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Lions dinosaurs call for the end of tactical subs

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salmidach View Drop Down
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    Posted: 14 August 2021 at 8:31pm
4 Lions dinosaurs who have never played PROFESSIONAL rugby have written to World rugby asking them to ban tactical substitutions.

Their reasoning. Players nowadays are conditioned to only play 60 minutes of rugby....

What a load of tosh....

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/58213246
They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it's not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance - Terry Pratchett
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scarletnut Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 August 2021 at 8:33pm
Originally posted by salmidach salmidach wrote:

4 Lions dinosaurs who have never played PROFESSIONAL rugby have written to World rugby asking them to ban tactical substitutions.

Their reasoning. Players nowadays are conditioned to only play 60 minutes of rugby....

What a load of tosh....

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/58213246
You say it’s the dinosaur view but some of the best S&C specialists in world rugby are also calling for this change 
I still wake up late at night and think of what might have been when tim stimpson hit that jammy penalty1
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dyniol53 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 August 2021 at 8:35pm
I kind of agree with the premise. As a sport rugby is more enjoyable for players and spectators if you get 15v15 as opposed to 23 vs 23.

But I can’t really see how “only sub for injuries” gets policed fairly, without incentivising another bloodgate or players feigning injury

Maybe they should make the subs do tiring exercise BEFORE they‘re allowed on the pitch lol


Edited by dyniol53 - 14 August 2021 at 8:37pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote salmidach Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 August 2021 at 8:35pm
Originally posted by scarletnut scarletnut wrote:

Originally posted by salmidach salmidach wrote:

4 Lions dinosaurs who have never played PROFESSIONAL rugby have written to World rugby asking them to ban tactical substitutions.

Their reasoning. Players nowadays are conditioned to only play 60 minutes of rugby....

What a load of tosh....

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/58213246
You say it’s the dinosaur view but some of the best S&C specialists in world rugby are also calling for this change 

I'm sorry but it's a load of crap. so they think that props playing 80 minutes of rugby with all the pressure on their necks is acceptable.

Players today are more conditioned than ever. what they are trying to do is remove the hit. that's all this is about.
They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it's not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance - Terry Pratchett
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dyniol53 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 August 2021 at 8:39pm
Originally posted by salmidach salmidach wrote:

Originally posted by scarletnut scarletnut wrote:

Originally posted by salmidach salmidach wrote:

4 Lions dinosaurs who have never played PROFESSIONAL rugby have written to World rugby asking them to ban tactical substitutions.

Their reasoning. Players nowadays are conditioned to only play 60 minutes of rugby....

What a load of tosh....

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/58213246
You say it’s the dinosaur view but some of the best S&C specialists in world rugby are also calling for this change 

I'm sorry but it's a load of crap. so they think that props playing 80 minutes of rugby with all the pressure on their necks is acceptable.

Players today are more conditioned than ever. what they are trying to do is remove the hit. that's all this is about.

Props don’t get hauled off cause their necks hurt though do they? More often than not they’re hauled off because they’re only conditioned for 60mins tops. 

It would be good to have props playing 80mins because then you’d have chance to exploit the space around them as they get more fatigued 
https://twitter.com/exile_podcast?lang=en
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dyniol53 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 August 2021 at 8:57pm
Originally posted by dyniol53 dyniol53 wrote:

Maybe they should make the subs do tiring exercise BEFORE they‘re allowed on the pitch lol

I meant this as a joke but to some extent they could do this with data coming off the on-field players’ GPS. So as the game goes on the off-field sub could have to sit on a bike and give a similar output to the player they’re assigned as sub for before they’re allowed to come on. 

Would be a ridiculous spectacle but if they want to remove the 
situation of a 100% fresh Kyle Sinkler coming on charging at a player who’s been playing 60mins and potentially injuring them 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gate12 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 August 2021 at 10:07pm
I'd just reduce the number of subs, 4 forwards (3 frontrow and 1 back 5) and 2 backs, reduce it to 3 and 2 over time getting frontrow players to cover more than 1 position.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote salmidach Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 August 2021 at 10:36pm
Originally posted by dyniol53 dyniol53 wrote:

Originally posted by salmidach salmidach wrote:

Originally posted by scarletnut scarletnut wrote:

Originally posted by salmidach salmidach wrote:

4 Lions dinosaurs who have never played PROFESSIONAL rugby have written to World rugby asking them to ban tactical substitutions.

Their reasoning. Players nowadays are conditioned to only play 60 minutes of rugby....

What a load of tosh....

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/58213246
You say it’s the dinosaur view but some of the best S&C specialists in world rugby are also calling for this change 

I'm sorry but it's a load of crap. so they think that props playing 80 minutes of rugby with all the pressure on their necks is acceptable.

Players today are more conditioned than ever. what they are trying to do is remove the hit. that's all this is about.

Props don’t get hauled off cause their necks hurt though do they? More often than not they’re hauled off because they’re only conditioned for 60mins tops. 

It would be good to have props playing 80mins because then you’d have chance to exploit the space around them as they get more fatigued 

Incorrect, Pivac likes to play his team without changes at times.

It's about getting the upper hand at scrum time. Now that world rugby is trying to limit the amount of scrums there's no need to replace them is there.
They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it's not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance - Terry Pratchett
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bills burr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 August 2021 at 11:14pm
Something needs to be done thats for sure....The game is just a load of crash bang wallop players grow ever bigger and get replaced after an hour or less by another monster...Theres also the fact the bench comes on fresh against players knackered after an hour. Not sure if this is the answer , even if it did help how youd police it to say for certain a player is or isnt injured is also pretty tricky
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bills burr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 August 2021 at 1:07am
Though none of the normal rules apply to the all blacks who just walloped the wallabies with a performance so sublime it was bordering on some kind of mystical wizardry
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dyniol53 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 August 2021 at 1:13am
Originally posted by bills burr bills burr wrote:

Though none of the normal rules apply to the all blacks who just walloped the wallabies with a performance so sublime it was bordering on some kind of mystical wizardry

They are beautiful to watch. 

Aussies no mugs but made to look so average.

SA v NZ will be a tasty one 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bills burr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 August 2021 at 1:18am
Originally posted by dyniol53 dyniol53 wrote:

Originally posted by bills burr bills burr wrote:

Though none of the normal rules apply to the all blacks who just walloped the wallabies with a performance so sublime it was bordering on some kind of mystical wizardry

They are beautiful to watch. 

Aussies no mugs but made to look so average.

SA v NZ will be a tasty one 

Their lines of running, intelligence, skills, speed of thought and power was awesome...the full back even banged one over from 60 meters too. The boks will to starve them of ball and dominate set pieces to have any hope.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 August 2021 at 7:39am
Originally posted by bills burr bills burr wrote:

Originally posted by dyniol53 dyniol53 wrote:

Originally posted by bills burr bills burr wrote:

Though none of the normal rules apply to the all blacks who just walloped the wallabies with a performance so sublime it was bordering on some kind of mystical wizardry

They are beautiful to watch. 

Aussies no mugs but made to look so average.

SA v NZ will be a tasty one 

Their lines of running, intelligence, skills, speed of thought and power was awesome...the full back even banged one over from 60 meters too. The boks will to starve them of ball and dominate set pieces to have any hope.

Well the Boks have managed to do that on a great number of occasions over the years. The All Blacks are a wonderfully talented group of rugby players that is not in question. The old adage of course is true - you cannot play that way without space & of course the ball. The Boks will be in their faces from minute one competing at scrum, lineout & breakdown as if their lives depended on it. I, for one, would not be putting money either way. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 August 2021 at 7:48am
To call the signatories dinosaurs is pretty disrespectful. The one individual they should really take heed of is Sir Ian. He, unlike the others, has stayed involved in the professional game for many years post playing & has an understanding of the game few can match. 

The idea put forward is not a new one - the players affected are predominantly front 5 forwards who are now, at the top level, somewhere between 120-140kgs of solid muscle. Reducing that mass by 10-15kgs would allow better aerobic performance by individuals and reduce collisions impacts; reducing the number of allowed substitutions would create more space as the game wore on. Not a lot to dislike in that idea from my point of view. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dyniol53 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 August 2021 at 9:39am
Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Not a lot to dislike in that idea from my point of view. 

Yeah I agree with the intent but how would enforcement work? Relying on coaches/players honesty? 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scarletabroad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 August 2021 at 11:19am
I’ve commented many times on this related topic. The easiest way without the need for policing is to allow as many on the bench as you desire but you can only replace one back one forward and initially for safety reasons the front row. The subs can be tactical if you want but you can only have the one back one forward. Any injuries you play minus one. Player size in mass terms will reduce for a more aerobic orientated fitness regime. Space will improve and other skill sets will then have to be polished and improved upon.
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