nit pick about facts Oracle but what the hell now that we are good mates. OuchYou quote 4% per annum fall in DGP - I think this is a guesstimate from the CBR. An actual figure I read recently was an overall fall of 5.5%. From my point of view with everything that has happened since Brexit - Worldwide pandemic and Russian invasion of Ukraine I would probably settle for this sort of figure. Of course we desperately need a new Government with fresh ideas to stimulate growth from now on. 
Back to Top
Oracle View Drop Down
Veteran
Veteran
Avatar

Joined: 19 September 2022
Location: North pole
Status: Offline
Points: 3959
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Oracle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 April 2023 at 3:36pm
Yes the figures were quoted on the radio , I agree with you that we are now on the front benches together but you have to be beware of the back benchers especially the ones with numbers and letters in their names Stern Smile
Back to Top
Rob o'r Bont View Drop Down
Veteran
Veteran
Avatar
Dr. Optimist

Joined: 03 May 2008
Location: Bont
Status: Offline
Points: 14626
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rob o'r Bont Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 April 2023 at 5:33pm
Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Originally posted by Rob o'r Bont Rob o'r Bont wrote:

Don't think there are any respected analysts of Brexit now trying to say that Brexit is a success. All are saying we are worse off.

A third of leave voters now dubbed 'Bregreters' think it was a mistake to leave the EU. If people had only been correctly informed, think what this would have done to the vote in 2016.  It would have resulted in a whopping 65% Remain to 35% leave.

We have to move on as others are saying but for me, moving on means raising the level of political debate in this country out of the gutter so that we have a democracy that actually works for all, not just the few who have no doubt benefited at the expense of the many who are losing out.


Two things spring to mind Rob - the 65% - 35% whopper you state is in fact a poll is it not? 4 weeks before the Brexit vote the polls showed 60-40 in favour of remain. 

Welcome to this debate by the way. Much has been made over countless pages since Brexit of leavers not having been correctly informed. I am fascinated by what these facts are - I based my decision on a set of facts that are as relevant today as they were then so I would be very interested in what you mean. By the way please don't mention the bloody bus again. LOL
I told myslelf I would just post one post in this thread GPR but here I am breaking my own promise to myself. Smile  These Brexit threads are like the Hotel Calafornia - you can check out any time you like, but you can never leave.

To answer your question, I think the main fact that people are disgruntled about is that they were all told that things would be better after Brexit but in fact they are worse. 
In a world where you can be anything – Be Kind.
Back to Top
Eastern outpost View Drop Down
Rambler
Rambler
Avatar

Joined: 13 March 2012
Location: South Suffolk
Status: Online
Points: 21937
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Eastern outpost Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 April 2023 at 5:50pm
On my sole visit to y Parc in February which saw a wonderful reprise of how we used to play rugby every week, once, for the 42-14 win over Edinburgh, I can reveal that one staunch Brexit proponent admitted that we would have been better off remaining in the EU.

No water boarding, although the wine followed by the Guinness over quite a long time might be a nod towards such tactics, was involved. 
In a world where you can be anything – Be Kind.
Back to Top
GPR - Rochester View Drop Down
Veteran
Veteran
Avatar

Joined: 01 December 2014
Location: Rhydcymerau
Status: Offline
Points: 18784
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 April 2023 at 7:11am
Originally posted by Rob o'r Bont Rob o'r Bont wrote:

Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Originally posted by Rob o'r Bont Rob o'r Bont wrote:

Don't think there are any respected analysts of Brexit now trying to say that Brexit is a success. All are saying we are worse off.

A third of leave voters now dubbed 'Bregreters' think it was a mistake to leave the EU. If people had only been correctly informed, think what this would have done to the vote in 2016.  It would have resulted in a whopping 65% Remain to 35% leave.

We have to move on as others are saying but for me, moving on means raising the level of political debate in this country out of the gutter so that we have a democracy that actually works for all, not just the few who have no doubt benefited at the expense of the many who are losing out.


Two things spring to mind Rob - the 65% - 35% whopper you state is in fact a poll is it not? 4 weeks before the Brexit vote the polls showed 60-40 in favour of remain. 

Welcome to this debate by the way. Much has been made over countless pages since Brexit of leavers not having been correctly informed. I am fascinated by what these facts are - I based my decision on a set of facts that are as relevant today as they were then so I would be very interested in what you mean. By the way please don't mention the bloody bus again. LOL
I told myslelf I would just post one post in this thread GPR but here I am breaking my own promise to myself. Smile  These Brexit threads are like the Hotel Calafornia - you can check out any time you like, but you can never leave.

To answer your question, I think the main fact that people are disgruntled about is that they were all told that things would be better after Brexit but in fact they are worse. 

I love that Hotel California comment Rob. I can totally see that we are worse off now generally than we were before Brexit - I get it. My explanation though would place the reasons at the door of the pandemic, fuel crisis and shambolic governance rather than leaving the EU. 

At the time of leaving even with a steady tide it was going to take  a number of years before the financial benefits would show through to GDP; the actual choppy waters have, of course, lengthened that timescale considerably. If I had had a crystal ball which would have predicted the above circumstances I think I would have probably chosen to vote for steady as she goes rather than leave in all honesty.
Back to Top
Eastern outpost View Drop Down
Rambler
Rambler
Avatar

Joined: 13 March 2012
Location: South Suffolk
Status: Online
Points: 21937
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Eastern outpost Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 April 2023 at 8:00am
Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Originally posted by Rob o'r Bont Rob o'r Bont wrote:

Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Originally posted by Rob o'r Bont Rob o'r Bont wrote:

Don't think there are any respected analysts of Brexit now trying to say that Brexit is a success. All are saying we are worse off.

A third of leave voters now dubbed 'Bregreters' think it was a mistake to leave the EU. If people had only been correctly informed, think what this would have done to the vote in 2016.  It would have resulted in a whopping 65% Remain to 35% leave.

We have to move on as others are saying but for me, moving on means raising the level of political debate in this country out of the gutter so that we have a democracy that actually works for all, not just the few who have no doubt benefited at the expense of the many who are losing out.


Two things spring to mind Rob - the 65% - 35% whopper you state is in fact a poll is it not? 4 weeks before the Brexit vote the polls showed 60-40 in favour of remain. 

Welcome to this debate by the way. Much has been made over countless pages since Brexit of leavers not having been correctly informed. I am fascinated by what these facts are - I based my decision on a set of facts that are as relevant today as they were then so I would be very interested in what you mean. By the way please don't mention the bloody bus again. LOL
I told myslelf I would just post one post in this thread GPR but here I am breaking my own promise to myself. Smile  These Brexit threads are like the Hotel Calafornia - you can check out any time you like, but you can never leave.

To answer your question, I think the main fact that people are disgruntled about is that they were all told that things would be better after Brexit but in fact they are worse. 

I love that Hotel California comment Rob. I can totally see that we are worse off now generally than we were before Brexit - I get it. My explanation though would place the reasons at the door of the pandemic, fuel crisis and shambolic governance rather than leaving the EU. 

At the time of leaving even with a steady tide it was going to take  a number of years before the financial benefits would show through to GDP; the actual choppy waters have, of course, lengthened that timescale considerably. If I had had a crystal ball which would have predicted the above circumstances I think I would have probably chosen to vote for steady as she goes rather than leave in all honesty.
I believe this might well be a “champagne moment” for those who would have preferred to have remained in the EU, despite its faults.

In a world where you can be anything – Be Kind.
Back to Top
Eastern outpost View Drop Down
Rambler
Rambler
Avatar

Joined: 13 March 2012
Location: South Suffolk
Status: Online
Points: 21937
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Eastern outpost Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 April 2023 at 8:21am
On the passport control hoohah at Dover last weekend, just wait to when the ETIAS system is introduced.

It requires every passenger to get out of their vehicle and give fingerprints and be photographed. There’s a fee, of course. Can’t remember the exact details as its introduction has been postponed twice, maybe more.

iirc, the ETIAS last for 3 years. However, the havoc it will create when folk are getting them for the first time at the point of departure will be far worse than we’ve seen recently.

It’s great putting advance passenger info on the sites that allow/require this. If only something like that can be done for this then it would be great. However, how can you be sure to get the right fingerprints etc other than by a personal appearance somewhere?

The current visa system requires all applicants to turn up at Wandsworth, Manchester or Edinburgh with lots of info and proofs of various things - place to stay, health cover (a GHIC card) and adequate finances. Those are for visas of 6 months or 12 and other visas for studying or working off different lengths.

No politicians would remind those in the queues that its what they voted for. 
In a world where you can be anything – Be Kind.
Back to Top
GPR - Rochester View Drop Down
Veteran
Veteran
Avatar

Joined: 01 December 2014
Location: Rhydcymerau
Status: Offline
Points: 18784
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 April 2023 at 8:22am
One of the most important attributes for any sports person or indeed politician is balance. Not many great rugby backs, footballers, cricketers, tennis players or golfers would have achieved that status without it let alone jockeys. The ability to see others views and formulate a consensus is fundamental to good politics. Unfortunately we in Britain have been starved of politicians with this attribute for far too long. 
Back to Top
John View Drop Down
Veteran
Veteran


Joined: 15 August 2004
Status: Offline
Points: 4995
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote John Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 April 2023 at 8:43am
What amazes me is that the current government, put there in a wave of "get brexit done", shows so little interest in getting brexit to work for the electorate. The examples are many- from northern Ireland to the Dover queues. Add in problems that brexit was promised to, but was never going to, solve like illegal immigration and this will lead to a future referendum, maybe decades in the future but possibly rather sooner. 
Back to Top
GPR - Rochester View Drop Down
Veteran
Veteran
Avatar

Joined: 01 December 2014
Location: Rhydcymerau
Status: Offline
Points: 18784
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 April 2023 at 8:55am
Originally posted by John John wrote:

What amazes me is that the current government, put there in a wave of "get brexit done", shows so little interest in getting brexit to work for the electorate. The examples are many- from northern Ireland to the Dover queues. Add in problems that brexit was promised to, but was never going to, solve like illegal immigration and this will lead to a future referendum, maybe decades in the future but possibly rather sooner. 

Inept & totally lacking foresight & ideas drowning in their self made quagmire of corruption, sleeze & perpetual self preservation of self profiteering. 
Back to Top
dr_martinov View Drop Down
Veteran
Veteran
Avatar

Joined: 06 August 2005
Location: Tycoch
Status: Offline
Points: 13286
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dr_martinov Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 April 2023 at 9:45am
Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

One of the most important attributes for any sports person or indeed politician is balance. Not many great rugby backs, footballers, cricketers, tennis players or golfers would have achieved that status without it let alone jockeys. The ability to see others views and formulate a consensus is fundamental to good politics. Unfortunately we in Britain have been starved of politicians with this attribute for far too long. 

It's due to cynical electioneering from Johnson (a proven liar who many people were willing to vote in as PM) et al. in constant "campaign mode". Elected off the back of Brexit, and backed by most of our media, they polarised the issue to discredit any actual discussion; any criticism or proposal that differed to theirs was labelled a "betrayal" by people "who wanted to reverse Brexit" and so on.

There were multiple directions post-Brexit could have taken but this ended up being an internal power struggle in the ruling Government who were also maintaining their own power by describing themselves as the only party in favour of, and able to deliver, Brexit. 

Despite my view it was an error at the time, where I viewed the benefits of EU membership outweighing the cons, nothing has appeared to convince me otherwise as essentially no new benefits have appeared. My view is in part due to that deliberate polarisation above combined with the selection of Johnson as their leader, the Conservatives have ensured public trust in politicians is at an all time low so I wouldn't trust anything describing new deals as "world leading" and so on; this is just meaningless campaign talk yet again. You reap what you sow. But we can at least agree it has been mismanaged to an extreme level by a group of incompetent and corrupt politicians.


Edited by dr_martinov - 06 April 2023 at 10:31am
Back to Top
aber-fan View Drop Down
Veteran
Veteran
Avatar

Joined: 25 October 2004
Location: Wales
Status: Offline
Points: 18857
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aber-fan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 April 2023 at 1:18pm
Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Originally posted by Rob o'r Bont Rob o'r Bont wrote:

Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Originally posted by Rob o'r Bont Rob o'r Bont wrote:

Don't think there are any respected analysts of Brexit now trying to say that Brexit is a success. All are saying we are worse off.

A third of leave voters now dubbed 'Bregreters' think it was a mistake to leave the EU. If people had only been correctly informed, think what this would have done to the vote in 2016.  It would have resulted in a whopping 65% Remain to 35% leave.

We have to move on as others are saying but for me, moving on means raising the level of political debate in this country out of the gutter so that we have a democracy that actually works for all, not just the few who have no doubt benefited at the expense of the many who are losing out.


Two things spring to mind Rob - the 65% - 35% whopper you state is in fact a poll is it not? 4 weeks before the Brexit vote the polls showed 60-40 in favour of remain. 

Welcome to this debate by the way. Much has been made over countless pages since Brexit of leavers not having been correctly informed. I am fascinated by what these facts are - I based my decision on a set of facts that are as relevant today as they were then so I would be very interested in what you mean. By the way please don't mention the bloody bus again. LOL
I told myslelf I would just post one post in this thread GPR but here I am breaking my own promise to myself. Smile  These Brexit threads are like the Hotel Calafornia - you can check out any time you like, but you can never leave.

To answer your question, I think the main fact that people are disgruntled about is that they were all told that things would be better after Brexit but in fact they are worse. 

I love that Hotel California comment Rob. I can totally see that we are worse off now generally than we were before Brexit - I get it. My explanation though would place the reasons at the door of the pandemic, fuel crisis and shambolic governance rather than leaving the EU. 

At the time of leaving even with a steady tide it was going to take  a number of years before the financial benefits would show through to GDP; the actual choppy waters have, of course, lengthened that timescale considerably. If I had had a crystal ball which would have predicted the above circumstances I think I would have probably chosen to vote for steady as she goes rather than leave in all honesty.

Well, Hallelujah!

I never thought I'd live long enough to read those words. 

Although you blame the downturn in the UK's economy on other factors, IMHO Brexit was a major contributor to how badly things have gone (I know those other factors played a not insignificant part too). The best way to judge that is to compare the UK economy with those of the larger EU countries - the UK has done significantly worse, even though Germany (for example) is far more dependent on Russian gas and oil than the UK.
“You cannot reason a man out of what he never reasoned himself into.” (Jonathan Swift)
Back to Top
aber-fan View Drop Down
Veteran
Veteran
Avatar

Joined: 25 October 2004
Location: Wales
Status: Offline
Points: 18857
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aber-fan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 April 2023 at 1:28pm
Originally posted by roy munster roy munster wrote:

Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Originally posted by roy munster roy munster wrote:

Originally posted by Oracle Oracle wrote:

There is no trade agreement with Europe currently but the UK has just signed one with oceana which brings in an additional 0.08% to our GDP ...which has gone down by 4% per year since Brexit ...so effectively it will take 5 years to offset leaving the European market , but if course by then we would have lost 20% , so the only emotion it stirs in a normal person is tears of sorrow 

The UK Trade Agreement with the eu was signed on 30 December 2020, was applied provisionally as of 1 January 2021 and entered into force on 1 May 2021

Thanks Roy - these facts really do get in the way of  a good story. Ouch

Just trying to bring some balance back to the 1 eyed universe😂

Well, you are not telling the whole story though Roy.

I assume this 'deal' is the one negotiated by Boris Johnson - who then, two years later, threatened to tear it up himself!

"Boris Johnson on Monday defied a chorus of criticism and published legislation to rip up his 2020 Brexit deal with the EU, insisting there was “no other way” of protecting the peace process in Northern Ireland."
(Financial Times, June 13 2022)
“You cannot reason a man out of what he never reasoned himself into.” (Jonathan Swift)
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1234>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.04
Copyright ©2001-2021 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.141 seconds.