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Kicking the ball in someone's hands
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aber-fan View Drop Down
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    Posted: 24 September 2009 at 2:05pm
Hi there -

Not sure if this has been asked before - if so just point it out to me.

In our narrow defeat to Munster, we had a ruck centre field about 10 yards from their line. We won the ball and Roberts picked it up (it was clearly in his hands, and he was standing up - the ball was about waist high). A Munster boot came over the ruck and kicked the ball from his hands.

Two Qs (maybe 3):

1. Is this OK or should we have had a (winning) penalty?

2. If it IS OK - what if I am a small back, and some huge guy runs at me with the ball in front of him in both hands? Can I take a fly kick to dislodge it, rather than make a tackle?

3. If you say 1 is OK and 2 is not - what's the difference?

Thanks!
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There is NO law regarding kicking a ball out of the players hand (or reference to it) in the IRB Law Book.

However. I & nearly every other referee deem it to be "Negative" Rugby, & the ethos is to reward positive Rugby.
 
  1. When the ball was in Martyns hands, technically the ball was out, so the ball was free to be played, the question of how the Munster player came to be in a position to be able to kick the ball from his hands is another point. Did he come through the ruck ? Did he come from the side ? Did he come atfter MR had both hands on the ball. All these are subject to the officials seeing what happened & reacting on it but as I say echnically there w no offence as there is NO direct law.
  2. If "Little Pretty Boy" kicked the ball out of "Big Back Rower's" hands instead of tackling, would normally result in a "Dangerous Play" penalty against the "pretty Boy" Unless by some miracle he managed to do it without showing his studs towards the oncoming forward, or without following through catching the Forward with a permanent Birth Contl solution !
Hope this helps
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Originally posted by scarletman scarletman wrote:

There is NO law regarding kicking a ball out of the players hand (or reference to it) in the IRB Law Book.

However. I & nearly every other referee deem it to be "Negative" Rugby, & the ethos is to reward positive Rugby.
 
  1. When the ball was in Martyns hands, technically the ball was out, so the ball was free to be played, the question of how the Munster player came to be in a position to be able to kick the ball from his hands is another point. Did he come through the ruck ? Did he come from the side ? Did he come atfter MR had both hands on the ball. All these are subject to the officials seeing what happened & reacting on it but as I say echnically there w no offence as there is NO direct law.
  2. If "Little Pretty Boy" kicked the ball out of "Big Back Rower's" hands instead of tackling, would normally result in a "Dangerous Play" penalty against the "pretty Boy" Unless by some miracle he managed to do it without showing his studs towards the oncoming forward, or without following through catching the Forward with a permanent Birth Contl solution !
Hope this helps
 
2a
 
"Little Pretty Boy" will get a hiding from the other teams other "Big Back Rower's" unless his get there 1st and he will never try it again.
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Points: 12302 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scarletman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 September 2009 at 9:33am
Originally posted by wizard wizard wrote:

Originally posted by scarletman scarletman wrote:

There is NO law regarding kicking a ball out of the players hand (or reference to it) in the IRB Law Book.

However. I & nearly every other referee deem it to be "Negative" Rugby, & the ethos is to reward positive Rugby.
 
  1. When the ball was in Martyns hands, technically the ball was out, so the ball was free to be played, the question of how the Munster player came to be in a position to be able to kick the ball from his hands is another point. Did he come through the ruck ? Did he come from the side ? Did he come atfter MR had both hands on the ball. All these are subject to the officials seeing what happened & reacting on it but as I say echnically there w no offence as there is NO direct law.
  2. If "Little Pretty Boy" kicked the ball out of "Big Back Rower's" hands instead of tackling, would normally result in a "Dangerous Play" penalty against the "pretty Boy" Unless by some miracle he managed to do it without showing his studs towards the oncoming forward, or without following through catching the Forward with a permanent Birth Contl solution !
Hope this helps
 
2a
 
"Little Pretty Boy" will get a hiding from the other teams other "Big Back Rower's" unless his get there 1st and he will never try it again.
Says a "Pretty Boy" !!! LOL Experienced ????? Confused Nice one W !! Clap
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Points: 6740 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wizard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 September 2009 at 11:03pm
Originally posted by scarletman scarletman wrote:

Originally posted by wizard wizard wrote:

Originally posted by scarletman scarletman wrote:

There is NO law regarding kicking a ball out of the players hand (or reference to it) in the IRB Law Book.

However. I & nearly every other referee deem it to be "Negative" Rugby, & the ethos is to reward positive Rugby.
 
  1. When the ball was in Martyns hands, technically the ball was out, so the ball was free to be played, the question of how the Munster player came to be in a position to be able to kick the ball from his hands is another point. Did he come through the ruck ? Did he come from the side ? Did he come atfter MR had both hands on the ball. All these are subject to the officials seeing what happened & reacting on it but as I say echnically there w no offence as there is NO direct law.
  2. If "Little Pretty Boy" kicked the ball out of "Big Back Rower's" hands instead of tackling, would normally result in a "Dangerous Play" penalty against the "pretty Boy" Unless by some miracle he managed to do it without showing his studs towards the oncoming forward, or without following through catching the Forward with a permanent Birth Contl solution !
Hope this helps
 
2a
 
"Little Pretty Boy" will get a hiding from the other teams other "Big Back Rower's" unless his get there 1st and he will never try it again.
Says a "Pretty Boy" !!! LOL Experienced ????? Confused Nice one W !! Clap
 
Not Fully.
 
Never tried the kick out of someones hands.
 
Took an no.8 out with an elbow, when I went after it and up in the air from our restart.
 
Next restart, replacement 8 and 2 flankers took me out big time in the air.
 
Big fight happened then (I was crawling away at the time. lol )
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Points: 12302 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scarletman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 September 2009 at 6:31am
Ha Ha ..... Just deserts & all that ....
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Points: 20259 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aber-fan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 October 2009 at 12:52pm
OK guys - thanks for the clarification. I guess if someone is skilful enough to kick a ball out of a player's hands without it being dangerous, then that's OK. (I remember many moons ago, George Best flicked  a ball away from a goalie and put it in the net, only for the 'goal' to be disallowed - even though in that case the goalie had dropped the ball towards his foot, intending to clear it upfield! - so not dangerous, even by football standards.)

Pity this move is not banned, as it is pretty negative - and can be dangerous, as Peely found when Grewcock (I think) kicked him in the face a few seasons ago, in Wales v England. You may recall that Alfie was also yellow carded for 'remonstrationg' with the England forward!
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