Kicking the ball out of a player's hands

This is a common occurrence in matches - especially at the back of a scrum (no. 9 attempts to kick the ball out of the hands of the opposing 9 as he picks up) or at ruck time.

One of the S4C commentators said during the Scarlets' match that this was always illegal (or words to that effect). And FWIW, I wish it was - but I'm not sure.

Is it always illegal? (Lots of players seem to get away with it, in that case.)

Or is it only illegal if contact is made and the play is deemed either 'careless' or 'dangerous'?

(I seem to remember in an international a few seasons ago, a Welsh 9 - Duane, I think -  being kicked right in the face at a ruck only a yard from the opposing line - and I'm not convinced that player was even binned. So either we're going soft, or that was a terrible decision by the ref!)


Edited by aber-fan - 04 March 2014 at 2:04pm

KID A wrote: aber-fan wrote: (I seem to remember in an international a few seasons ago, a Welsh 9 - Duane, I think -  being kicked right in the face at a ruck only a yard from the opposing line - and I'm not convinced that player was even binned. So either we're going soft, or that was a terrible decision by the ref!) That was Grewcock on Dwayne. And I don't think it was even penalsied. Pretty sure Dwayne needed stitches in the forehead.

That's the way I remember it, too - thought it was an English thug, but forgot which one.

Just the thing to get our blood up for the weekend!

This is an awkward one, as far as I can remember, there is no written law on "kicking the ball out of an opponents hand" . However it IS considered to be Dangerous Play.

Incidentally, The incident concerned was a Ruck, Josh was NOT bound with at least one arm therefore he had no right to play the ball legally or otherwise !

aber-fan wrote: This is a common occurrence in matches - especially at the back of a scrum (no. 9 attempts to kick the ball out of the hands of the opposing 9 as he picks up) or at ruck time. One of the S4C commentators said during the Scarlets' match that this was always illegal (or words to that effect). And FWIW, I wish it was - but I'm not sure. Is it always illegal? (Lots of players seem to get away with it, in that case.) Or is it only illegal if contact is made and the play is deemed either 'careless' or 'dangerous'? (I seem to remember in an international a few seasons ago, a Welsh 9 - Duane, I think -  being kicked right in the face at a ruck only a yard from the opposing line - and I'm not convinced that player was even binned. So either we're going soft, or that was a terrible decision by the ref!)

I just think it is disgusting!

scarletman wrote: So hooking your arm/hand around the ball to strip it backwards should be illegal ? That'd remove a massive section of Foxy & Scotty's match skills !

I said knocking. Not stripping.

If a player knocks the ball out of the hand of a player with no intention of trying to gain posession it should be illegal.

KID A wrote: I said knocking. Not stripping.

RR1972 wrote: KID A wrote: scarletman wrote: So hooking your arm/hand around the ball to strip it backwards should be illegal ? That'd remove a massive section of Foxy & Scotty's match skills ! I said knocking. Not stripping. If a player knocks the ball out of the hand of a player with no intention of trying to gain posession it should be illegal. I'd agree with you that's a deliberate knock on

It's only a knock on if the ball is "propelled forward from the hand" ... if the ball is propelled towards the players own goal line, the whatever happens to it afterwards it can't be deemed to have been knocked on.

scarletman wrote: This is an awkward one, as far as I can remember, there is no written law on "kicking the ball out of an opponents hand" . However it IS considered to be Dangerous Play. Incidentally, The incident concerned was a Ruck, Josh was NOT bound with at least one arm therefore he had no right to play the ball legally or otherwise !

It certainly seems to happen quite often - especially at the back of disrupted scrums.

Are you saying it is ALWAYS considered dangerous play, or only in curcumstances where there is some contact (which would be fair enough)? Players seem to get away with it quite often - is that because the refs miss it, or don't consider it dangerous in all cases?

It's not something I like to see, and would be happy to see it clearly banned in the laws.

Thanks to all of you for your thoughts and opinions, BTW.