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Is America becoming a failed state?

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roy munster View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roy munster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 January 2021 at 5:57pm
Whats your opinion on the escalating numbers of drone strikes by the US but but UK Israel UAE and a few other nations having started buying them too...Are they legal/moral?
ROYMOND MUNTER MBE (FOR SERVICES TO THE COMBOVER)
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Dai Guevara View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dai Guevara Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 January 2021 at 11:16pm
Originally posted by dr_martinov dr_martinov wrote:

Originally posted by Dai Guevara Dai Guevara wrote:

doc
     I'll defend the vast majority of the ideas in those links that you want to debate - individual points, if the lot is too wide a scope, but to dismiss the entirety as the "familiar condescending language of the far left" is in itself the sort of condescending language used by the mainstream media to dismiss, without argument, ideas, that their journalists think would upset their bosses.


It's generalising not condescending but point taken. A previous poster on here named Ffidel Bennett called me brainwashed at one point for mentioning something they disagreed with, for example. 


And what was that topic about- did he present an argument against what you were saying, or did he too just make a sweeping generalisation to dismiss any point you were making by labelling you in an insulting way?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dai Guevara Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 January 2021 at 11:26pm
Originally posted by roy munster roy munster wrote:

Whats your opinion on the escalating numbers of drone strikes by the US but but UK Israel UAE and a few other nations having started buying them too...Are they legal/moral?


You only have to ask how those countries would react if they were used against their homelands. I suspect that killing people with drones is very much against international law although the "top dogs" get away with it basically because so much of the billionaire world media, backs them, and most of their own populations either don't know what they're doing or don't care.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roy munster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 January 2021 at 12:04am
Bush used 57 drone strikes Obama 583 officially , Trumps are classified. The collateral damage which is a cold scientific way of saying the number fo innocent people killed are estimated to be hundreds possible over 1000...Call me naive but I thought you had to get some kind of legal approval to invade a country

Edited by roy munster - 23 January 2021 at 12:05am
ROYMOND MUNTER MBE (FOR SERVICES TO THE COMBOVER)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dr_martinov Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 January 2021 at 9:12am
Originally posted by Dai Guevara Dai Guevara wrote:

Originally posted by dr_martinov dr_martinov wrote:

Originally posted by Dai Guevara Dai Guevara wrote:

doc
     I'll defend the vast majority of the ideas in those links that you want to debate - individual points, if the lot is too wide a scope, but to dismiss the entirety as the "familiar condescending language of the far left" is in itself the sort of condescending language used by the mainstream media to dismiss, without argument, ideas, that their journalists think would upset their bosses.


It's generalising not condescending but point taken. A previous poster on here named Ffidel Bennett called me brainwashed at one point for mentioning something they disagreed with, for example. 


And what was that topic about- did he present an argument against what you were saying, or did he too just make a sweeping generalisation to dismiss any point you were making by labelling you in an insulting way?

I acknowledge my generalisation was unfair and I realise you can find evidence of condescending views/opinions across the political spectrum. So I repeat: point taken.

You say "did he too just make a sweeping generalisation to dismiss any point you were making by labelling you in an insulting way". I object to that, I never dismissed the point you were making nor labelled you in an insulting way. I simply said I did not wish to read a link to a blog you posted because I found the title to be condescending. The other one came across as extreme and implied offensive content. Unless you wrote the article, I fail to see how you have taken personal offence.

You also generalise all the time about "billionaire backed mainstream media" and the US by the way. I think we should probably just accept we all do it and have our own tribal prejudices, following whatever media sources we like and trust, be that paper, blog, person etc. Part of their modus operandi to retain readers is naturally going to be to discredit other sources. Maybe Ffidell was right, I am a bit brainwashed. But if I am, so is he.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RR1972 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 January 2021 at 9:57am
Originally posted by roy munster roy munster wrote:

Bush used 57 drone strikes Obama 583 officially , Trumps are classified. The collateral damage which is a cold scientific way of saying the number fo innocent people killed are estimated to be hundreds possible over 1000...Call me naive but I thought you had to get some kind of legal approval to invade a country
not if your taking a pre emptive strike to protect your own nation and it’s people

Edited by RR1972 - 23 January 2021 at 9:59am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 January 2021 at 10:18am
Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

Originally posted by roy munster roy munster wrote:

Bush used 57 drone strikes Obama 583 officially , Trumps are classified. The collateral damage which is a cold scientific way of saying the number fo innocent people killed are estimated to be hundreds possible over 1000...Call me naive but I thought you had to get some kind of legal approval to invade a country
not if your taking a pre emptive strike to protect your own nation and it’s people

RR I'd love to know how many of those 583 drone strikes had any impact on the folks living in Florida!!!! I am afraid trying to justify those actions should be confined to reality - my stock of weapons is bigger than yours - you will do as I say. That type of behaviour is called bullying in the school playgrounds and in my experience doesn't usually end up well for the person/nation doing the bullying. 

God forbid that future American presidents don't end up paying the price when another catastrophe like the twin towers occurs. You tend to reap what you sow in this life.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RR1972 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 January 2021 at 10:28am
Their arguement would be taking out terrorists or people planning attacks in the usa in havens like syria somalia etc saves another 9/11.  Drone strikes less risk to your own special forces than to put boots on the ground And take these people out. I don’t know just explaining the logic behind them

Edited by RR1972 - 23 January 2021 at 10:28am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dr_martinov Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 January 2021 at 10:32am
Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

Their arguement would be taking out terrorists or people planning attacks in the usa in havens like syria somalia etc saves another 9/11.  Drone strikes less risk to your own special forces than to put boots on the ground And take these people out. I don’t know just explaining the logic behind them

Ah but 9/11 was an inside job of course....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 January 2021 at 11:05am
Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

Their arguement would be taking out terrorists or people planning attacks in the usa in havens like syria somalia etc saves another 9/11.  Drone strikes less risk to your own special forces than to put boots on the ground And take these people out. I don’t know just explaining the logic behind them

I take your point RR but where does this endless merry go round end? It will only really end at the negotiating table. Who of us Western apparently civilised people can fail to have any sympathy for the causes of Middle Eastern people who only see America as murderers who are intent on having everything their own way.

Why should Iran not have access to nuclear capability when their sworn enemies over decades have them? When is the so called civilised Western World going to realise that the age of colonialism is over.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RR1972 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 January 2021 at 11:11am
All above my pay grade mate. The west need to realise our idea  of democracy doesn’t work for everyone so leave them do their own thing. As long as they not committing genocide or harbouring people who plan to harm us
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dai Guevara Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 January 2021 at 12:05pm
The USA has over 800 foreign military bases scattered all over the globe (including Guantanamo in Cuba where leaks have shown that it uses torture on prisoners). Why would a country that is only interested in self defence need all these? The truth is that they are there to maintain the dominant position of the dollar and the unrestrained economic and financial exploitation of countries it regards as inferior. Woe betide anyone that steps out of line. Then a series of measures begin to be imposed, starting with a propaganda assault, followed by sanctions, coups and if still resisting all out military attack, usually justified by media lies like weapons of mass destruction or genocide eg Iraq, Libya -two rich, uncooperative, oil producing countries now totally destroyed.
At one time they used to say-
The business of America is Business.
Now more apt would be -
The business of America is War
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RR1972 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 January 2021 at 12:08pm
I’m not a huge fan of usa foreign policy or china’s tbh, both in it for themselves
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 January 2021 at 12:12pm
Originally posted by Dai Guevara Dai Guevara wrote:

The USA has over 800 foreign military bases scattered all over the globe (including Guantanamo in Cuba where leaks have shown that it uses torture on prisoners). Why would a country that is only interested in self defence need all these? The truth is that they are there to maintain the dominant position of the dollar and the unrestrained economic and financial exploitation of countries it regards as inferior. Woe betide anyone that steps out of line. Then a series of measures begin to be imposed, starting with a propaganda assault, followed by sanctions, coups and if still resisting all out military attack, usually justified by media lies like weapons of mass destruction or genocide eg Iraq, Libya -two rich, uncooperative, oil producing countries now totally destroyed.
At one time they used to say-
The business of America is Business.
Now more apt would be -
The business of America is War

Cannot really argue with those FACTS or your sentiments in all honesty Dai. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dr_martinov Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 January 2021 at 1:03pm
Likewise. I think if the us wasn't doing it, another superpower in Russia or China would be. Bullies rule the world and probably always have done and will. Smaller nations like the UK, France and Germany have to pick a side or try and form some alliance to compete. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dr_martinov Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 January 2021 at 1:06pm
What's that saying, if you seek peace prepare for war?
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