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The referee's question to the TMO

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    Posted: 15 April 2013 at 2:03pm
On the weekend, Nigel Owens refered a decision to the TMO. He asked him "Try yes or no"?

A player then went up to Nigel and said "Sor, sor, why did ye not ask t'other question sor?"

i.e - why didn't he ask "Is there any reason I can't award the try"

And Nigel's response was, "I can only ask the other question if I thought he'd scored, but I'm not certain"

So, is this a referee directive that Nigel is employing?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PearlJam Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 April 2013 at 8:32am
I always thought the referee's questions to the TMO were quite arbitrary. But he seems to be implying there is two-options:

"Try, yes or no" - the referee has no idea if the ball has been grounded over the white wash
"Is there any reason why I may not award the try" - his bias is that he believes it to be a try

But when you refer it to the TMO - he's looking to see if the ball was grounded, so the phrasing of the question is irrelevant isn't it?

The TMOs in the northern hemisphere aren't looking for foul-play, knock-ons, forward passes or what not in the build up so they are just looking for grounding. When it gets into Super Rugby territory - and whether or not their rules come up here - then the question becomes a bit more critical I guess. "Take it back two phases, any foul play in the build up / was there a foot in touch".

How many phases can they take the play back to (maximum) out of interest?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote haydn_davies Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 April 2013 at 8:35am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aber-fan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 April 2013 at 8:36am
Originally posted by PearlJam PearlJam wrote:

I always thought the referee's questions to the TMO were quite arbitrary. But he seems to be implying there is two-options:

"Try, yes or no" - the referee has no idea if the ball has been grounded over the white wash
"Is there any reason why I may not award the try" - his bias is that he believes it to be a try

But when you refer it to the TMO - he's looking to see if the ball was grounded, so the phrasing of the question is irrelevant isn't it?

The TMOs in the northern hemisphere aren't looking for foul-play, knock-ons, forward passes or what not in the build up so they are just looking for grounding. When it gets into Super Rugby territory - and whether or not their rules come up here - then the question becomes a bit more critical I guess. "Take it back two phases, any foul play in the build up / was there a foot in touch".

How many phases can they take the play back to (maximum) out of interest?



No idea - but at the weekend, a try was awarded by the TMO, even though it resulted from an illegal quick throw-in in the in goal area.

Can any of the refs out there explain how that happened???
“You cannot reason a man out of what he never reasoned himself into.” (Jonathan Swift)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote haydn_davies Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 April 2013 at 8:37am
Originally posted by aber-fan aber-fan wrote:


Originally posted by PearlJam PearlJam wrote:

I always thought the referee's questions to the TMO were quite arbitrary. But he seems to be implying there is two-options:

"Try, yes or no" - the referee has no idea if the ball has been grounded over the white wash
"Is there any reason why I may not award the try" - his bias is that he believes it to be a try

But when you refer it to the TMO - he's looking to see if the ball was grounded, so the phrasing of the question is irrelevant isn't it?

The TMOs in the northern hemisphere aren't looking for foul-play, knock-ons, forward passes or what not in the build up so they are just looking for grounding. When it gets into Super Rugby territory - and whether or not their rules come up here - then the question becomes a bit more critical I guess. "Take it back two phases, any foul play in the build up / was there a foot in touch".

How many phases can they take the play back to (maximum) out of interest?



No idea - but at the weekend, a try was awarded by the TMO, even though it resulted from an illegal quick throw-in in the in goal area.

Can any of the refs out there explain how that happened???

...and the try scorer had a foot in touch when he caught the ball before moving it immediately before grounding the ball.
Think, think, think - it's a thinking man's game!! - The Great Carwyn James.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aber-fan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 April 2013 at 8:44am
Originally posted by haydn_davies haydn_davies wrote:

Originally posted by aber-fan aber-fan wrote:


Originally posted by PearlJam PearlJam wrote:

I always thought the referee's questions to the TMO were quite arbitrary. But he seems to be implying there is two-options:

"Try, yes or no" - the referee has no idea if the ball has been grounded over the white wash
"Is there any reason why I may not award the try" - his bias is that he believes it to be a try

But when you refer it to the TMO - he's looking to see if the ball was grounded, so the phrasing of the question is irrelevant isn't it?

The TMOs in the northern hemisphere aren't looking for foul-play, knock-ons, forward passes or what not in the build up so they are just looking for grounding. When it gets into Super Rugby territory - and whether or not their rules come up here - then the question becomes a bit more critical I guess. "Take it back two phases, any foul play in the build up / was there a foot in touch".

How many phases can they take the play back to (maximum) out of interest?



No idea - but at the weekend, a try was awarded by the TMO, even though it resulted from an illegal quick throw-in in the in goal area.

Can any of the refs out there explain how that happened???

...and the try scorer had a foot in touch when he caught the ball before moving it immediately before grounding the ball.


Indeed!LOL

I forgot that bit!
“You cannot reason a man out of what he never reasoned himself into.” (Jonathan Swift)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scarletman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 April 2013 at 10:18am
Pearl Jam, you are in the wrong career path .... Wink

Two Questions can be asked of the TMO

  1. "Is it a try, Yes or No ?" .. Generally asked if the Referee is unsighted or the possible grounding of the ball is obscured by bodies. This method throws ALL decisions to the TMO !
  2. "Is there any reason why I can not award a try ?" - with this question, the Referee has seen the ball grounded, but may have reservations about the legalities or possible infringement "in the process of scoring a try".
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aber-fan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 April 2013 at 8:27am
Originally posted by scarletman scarletman wrote:

Pearl Jam, you are in the wrong career path .... Wink

Two Questions can be asked of the TMO

  1. "Is it a try, Yes or No ?" .. Generally asked if the Referee is unsighted or the possible grounding of the ball is obscured by bodies. This method throws ALL decisions to the TMO !
  2. "Is there any reason why I can not award a try ?" - with this question, the Referee has seen the ball grounded, but may have reservations about the legalities or possible infringement "in the process of scoring a try".


Scarletman, you've answered the first Q - fair enough - (most of us knew this) - but have you any rational explanation as to why the TMO at the weekend awarded the try which was clearly illegal?
“You cannot reason a man out of what he never reasoned himself into.” (Jonathan Swift)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scarletman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 April 2013 at 2:38pm
Originally posted by aber-fan aber-fan wrote:

Originally posted by scarletman scarletman wrote:

Pearl Jam, you are in the wrong career path .... Wink

Two Questions can be asked of the TMO

  1. "Is it a try, Yes or No ?" .. Generally asked if the Referee is unsighted or the possible grounding of the ball is obscured by bodies. This method throws ALL decisions to the TMO !
  2. "Is there any reason why I can not award a try ?" - with this question, the Referee has seen the ball grounded, but may have reservations about the legalities or possible infringement "in the process of scoring a try".


Scarletman, you've answered the first Q - fair enough - (most of us knew this) - but have you any rational explanation as to why the TMO at the weekend awarded the try which was clearly illegal?


No, as I didn't see the game !
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JacMorgan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 April 2013 at 3:50pm
It looked to me as if the TMO had made a shocking decision which sometimes happens
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Gate12 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 April 2013 at 8:12am
There's been some shocking tmo calls this season, our try against the Dragons, Ospreys try v Treviso, Fenby's non try v the Ospreys, etc. etc. etc.
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