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Josh Navidi
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aber-fan View Drop Down
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Joined: 25 October 2004
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Points: 16675 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aber-fan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 March 2021 at 1:58pm
Originally posted by roy munster roy munster wrote:

Originally posted by dyniol53 dyniol53 wrote:

I find that fans, punters, pundits tend to have a bias towards players who are really really good at one thing. 

Vunipola’s carrying.
Moriarty’s physicality.
Warbuton’s jackling.
Lawes’ big (late) hits. 

Navidi I’d say goes a little bit under the radar because he’s just so good at lots of parts of the game - never goes back in a tackle, can steal a few jackle pens, offloads well, carries reliably etc.

I’d say Tipuric is underrated for the same reason - is incredible at so many aspects of the game but is primarily known for his slick handling, so people think his physicality isn’t as good as others.

When picking a lions team pundits tend to think “who is the best 6?” and think about the ‘stereotypical’ blindside, so basically say “who’s the strongest, most aggressive tackler and carrier?” 

And certainly Navidi isn’t the best tackler or carrier, but when you add up all the other bits he’s a serious serious player.

Good observation and I agree. The pundits tend to go for the obvious rather than the more nuanced or subtle. Ill give one example, allan bateman, he was very good at everything, but scott gibbs got the headlines for his crash bang wallop style of play on the 97 lions and in fairness did it very well. But bateman was a vastly better all round player. Dafydd james is probably in a similar boat, not quite the fastest, big but not quite the biggest, but overall one heck of a player.


Good points.

I think I'm right in saying that at one time, Dafydd James led the overall try-scoring stats for the Heineken cup (as it was called then)?
“You cannot reason a man out of what he never reasoned himself into.” (Jonathan Swift)
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Joined: 07 April 2013
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Points: 3825 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mogwen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 March 2021 at 6:33pm
Originally posted by scarletnut scarletnut wrote:

Originally posted by dyniol53 dyniol53 wrote:

Originally posted by dr_martinov dr_martinov wrote:

All round workrate, tackling, breakdown, shows heads up skills as well. Having him on the pitch makes players around him a lot better.


I think that’s the point I’m trying to get across. It’s really hard to tell who these players are unless you’re playing on the pitch with them. But they exist in every winning team, the guys that seem to make everyone around them 5% better.
Yeah and it’s no coincidence Wales’ return to form has coincided with the return of Navidi


I think you can add Ken to that theory too
The only true wisdom is in knowing you know nothing.
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Originally posted by aber-fan aber-fan wrote:

Originally posted by roy munster roy munster wrote:

Originally posted by dyniol53 dyniol53 wrote:

I find that fans, punters, pundits tend to have a bias towards players who are really really good at one thing. 

Vunipola’s carrying.
Moriarty’s physicality.
Warbuton’s jackling.
Lawes’ big (late) hits. 

Navidi I’d say goes a little bit under the radar because he’s just so good at lots of parts of the game - never goes back in a tackle, can steal a few jackle pens, offloads well, carries reliably etc.

I’d say Tipuric is underrated for the same reason - is incredible at so many aspects of the game but is primarily known for his slick handling, so people think his physicality isn’t as good as others.

When picking a lions team pundits tend to think “who is the best 6?” and think about the ‘stereotypical’ blindside, so basically say “who’s the strongest, most aggressive tackler and carrier?” 

And certainly Navidi isn’t the best tackler or carrier, but when you add up all the other bits he’s a serious serious player.

Good observation and I agree. The pundits tend to go for the obvious rather than the more nuanced or subtle. Ill give one example, allan bateman, he was very good at everything, but scott gibbs got the headlines for his crash bang wallop style of play on the 97 lions and in fairness did it very well. But bateman was a vastly better all round player. Dafydd james is probably in a similar boat, not quite the fastest, big but not quite the biggest, but overall one heck of a player.


Good points.

I think I'm right in saying that at one time, Dafydd James led the overall try-scoring stats for the Heineken cup (as it was called then)?
ashton has it now i’m sure
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Points: 10085 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ap sior Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 March 2021 at 7:29pm
Dafydd James well up the list.

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Points: 14352 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roy munster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 March 2021 at 12:52am
Quite a list that, chris wyatt quite high up there with 14 tries, quinnell and cawdor with 11 each and the late mathew j watkins with 11....Class players
ROYMOND MUNTER MBE (FOR SERVICES TO THE COMBOVER)
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Points: 12267 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dr_martinov Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 March 2021 at 9:08am
Originally posted by roy munster roy munster wrote:

Quite a list that, chris wyatt quite high up there with 14 tries, quinnell and cawdor with 11 each and the late mathew j watkins with 11....Class players

Am spotting when the forwards appear. Neil Back and Sean Cronin both on 16. Course they had the advantage of playing a lot more HC games due to the success of their teams but still that's quite impressive.
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