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Dai38 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dai38 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 August 2021 at 12:59pm
I have always thought that Gatland while being an excellent coach, has failed to develop himself & indeed teams he coached, because of his conservative attitude. His record in NZ is not good, while his temporary replacement was better, but we'll never know how much Gatland influenced that from his 1st season.

Personally I feel his future should lie in "consultancy" work, basically going in putting basics in place and for the teams coaching staff. He is 57, which is quite old now in top coaches.

If anything the Lions tour has shown him as one who failed to adapt to the huge SA team, our best bet was Russell running the show from the start, but that was not going to happen. I will always thank him for getting Wales competitive, while also thinking we could have moved on. 
Be careful when you pick up the stick.........IT MAY BE THE WRONG END!!!!!!!!!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dyniol53 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 August 2021 at 1:04pm
Originally posted by Dai38 Dai38 wrote:

I will always thank him for getting Wales competitive, while also thinking we could have moved on. 

Yep, he has left some wiggle room for Pivac and Stevo to aim for.

Play a more attractive style of rugby (I.e. score more tries)
Compete and beat the SH big three more consistently.
Reach a WC final. 

If they achieve 2 of those three, but don’t necessarily win any grand slams or 6N titles, I think they’ll be deemed a success.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aber-fan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 August 2021 at 1:52pm
Originally posted by SA14 SA14 wrote:

Originally posted by aber-fan aber-fan wrote:

Originally posted by SA14 SA14 wrote:

All this criticism of Gatland. If they’d won that game the headlines would be of Gatland being the greatest coach of all time. Fine margins. 

For once, I agree with you.

Gatland's record speaks for itself. This time, he definitely made some selection errors, but at the end there was very little in it.

How many times have we seen it over the years. The infamous Pivac out cries on here turned into mr perfect. Then we started losing and it was Pivac out again. The life of a rugby coach. South Africa’s tactics were obvious. Slow the game down with ‘injuries’ I can more or less guarantee if we’d won the series he wouldn’t get half as much criticism. 

If the refs had been stricter on 'injuries' (though TBF many appeared genuine) and certainly on 'water breaks', it might have made a difference. 

Lions didn't help themselves by picking the static Murray for the second test, when they needed to keep things fast.

So - some self-inflicted problems and some not. Could have gone either way, especially if Wyn Jones had not been taken out - shades of what was done to Adam Jones in 2009.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aber-fan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 August 2021 at 2:02pm
Originally posted by John John wrote:

Originally posted by SA14 SA14 wrote:

Originally posted by Wil Chips Wil Chips wrote:

Not just slow the game down, but allow on field coaching at each of those injuries. Poor.

Not forgetting the physio within yards of the team shouting support. 

It’ll be criminal if people class Gatland as a poor coach if they base it on this Lions tour. 

They were within minutes of drawing the series. 

He's  not a poor coach, he is a really good coach or at least he has been a really good coach. But the final quarter of that game was so similar to the final quarter of our WC semi. Some of the players were the same but actually not many in the closing stages but there was a reluctance to go out and win the game, a fear of being responsible for losing that resulted in losing. That's a coaching issue because it was a team mindset. And that is a flaw in Gatland's current and recent coaching cv. Coupled with a disastrous domestic season in NZ last year and  his record is a bit tarnished.

I think that's overstating things - indeed, it's possible to argue things another way around, and say that if the Lions had kicked for goal most of the time - instead of several times going to the corner, and only scoring one try - they'd have won the game.

And at the end, the mainly England pack contrived to get penalised twice at attacking scrums...
“You cannot reason a man out of what he never reasoned himself into.” (Jonathan Swift)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scarletnut Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 August 2021 at 3:52pm
Originally posted by dyniol53 dyniol53 wrote:

Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Also I believe Scott Robertson must be the next cab off the rank in NZ so I don't see Gats waiting around in Waikato. 

I would be surprised if England aren’t sizing Robertson up post-2023

They do like to keep the coach English if they can, but not sure Rob Baxter, Steve Borthwick or Andy Farrell would want it
Robertson will probably be All Blacks coach by then 
I still wake up late at night and think of what might have been when tim stimpson hit that jammy penalty1
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Eastern outpost Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 August 2021 at 6:14pm
Originally posted by scarletnut scarletnut wrote:

Originally posted by dyniol53 dyniol53 wrote:

Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Also I believe Scott Robertson must be the next cab off the rank in NZ so I don't see Gats waiting around in Waikato. 

I would be surprised if England aren’t sizing Robertson up post-2023

They do like to keep the coach English if they can, but not sure Rob Baxter, Steve Borthwick or Andy Farrell would want it
Robertson will probably be All Blacks coach by then 
If he is, how many of the assistant coaches will be looking for jobs in your opinion?

It’s out of interest, not a hark back to Brad’s tenure. It’s more of a whether playing the short or long game works out best in the end. Act in haste and repent at leisure kind of comparison.


Edited by Eastern outpost - 10 August 2021 at 6:16pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SA14 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 August 2021 at 10:14pm
I’m not sure what tactics Gatland could have used to counteract South Africa’s slowing of the game down and using their coach as water boy as well as his hour long rant to influence refs in the tests. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 August 2021 at 7:18am
Originally posted by SA14 SA14 wrote:

I’m not sure what tactics Gatland could have used to counteract South Africa’s slowing of the game down and using their coach as water boy as well as his hour long rant to influence refs in the tests. 

He could for one have instructed his team to raise their tempo at lineout time and suggested that his 9 sometimes took a quick penalty. Neither of these options were pursued. I am afraid Gats thought he could out Bok the Boks because they had not had gametime - he was wrong. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SA14 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 August 2021 at 2:03pm
Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Originally posted by SA14 SA14 wrote:

I’m not sure what tactics Gatland could have used to counteract South Africa’s slowing of the game down and using their coach as water boy as well as his hour long rant to influence refs in the tests. 

He could for one have instructed his team to raise their tempo at lineout time and suggested that his 9 sometimes took a quick penalty. Neither of these options were pursued. I am afraid Gats thought he could out Bok the Boks because they had not had gametime - he was wrong. 

 Both of which could still be nullified. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 August 2021 at 3:07pm
Originally posted by SA14 SA14 wrote:

Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Originally posted by SA14 SA14 wrote:

I’m not sure what tactics Gatland could have used to counteract South Africa’s slowing of the game down and using their coach as water boy as well as his hour long rant to influence refs in the tests. 

He could for one have instructed his team to raise their tempo at lineout time and suggested that his 9 sometimes took a quick penalty. Neither of these options were pursued. I am afraid Gats thought he could out Bok the Boks because they had not had gametime - he was wrong. 

 Both of which could still be nullified. 

If the Boks were continually late arriving for a Lions throw then the ref would have something to say. As for nullifying a 9 taking a quick tap then that would surely result in a penalty if, as I assume you mean, you impede him before he had gone 10 metres otherwise if he had made 10 easy metres the tempo would have been raised and they would have made the easiest 10 metres of the game. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bills burr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 August 2021 at 4:00pm
awj is getting emotional about not being allowed to get emotional by erm nobody
another classic western snail//bbc sport non story
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RR1972 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 August 2021 at 4:51pm
If curry and liam hadn’t made two really basic errors gatland goes down as the most succesful lions coach of all time. Small margins !!

Edited by RR1972 - 11 August 2021 at 4:52pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SA14 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 August 2021 at 5:33pm
Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

If curry and liam hadn’t made two really basic errors gatland goes down as the most succesful lions coach of all time. Small margins !!

Exactly. Australia 2013. Picked Foxy before BOD in the final decider. Stroke of genius. If they’d lost people would still be going on about what a big mistake it was not picking BOD. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dyniol53 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 August 2021 at 5:45pm
Both absolutely true comments
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bills burr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 August 2021 at 10:31pm
Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

If curry and liam hadn’t made two really basic errors gatland goes down as the most succesful lions coach of all time. Small margins !!

who picked them?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scarletnut Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 August 2021 at 11:51pm
Originally posted by bills burr bills burr wrote:

Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

If curry and liam hadn’t made two really basic errors gatland goes down as the most succesful lions coach of all time. Small margins !!

who picked them?
Oh come off it. He can’t control every players actions on the field. Both players are the best in their respective positions in Britain and Ireland. 
I still wake up late at night and think of what might have been when tim stimpson hit that jammy penalty1
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