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GPR - Rochester View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 July 2021 at 2:56pm
Originally posted by dyniol53 dyniol53 wrote:

Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

I don't share the clamour for Liam as I don't think Hogg did anything wrong. I would shake up the centres with either Aki or Harris replacing Daly.

I think, as the commenter above said, it’s more likely Liam could come on the wing. If the strategy is “play less rugby and kick it more”, you’re better off having the best high ball catcher in the N.Hemisphere chasing the kicks.

I take your point in which case I would select Adams ahead of Liam. Liam is an accident waiting to happen with regard to penalties so for me that counts against him. Adams competes well in the air both offensively & defensively and nobody betters him for scoring when he should.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aber-fan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 July 2021 at 3:00pm
Originally posted by Dai38 Dai38 wrote:

The problem with selection is that there are so many players playing well, and there's not much between them, it is only a problem for the selection panel though, and we all have our own theories, and in all honesty we are all right. It is down to how we will play next week, and the best players to carry out the plan, which is not always the form players.

Gatland is excellent on how to manage a game, the opposition and maybe how to get into their heads.



Fair comment.

I do think Gats won't want the players to give any stupid penalties away next time, though - which may mean the exit door for Curry and Daly... and Watson. It may depend on whether he trusts them to not do it again...
“You cannot reason a man out of what he never reasoned himself into.” (Jonathan Swift)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aber-fan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 July 2021 at 3:05pm
Originally posted by dyniol53 dyniol53 wrote:

The thing about it being such a close game where the Lions won I think papers over some cracks - you can say “we played well and won” but for 70% of the game the Boks dominated. Why was that?

If Kolbe hadn’t reached for that Basketball knock on and the SA score had stood, with Eliot Daly given a yellow, what would everyone be saying re-changes? They’d be saying Gatland got a lot wrong and the players weren’t right.

I’m not taking away from the Lions - they won - but the actual contest for 80mins is overshadowed by the result (understandably) but there were lots of battles the lions lost for large parts of the game which the coaches need to identify. Was it tactics or personel?

The stats don't bear that out - the Lions had the edge in all the stats, based on their second half dominance - see https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/57955588

The margins were incredibly tight, though - if this or that ball had gone back and not forward, SA would have won. That's how close it was.

What is encouraging for the Lions is that they came on stronger, the longer the game lasted - which is why, IMHO, it is crucial to avoid giving away soft and stupid penalties early on, as Curry and Daly did.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 July 2021 at 3:37pm
The Springbok players are quite understandably undercooked. Of course most of them based in Europe & Japan have played plenty of rugby this year. Those based in South Africa are much shorter of playing time. The step up in intensity & pace will catch them out for sure so for them to get so close in the first test is a big achievement. Gatland will understand this and will realise that the Lions got pretty lucky & must improve  a lot particularly their discipline.

It appears that Wyn is not going to be ready so that is a blow as Sutherland looked in trouble in that first half. I would not be surprised if the Boks go for him next Saturday & start Malherbe at 3. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dyniol53 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 July 2021 at 3:47pm
Originally posted by aber-fan aber-fan wrote:

Originally posted by dyniol53 dyniol53 wrote:

The thing about it being such a close game where the Lions won I think papers over some cracks - you can say “we played well and won” but for 70% of the game the Boks dominated. Why was that?

The stats don't bear that out - the Lions had the edge in all the stats, based on their second half dominance - see https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/57955588

The margins were incredibly tight, though - if this or that ball had gone back and not forward, SA would have won. That's how close it was.

What is encouraging for the Lions is that they came on stronger, the longer the game lasted - which is why, IMHO, it is crucial to avoid giving away soft and stupid penalties early on, as Curry and Daly did.

Yeah I saw those stats - I’d have liked to know what they were at 60 mins, when the Lions first took the lead. 

The broader point is there is room for improvement for the Lions and a 5pt win might paper over that. After all SA A beat the Lions by 4pts (different Lions team selection obvs)

You’re absolutely right about penos - that’s the game vs SA. In the rugby World Cup SF, Lowe gets a turnover on AWJ, SA kick and get a penalty from the lineout, kick the points and then Wales are out. Basically one mistake won the game. 

The question re-Curry and Daly is whether Gatland thinks they are liabilities or the sort of players who learn from their mistakes. For example Itoje always feels like a penalty waiting to happen but on sat came up the right side of the law and was justifiably one of the best on the pitch. 

At the end of the day whether it’s Curry, Navidi or Watson I don’t think any is any weaker than the others.

If they pick Harris or Aki over Daly it’s likely a change of tactics, probs not a reflection on Daly.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scarletnut Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 July 2021 at 4:14pm
Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Originally posted by dyniol53 dyniol53 wrote:

Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

I don't share the clamour for Liam as I don't think Hogg did anything wrong. I would shake up the centres with either Aki or Harris replacing Daly.

I think, as the commenter above said, it’s more likely Liam could come on the wing. If the strategy is “play less rugby and kick it more”, you’re better off having the best high ball catcher in the N.Hemisphere chasing the kicks.

I take your point in which case I would select Adams ahead of Liam. Liam is an accident waiting to happen with regard to penalties so for me that counts against him. Adams competes well in the air both offensively & defensively and nobody betters him for scoring when he should.
But Liam is the best back three player under the high ball. Hogg spilled a few on Saturday so you’d expect the Boks to really target him on Saturday 
I still wake up late at night and think of what might have been when tim stimpson hit that jammy penalty1
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roy munster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 July 2021 at 4:34pm
In the threequarters...sanjay wouldnt make my 23 atm, despite his many talents, not at 15 and definitely not on the wing ahead of adams, he simply hasnt played enough rugby..theres also the fact he often gives some daft penalties away,adams should start surely hes on fire,hogg deserves to keep the 15 shirt...vdm or watson tough call, vdm probably had a better game.....13 is a weakness still I think gats will tinker , henshaw to 13 , aki to 12 , farrell to 10 if biggar out



ROYMOND MUNTER MBE (FOR SERVICES TO THE COMBOVER)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scarletnut Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 July 2021 at 4:50pm
Originally posted by roy munster roy munster wrote:

In the threequarters...sanjay wouldnt make my 23 atm, despite his many talents, not at 15 and definitely not on the wing ahead of adams, he simply hasnt played enough rugby..theres also the fact he often gives some daft penalties away,adams should start surely hes on fire,hogg deserves to keep the 15 shirt...vdm or watson tough call, vdm probably had a better game.....13 is a weakness still I think gats will tinker , henshaw to 13 , aki to 12 , farrell to 10 if biggar out



Hogg was weak under the high ball on Saturday and was caught out of position a few times. An on song Springboks side, which they probably will be this weekend, will exploit that.
I still wake up late at night and think of what might have been when tim stimpson hit that jammy penalty1
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wil Chips Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 July 2021 at 5:26pm
It was obvious from the first minute that the Lions were going to kick high and target the SA wingers. They avoided kicking long to any of the back 3, with good reasons of course.

SA really missed Vermeulen in the back field I thought, both from a positioning and also catching viewpoint...Kwagge Smith was caught a few times in no man's land, and spilled a couple.

The SA commentators picked out two key stats, one was a direct result of the Lions tactics, the other is for SA to figure out..

-8 consecutive negative outcomes for SA from Lions kicks in the first 15 mins of the 2nd half. ( A Lions tactic in full effect).

-SA only managed to go for 5 phases or more in the 80th minute ( problem for SA coaching)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SA14 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 July 2021 at 5:55pm
People usually complain commentators are biased toward the other team, they’re bias toward the team you support and still complaints. Confused
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wil Chips Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 July 2021 at 6:13pm
What are your addressing here?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote reesytheexile Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 July 2021 at 6:25pm
Originally posted by SA14 SA14 wrote:

People usually complain commentators are biased toward the other team, they’re bias toward the team you support and still complaints. Confused
Your right !  It’s probably the bias shown by the English pundits towards English players that’s annoying some  😉😂

Edited by reesytheexile - 26 July 2021 at 6:32pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RR1972 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 July 2021 at 7:50pm
Originally posted by scarletnut scarletnut wrote:

Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Originally posted by dyniol53 dyniol53 wrote:

Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

I don't share the clamour for Liam as I don't think Hogg did anything wrong. I would shake up the centres with either Aki or Harris replacing Daly.

I think, as the commenter above said, it’s more likely Liam could come on the wing. If the strategy is “play less rugby and kick it more”, you’re better off having the best high ball catcher in the N.Hemisphere chasing the kicks.

I take your point in which case I would select Adams ahead of Liam. Liam is an accident waiting to happen with regard to penalties so for me that counts against him. Adams competes well in the air both offensively & defensively and nobody betters him for scoring when he should.
But Liam is the best back three player under the high ball. Hogg spilled a few on Saturday so you’d expect the Boks to really target him on Saturday 
id play watson 15 adams wing tbh both adams and watson are good under high ball and in better form
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gate12 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 July 2021 at 8:30am
I've got sympathy for any outside backs with Biggar 10, he's not a threat and defences can just shift out to 12 and 13, problem is that Farrell isn't showing any form either and Russell and Smith would be big gambles. If the Lions are going to play a similar way might as well bring Aki and Sanjay into the backline.

Conan carried more and further than any Lions player and the rest of the pack went pretty well too so the only change I'd make up front would be Jamie George to start (with Ken staying on the bench).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 July 2021 at 10:05am
OK 3 changes - Conor Murray starts Price to bench, Harris starts Daly to bench, Mako starts Sutherland to bench & Faletau replaces Watson on bench. No places for Liam or Adams. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KID A Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 July 2021 at 10:46am
I really don't see what Hogg does to merit a place. He was abysmal in the 1st test and nearly cost the game. He's an O'Gara situation #2 in the making. Panics in his own half and makes howlers. I'd have Watson 15.

And Harris at 13 just shows the lack of quality centres in the game.
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