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Gallagher Final : Welsh connection

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tigerburnie View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tigerburnie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 July 2022 at 8:27pm
Originally posted by John John wrote:

Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Originally posted by Eastern outpost Eastern outpost wrote:

In order for us to compete in the URC and Europe, we need as much help as we can get so the « repatriation » of our internationals would be of enormous benefit.

Equally, having better coaches would help and there seems to be less restriction nationality wise on who you have in your off-pitch expertise.

If we produced as many players of quality as, for example, RSA, i wouldn’t be so concerned. Also, if the WRU funded the professional clubs on something much better than the starvation diet it’s grudgingly doled out over the years, again, there’d be less concern.

The 12 day HIA protocol, as others have said, is a counter to smaller pro squads. The coaching team and the Finance Director will be having many an interesting negotiation at all clubs in the coming season as a result.

Undoubtedly smaller squads by economic necessity will mean huge challenges going forward. However forcing players to repatriate so they can carry on playing for Wales is neanderthal. In most other professions it would be deemed discriminatory. A cursory glance around the four regional squads & I really wonder would Reffell have become No 1 7 at any of the regions over the past seasons - competition would have been enormous - Tipuric, Morgan, Josh McLoud, Cubby, Navidi, Botham, Ellis Jenkins, Ollie Griffiths, Basham etc. Likewise Aled Davies went from being 2nd/3rd string at both the Scarlets & Ospreys to being one of the stand out scrum halves in the Premiership by being given constant starts. 

The WRU pay lip service to the regions when they state that the 60 cap rule is meant to strengthen regional rugby - the very same regions who are still waiting to hear what sort of ongoing finance they will have available next season and onwards; the very same regions who have had to drastically reduce squad size due to financial constraints. South Africa became World champions by picking the best 31 qualified players regardless of where they play their rugby - pretty hard nosed South African logic which, for me, makes total sense.

Finally a question for those who support the 60 cap rule - could you please explain to me over the years in which it has been active how much improvement we have seen in regional rugby fortunes? 

Its not about any of the things you mention- its about availability of players to go to international squad training as and when Pivac wants them- nothing more or less. And if an English club won't release a player when Pivac wants them outside the international window, then it really is quite fair, and not discriminatory, to say to the player- if you're not available for training, you're not getting to play.
even if it's your best player? sounds like madness to me, 50% of your best players is better than 100% of average.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 July 2022 at 5:59am
Originally posted by tigerburnie tigerburnie wrote:

Originally posted by John John wrote:

Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Originally posted by Eastern outpost Eastern outpost wrote:

In order for us to compete in the URC and Europe, we need as much help as we can get so the « repatriation » of our internationals would be of enormous benefit.

Equally, having better coaches would help and there seems to be less restriction nationality wise on who you have in your off-pitch expertise.

If we produced as many players of quality as, for example, RSA, i wouldn’t be so concerned. Also, if the WRU funded the professional clubs on something much better than the starvation diet it’s grudgingly doled out over the years, again, there’d be less concern.

The 12 day HIA protocol, as others have said, is a counter to smaller pro squads. The coaching team and the Finance Director will be having many an interesting negotiation at all clubs in the coming season as a result.

Undoubtedly smaller squads by economic necessity will mean huge challenges going forward. However forcing players to repatriate so they can carry on playing for Wales is neanderthal. In most other professions it would be deemed discriminatory. A cursory glance around the four regional squads & I really wonder would Reffell have become No 1 7 at any of the regions over the past seasons - competition would have been enormous - Tipuric, Morgan, Josh McLoud, Cubby, Navidi, Botham, Ellis Jenkins, Ollie Griffiths, Basham etc. Likewise Aled Davies went from being 2nd/3rd string at both the Scarlets & Ospreys to being one of the stand out scrum halves in the Premiership by being given constant starts. 

The WRU pay lip service to the regions when they state that the 60 cap rule is meant to strengthen regional rugby - the very same regions who are still waiting to hear what sort of ongoing finance they will have available next season and onwards; the very same regions who have had to drastically reduce squad size due to financial constraints. South Africa became World champions by picking the best 31 qualified players regardless of where they play their rugby - pretty hard nosed South African logic which, for me, makes total sense.

Finally a question for those who support the 60 cap rule - could you please explain to me over the years in which it has been active how much improvement we have seen in regional rugby fortunes? 

Its not about any of the things you mention- its about availability of players to go to international squad training as and when Pivac wants them- nothing more or less. And if an English club won't release a player when Pivac wants them outside the international window, then it really is quite fair, and not discriminatory, to say to the player- if you're not available for training, you're not getting to play.
even if it's your best player? sounds like madness to me, 50% of your best players is better than 100% of average.

Precisely Tigerburnie - total madness.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NobbySosban Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 July 2022 at 1:23pm
Originally posted by tigerburnie tigerburnie wrote:

even if it's your best player? sounds like madness to me, 50% of your best players is better than 100% of average.
'Best players' come and go with form & injuries, but policies have to last the distance - dropping the 60 Cap rule would give the green light to all players to go to England or France with impunity, making it even harder for Wales to prepare for Test windows.

Capping LRZ & Tommy gives them a taste the possibilities of the International environment - if that makes them consider a move back to Wales once their current contract expires, that's all to the good. But if they're happier staying where they are than continuing their Test careers, that's fine too. It's an invidious choice, by design, but still the right thing to do for the good of the game in Wales.

I spent a few years studying in Leicester and managed to get to Welford Road fairly regularly - loved the winning mentality and family feel of the club (exemplified by the support for the Youngs family, especially this season), hated the 'world's narrowest pitch' brand of rugby. LOL But I can see how it would be a wrench for Reffell to leave the environment he's come of age within.


Edited by NobbySosban - 13 July 2022 at 1:24pm
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Mr Ian View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mr Ian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 July 2022 at 11:47am
Seems Is starting a new tournament between Irisc team A, some Boks club and italian team...no welsh
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tigerburnie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 July 2022 at 9:32am
Sure you will have read this, seems to explain what is going on quite well.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RR1972 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 July 2022 at 10:26am
Good news for leicester bad news for the welsh regions. Hopefully we will see him expand on his game and develop his handling and carrying skills to go with his breakdown work. Is neil back still there in any capacity?

Edited by RR1972 - 27 July 2022 at 11:03am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Eastern outpost Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 July 2022 at 12:28pm
The one thing that any Premiership club can’t possibly offer is the feeling of being back home where your roots are.

If that’s what a player wants, then no amount of extension options provided they require willingness of both parties will keep a player “abroad”.
In a world where you can be anything – Be Kind.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tigerburnie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 July 2022 at 1:19pm
I'm sure Tommy is a level headed lad and will make the right decision for himself, with Van Staden going back to South Africa due to concussion issues, he will be Tigers first choice 7 and his salary may well reflect that. He has another couple of years before he comes to one of the option times, so I'm told. I don't see Tigers getting in his way as far as internationals are concerned as long as Wales don't play outside of the agreed windows. The lure to "go home" is an interesting one, only he will be able to answer that one. Finally, Neil Back hasn't been involved at Tigers for a very long time.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RR1972 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 July 2022 at 2:35pm
Wales will play plenty of games outside the test window we aleYs do!Wink
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