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Dic Penderyn View Drop Down
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Points: 1977 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dic Penderyn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 February 2021 at 8:30am
Originally posted by ladram ladram wrote:

Originally posted by Dic Penderyn Dic Penderyn wrote:

Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

Can’t say i’m a webb fan, looks past it as a player and doesn’t come across as a good bloke tbh. Tupric is a top player seems a decent guy as well tbh

Webb has not been the same player since his Toulon experience for whatever reason. Tipuric remains one of the best all round rugby players in Europe. His tackle efficiency, work rate and lineout work are outstanding & if we ever get to play the offloading/support style that Pivac wants he will be an ideal link man. His work at the breakdown is not as good as Warburton, who was brilliant, but boy will we miss him when he is gone. He will remain the first back rower on the team sheet for a while.
Tipuric's "work" at the break-down has never been in the same league as our own James Davies,either.Cubby's turn-over prowess was coupled with excellence on the ball,Olympian excellence.In comparison to Tipuric however,Cubby has always been at a disadvantage in one key area:he's never been championed by somebody like Orders,never had the head-lines.Orders and his ilk have given Tipuric a pass when it comes to the break-down:not so Cubby......Who's injured now?
That's slightly unfair as tips has been a part of the ospreys since he burst on the scene whereas cubby couldn't get a look in until pivac arrived and gave him a chance.
I agree,you're right there-but I do think that for a number of years,when he was peer-less week in,week out,Cubby simply did not get the recognition he deserved.Orders and others bear some responsibility there.
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ladram View Drop Down
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Points: 26345 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ladram Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 February 2021 at 8:34am
Originally posted by Dic Penderyn Dic Penderyn wrote:

Originally posted by ladram ladram wrote:

Originally posted by Dic Penderyn Dic Penderyn wrote:

Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

Can’t say i’m a webb fan, looks past it as a player and doesn’t come across as a good bloke tbh. Tupric is a top player seems a decent guy as well tbh

Webb has not been the same player since his Toulon experience for whatever reason. Tipuric remains one of the best all round rugby players in Europe. His tackle efficiency, work rate and lineout work are outstanding & if we ever get to play the offloading/support style that Pivac wants he will be an ideal link man. His work at the breakdown is not as good as Warburton, who was brilliant, but boy will we miss him when he is gone. He will remain the first back rower on the team sheet for a while.
Tipuric's "work" at the break-down has never been in the same league as our own James Davies,either.Cubby's turn-over prowess was coupled with excellence on the ball,Olympian excellence.In comparison to Tipuric however,Cubby has always been at a disadvantage in one key area:he's never been championed by somebody like Orders,never had the head-lines.Orders and his ilk have given Tipuric a pass when it comes to the break-down:not so Cubby......Who's injured now?
That's slightly unfair as tips has been a part of the ospreys since he burst on the scene whereas cubby couldn't get a look in until pivac arrived and gave him a chance.
I agree,you're right there-but I do think that for a number of years,when he was peer-less week in,week out,Cubby simply did not get the recognition he deserved.Orders and others bear some responsibility there.
with the greatest respect i doubt gatland picked his side based around orders's columns
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Dic Penderyn View Drop Down
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Points: 1977 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dic Penderyn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 February 2021 at 8:38am
Originally posted by ladram ladram wrote:

Originally posted by Dic Penderyn Dic Penderyn wrote:

Originally posted by ladram ladram wrote:

Originally posted by Dic Penderyn Dic Penderyn wrote:

Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

Can’t say i’m a webb fan, looks past it as a player and doesn’t come across as a good bloke tbh. Tupric is a top player seems a decent guy as well tbh

Webb has not been the same player since his Toulon experience for whatever reason. Tipuric remains one of the best all round rugby players in Europe. His tackle efficiency, work rate and lineout work are outstanding & if we ever get to play the offloading/support style that Pivac wants he will be an ideal link man. His work at the breakdown is not as good as Warburton, who was brilliant, but boy will we miss him when he is gone. He will remain the first back rower on the team sheet for a while.
Tipuric's "work" at the break-down has never been in the same league as our own James Davies,either.Cubby's turn-over prowess was coupled with excellence on the ball,Olympian excellence.In comparison to Tipuric however,Cubby has always been at a disadvantage in one key area:he's never been championed by somebody like Orders,never had the head-lines.Orders and his ilk have given Tipuric a pass when it comes to the break-down:not so Cubby......Who's injured now?
That's slightly unfair as tips has been a part of the ospreys since he burst on the scene whereas cubby couldn't get a look in until pivac arrived and gave him a chance.
I agree,you're right there-but I do think that for a number of years,when he was peer-less week in,week out,Cubby simply did not get the recognition he deserved.Orders and others bear some responsibility there.
with the greatest respect i doubt gatland picked his side based around orders's columns

Point taken-I'll rein it in.....Wink
 


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RR1972 View Drop Down
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I'm a massive fan of Cubby he was superb for us a few seasons and he is great character, but breakdown aside tupric is better than him at every other facet of play and sadly for cubby  test match rugby was simply too physical for cubby and his body couldn't cope with it.
 
In saying that Warburton was always wales first pick ahead of both of them, he didn't have their all round skills but he was a physical beast and a great captain 
 
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Points: 8115 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fscarlet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 February 2021 at 9:17am
Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

I'm a massive fan of Cubby he was superb for us a few seasons and he is great character, but breakdown aside tupric is better than him at every other facet of play and sadly for cubby  test match rugby was simply too physical for cubby and his body couldn't cope with it.
 
In saying that Warburton was always wales first pick ahead of both of them, he didn't have their all round skills but he was a physical beast and a great captain 
 

For me Warburton was a hybrid of Shingler & Tipuric. 
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Points: 16703 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 February 2021 at 9:32am
Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

I'm a massive fan of Cubby he was superb for us a few seasons and he is great character, but breakdown aside tupric is better than him at every other facet of play and sadly for cubby  test match rugby was simply too physical for cubby and his body couldn't cope with it.
 
In saying that Warburton was always wales first pick ahead of both of them, he didn't have their all round skills but he was a physical beast and a great captain 
 

I cannot agree with you about Cubby not having Tipuric's skills outside of the breakdown. For those two seasons in question Cubby was a complete 7. Both he and Tipuric had the skills to play regional rugby at 13 & Cubby was also a turnover king. Look back at his performances in the Olympics and you will see a rugby player at the very top of his profession. Warburton, for me, was always a 6 at International level and a bloody good 6 at that. Navidi is the guy who comes closest now for me to the Warburton of old. Ellis Jenkins will also contribute if & when he gets back to speed. It appears that he is going to start against Connacht this weekend which is wonderful news for Welsh rugby. 
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Dic Penderyn View Drop Down
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Points: 1977 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dic Penderyn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 February 2021 at 9:41am
Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

I'm a massive fan of Cubby he was superb for us a few seasons and he is great character, but breakdown aside tupric is better than him at every other facet of play and sadly for cubby  test match rugby was simply too physical for cubby and his body couldn't cope with it.
 
In saying that Warburton was always wales first pick ahead of both of them, he didn't have their all round skills but he was a physical beast and a great captain 
 

I don't think Cubby's injury issues can be attributed to international rugby-11 caps?How many starts?We've seen him dominate the break-down against Toulon,Saracens,top European outfits with international standard packs.The effect on his body has been cumulative,I'd have thought.As for other areas of his game,I think people will always have a genuine debate about him and Tipuric.For me-the main man.Best I've ever seen.



Edited by Dic Penderyn - 19 February 2021 at 9:45am
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RR1972 View Drop Down
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Cubby had great skills , good runner handler and a monster at the breakdown. He was superb in the Olympics until the final when the Fijians over powered him (as they did the rest of the uk team)
 
Tupric skills are as good if not better imo, he is a better defender, he is better in the line out and while not as physical as say warburton he was more physical then cubby and was  able to cope better with test match rugby
 
Tupric is likely to be selected for his 3rd lions tour, that says it all to me.
 
Cubby is a top level regional player who could hold his own with any in Europe but aside from that tour to argentina he has struggled with wales , the players are just too big for him.
 
Warburton was another monster at the breakdown and I agree him and tupric should have been played together more often
 
Jenkins another top player if he stays fit and gets back to form hell be back in the welsh team and he could well be the next skipper
 
 


Edited by RR1972 - 19 February 2021 at 9:49am
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Originally posted by Dic Penderyn Dic Penderyn wrote:

Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

I'm a massive fan of Cubby he was superb for us a few seasons and he is great character, but breakdown aside tupric is better than him at every other facet of play and sadly for cubby  test match rugby was simply too physical for cubby and his body couldn't cope with it.
 
In saying that Warburton was always wales first pick ahead of both of them, he didn't have their all round skills but he was a physical beast and a great captain 
 

I don't think Cubby's injury issues can be attributed to international rugby-11 caps?How many starts?We've seen him dominate the break-down against Toulon,Saracens,top European outfits with international standard packs.The effect on his body has been cumulative,I'd have thought.As for other areas of his game,I think people will always have a genuine debate about him and Tipuric.

 
His injuries only seemed to start when he was with team wales, not sure if that is due to the extra intensity at training , the increased level of physicality or as you say just general wear and tear that coincided with his selection for wales
 
 
I really rate cubby I think he has been brilliant for us and he would be close to my all time scarlets xv I just personally think tupric is better.
 
I would class cubby as a lyn jones footballing type 7 but as you correctly point out he was better at the breakdown
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As for Orders he has clearly been "brought onside" by the ospreys which is a pretty clever pr move
 
The likes of Davey and Howell are cheer leaders for the dragons
 
Simon Thomas seems to fawn over the blues to excess
 
Cmon steff get banging that scarlets drum :)
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Dic Penderyn View Drop Down
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Points: 1977 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dic Penderyn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 February 2021 at 10:01am
Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

Originally posted by Dic Penderyn Dic Penderyn wrote:

Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

I'm a massive fan of Cubby he was superb for us a few seasons and he is great character, but breakdown aside tupric is better than him at every other facet of play and sadly for cubby  test match rugby was simply too physical for cubby and his body couldn't cope with it.
 
In saying that Warburton was always wales first pick ahead of both of them, he didn't have their all round skills but he was a physical beast and a great captain 
 

I don't think Cubby's injury issues can be attributed to international rugby-11 caps?How many starts?We've seen him dominate the break-down against Toulon,Saracens,top European outfits with international standard packs.The effect on his body has been cumulative,I'd have thought.As for other areas of his game,I think people will always have a genuine debate about him and Tipuric.

 
His injuries only seemed to start when he was with team wales, not sure if that is due to the extra intensity at training , the increased level of physicality or as you say just general wear and tear that coincided with his selection for wales
 
 
I really rate cubby I think he has been brilliant for us and he would be close to my all time scarlets xv I just personally think tupric is better.
 
I would class cubby as a lyn jones footballing type 7 but as you correctly point out he was better at the breakdown

As I said it's a genuine debate,a great one to have-and I think people will argue the toss over Tipuric and Cubby for years to come-that's a great testament to the ability of both players.One question I'd pose,though-if Cubby is better at the break-down,doesn't that mean he's the stronger,physically more resilient player?
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My favourite Cubby moment(s). Semi final against Leinster, Steff is sent off, Cubby covering wing and flanker! His workrate that day was off the scale, possibly only Tips could have matched that type of performance.
Especially liked his chase of our kicks when on the wing, he terrorised the Leinster defenders, up on them so quickly and add to that the threat of his turnover skills. Loved it. 
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My favourite moment, just because he had an insane season with Beirne, Barclay & Shingler, was in the final when we beat Munster. As the clock ticked towards the red the ball is spilled in midfield & it falls to Cubby. Cue the commentator

"It falls to you know who, James Davies. Go on, score, you deserve it, you absolutely deserve it & so do the Scarlets."
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Originally posted by Fscarlet Fscarlet wrote:

My favourite moment, just because he had an insane season with Beirne, Barclay & Shingler, was in the final when we beat Munster. As the clock ticked towards the red the ball is spilled in midfield & it falls to Cubby. Cue the commentator

"It falls to you know who, James Davies. Go on, score, you deserve it, you absolutely deserve it & so do the Scarlets."

Yes that was a real belter. Can't remember a quality team being so comprehensively dismantled. They knew what was coming but were totally powerless to stop it. At that stage in his career Cubby was as close to being unplayable as any player I have seen since Barry John. 
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Originally posted by Dic Penderyn Dic Penderyn wrote:

Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

Can’t say i’m a webb fan, looks past it as a player and doesn’t come across as a good bloke tbh. Tupric is a top player seems a decent guy as well tbh

Webb has not been the same player since his Toulon experience for whatever reason. Tipuric remains one of the best all round rugby players in Europe. His tackle efficiency, work rate and lineout work are outstanding & if we ever get to play the offloading/support style that Pivac wants he will be an ideal link man. His work at the breakdown is not as good as Warburton, who was brilliant, but boy will we miss him when he is gone. He will remain the first back rower on the team sheet for a while.
Tipuric's "work" at the break-down has never been in the same league as our own James Davies,either.Cubby's turn-over prowess was coupled with excellence on the ball,Olympian excellence.In comparison to Tipuric however,Cubby has always been at a disadvantage in one key area:he's never been championed by somebody like Orders,never had the head-lines.Orders and his ilk have given Tipuric a pass when it comes to the break-down:not so Cubby......Who's injured now?

The number of times the word ‘was’ is used next to Cubby when comparing with Tipuric is the main thing here. Tipuric is a different league. 
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Originally posted by SA14 SA14 wrote:

Originally posted by Dic Penderyn Dic Penderyn wrote:

Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

Can’t say i’m a webb fan, looks past it as a player and doesn’t come across as a good bloke tbh. Tupric is a top player seems a decent guy as well tbh

Webb has not been the same player since his Toulon experience for whatever reason. Tipuric remains one of the best all round rugby players in Europe. His tackle efficiency, work rate and lineout work are outstanding & if we ever get to play the offloading/support style that Pivac wants he will be an ideal link man. His work at the breakdown is not as good as Warburton, who was brilliant, but boy will we miss him when he is gone. He will remain the first back rower on the team sheet for a while.
Tipuric's "work" at the break-down has never been in the same league as our own James Davies,either.Cubby's turn-over prowess was coupled with excellence on the ball,Olympian excellence.In comparison to Tipuric however,Cubby has always been at a disadvantage in one key area:he's never been championed by somebody like Orders,never had the head-lines.Orders and his ilk have given Tipuric a pass when it comes to the break-down:not so Cubby......Who's injured now?

The number of times the word ‘was’ is used next to Cubby when comparing with Tipuric is the main thing here. Tipuric is a different league. 
Agree Tipuric never been as good as cubby at the breakdown
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