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Kicking the ball out of a player's hands

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RR1972 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RR1972 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 March 2014 at 4:52pm
btw can Scarletman or anyone else confirm that if the ball is stripped off an opponent but goes forward towards the line your attacking that it is still a knock on?

I was under the impression it was?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote aber-fan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 March 2014 at 4:56pm
Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

Originally posted by scarletman scarletman wrote:

This is an awkward one, as far as I can remember, there is no written law on "kicking the ball out of an opponents hand" . However it IS considered to be Dangerous Play.

Incidentally, The incident concerned was a Ruck, Josh was NOT bound with at least one arm therefore he had no right to play the ball legally or otherwise !


the grewcock incident was in 2005 and he got sin binned so did alfie when we ran in and pushed him in retaliation.

You cannot kick the ball out of a players hands, but if you are kicking the ball out of a ruck (your legally part of) the ball is not in the players hands and is still part of the ruck so you can kick it.

This is a very grey area (see link below)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OJPGIoVT4MY

Didn't a welsh player kick a ball out of an English players hands during a 7s game as he was about to score a try? It wasn't penalised but it should have been
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TlzZIT_p83w



Thanks for reminding me of that - the memory plays tricks, at my age!

Found this highlights clip on YouTube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZGFFu8u0wlc

I'd also forgotten it was the day Henson made his name with that penalty - pity he frittered away his talent by adopting a celebrity life-style.
“You cannot reason a man out of what he never reasoned himself into.” (Jonathan Swift)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scarletman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 March 2014 at 5:26pm
Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

btw can Scarletman or anyone else confirm that if the ball is stripped off an opponent but goes forward towards the line your attacking that it is still a knock on?

I was under the impression it was?


A knock-on occurs when a player loses possession of the ball and it goes forward, or when a player hits the ball forward with the hand or arm, or when the ball hits the hand or arm and goes forward, and the ball touches the ground or another player before the original player can catch it.

‘Forward’ means towards the opposing team’s dead ball line.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote haydn_davies Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 March 2014 at 10:06pm
Originally posted by scarletman scarletman wrote:

Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

btw can Scarletman or anyone else confirm that if the ball is stripped off an opponent but goes forward towards the line your attacking that it is still a knock on?

I was under the impression it was?


<span ="plain" style="">A </span><span ="bold" style="">knock-on </span><span ="plain" style="">occurs
when a player loses possession of the ball and it goes forward, or when
a player hits the ball forward with the hand or arm, or when the ball
hits the hand or arm and goes forward, and the ball touches the ground
or another player before the original player can catch it.</span><p ="plain" style="">‘Forward’ means towards the opposing team’s dead ball line.



Funilly enough, that's what it says about a forward pass in the law book too.

But some fool has bought in the 'hands' now!!
Think, think, think - it's a thinking man's game!! - The Great Carwyn James.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RR1972 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 March 2014 at 9:37am
Originally posted by scarletman scarletman wrote:

Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

btw can Scarletman or anyone else confirm that if the ball is stripped off an opponent but goes forward towards the line your attacking that it is still a knock on?

I was under the impression it was?


<span ="plain" style="">A </span><span ="bold" style="">knock-on </span><span ="plain" style="">occurs
when a player loses possession of the ball and it goes forward, or when
a player hits the ball forward with the hand or arm, or when the ball
hits the hand or arm and goes forward, and the ball touches the ground
or another player before the original player can catch it.</span><p ="plain" style="">‘Forward’ means towards the opposing team’s dead ball line.




so if I tackle you one on one and I strip the ball off you in contact and it goes forward towards the line I'm attacking without it being caught that's a knock on?

I like the hands backward rule myself at least awards attacking play

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KID A Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 March 2014 at 9:43am
Originally posted by haydn_davies haydn_davies wrote:


Funilly enough, that's what it says about a forward pass in the law book too.


It says "PASSED" forward not "TRAVELS" forward.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aber-fan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 March 2014 at 3:05pm
Originally posted by KID A KID A wrote:

Originally posted by haydn_davies haydn_davies wrote:


Funilly enough, that's what it says about a forward pass in the law book too.


It says "PASSED" forward not "TRAVELS" forward.



Whereas we could argue about what to do WRT balls travelling forward as a result of 'relative velocity', far too many refs - especially SH refs - don't spot or call forward passes which travel a short distance to a supporting runner.

If the ball only travels 1 or 2 metres from passer to catcher, even if both are running forwards flat out, it won't travel far forward as a result of relative velocity. So either these refs are blind, or they're too thick to understand that the 'drift' which can occur is only significant when the ball has travelled quite a distance to the catcher!

(This is another reason why it's probably not a good idea to introduce these get-out clauses - people get confused.)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scarletman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 March 2014 at 4:55pm
The essence is in the hand movement ... if the hand travel backward towards his own dead ball line, even by a tiny fraction, then the pass is backwards ! If the wind or players momentum causes the ball to travel in the opposite direction the it is not the pass that has caused this ! So in effect the "pass" is the time up to the split second the ball leaves the players hands !
Herman Tours ... Still the best way to travel !
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