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New irb rules re player qualification

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gnasher1975 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gnasher1975 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 November 2021 at 10:39pm
It's a big old gamble stepping down from international rugby for 3 years in the hope of getting a cap for another country.....anything could happen in those 3 years
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NobbySosban Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 November 2021 at 11:46am
Totally understand the rationale behind this move, to enable Pacific Island players to return to represent their country of heritage after being nabbed, capped and often spat out by another country (let's face it, the All Blacks).

But the Law of Unintended Consequences isn't hard to predict here. Every Tier 1 nation will now be revisiting their national links to capped but discarded players to add depth to their squads. There's going to be a merry-go-round of talent before the next world cup and thereafter.

It will allow some players the unexpected opportunity of extending their Test careers, especially when they've been (perhaps harshly) overlooked by a national coach, but it's also going to stifle the emergence of qualified talent. A double-edged sword that may create more issues than it seeks to solve.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mogwen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 November 2021 at 12:14pm
Easiest way to emliminate any further issues regarding this will be for the IRB to use birthright as only way to represent your country. The days of aus and nz poaching talent from a young age from PI countries will come to an end
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RR1972 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 November 2021 at 1:47pm
Originally posted by Mogwen Mogwen wrote:

Easiest way to emliminate any further issues regarding this will be for the IRB to use birthright as only way to represent your country. The days of aus and nz poaching talent from a young age from PI countries will come to an end
bit tough if you move from say germany to wales as a toddler though?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Realwest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 December 2021 at 11:54am
This will depend on the quality of the player let’s say somebody the quality of Ritchie McCaw and they are born and bred in Tonga with 100% Tongan heritage.

Then they get scouted to the Crusaders on their 16th birthday and the become an All Black at 21 then go on to get 150 All Black caps and retire at 35 having won the world player of the year 8 times and 4 World Cups. 

That player then at 38 will be available to play for Tonga I’d say that it’s highly unlikely that player will want to play for Tonga.

Basically this player is amazing and has chosen the All Blacks over Tonga and financially with sponsorship prestige etc has worked out so much better than Tonga ever would have for him.

No let’s look at another player let’s call him the first players twin brother he’s also brought into the Crusaders at 16 and capped by the All Blacks at 21 but somehow he only ever gets 1 All Blacks cap. Then at 24 he plays for Tonga.

Basically this lad had a crack at the All Blacks and wasn’t good enough so went running back to Tonga.

This is a possibility and for me I don’t think it’s right at all how can these players who had the exact upbringing up to the age of 16 but the quality of the players has determined their future.

I’ve said it before that if you are born and bred in a country then that is the country is that you should represent. 

Yes I agree that there may be some caveats to that I.e Talupe Faletau moved to Wales at age 7 and in 2010 got capped by the under 20s

So lived in 

Tonga Birth to 7 years of age
Wales Age 7 to 20 

For me this is acceptable as the player has lived in Wales more than Tonga

However Hadleigh Parkes came to wales at 27 years of age no doubt dreaming of a All Blacks caps then decided that he wasn’t going to get one and came to the Scarlets for the money which I cannot blame him for this, however to become “Welsh” after living for 27 years in New Zealand and 3 years in Wales is not right.

I do not blame the players for this as they have a short career and need to make the best of it. The Irb really needs to sort this out once and for all.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rubrum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 December 2021 at 3:25pm
Another fine mess that we are in, thanks to the lawyers and bean-counters, no doubt.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KID A Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 December 2021 at 3:58pm
Originally posted by Realwest Realwest wrote:

I’ve said it before that if you are born and bred in a country then that is the country is that you should represent. 


Even if you have parents or Grandparents of a different nationality?

What happens if your mother gives birth to you on a Boeing 737 over the Atlantic?

This is 2021.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RR1972 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 December 2021 at 4:00pm
Pitau and folau going to tonga, shingler x 2 eligible for scotland in 2022 as well
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 December 2021 at 4:14pm
Originally posted by KID A KID A wrote:

Originally posted by Realwest Realwest wrote:

I’ve said it before that if you are born and bred in a country then that is the country is that you should represent. 


Even if you have parents or Grandparents of a different nationality?

What happens if your mother gives birth to you on a Boeing 737 over the Atlantic?

This is 2021.

AS Kid A points out it is rarely quite as clear cut as that. We would have missed out on some fantastic players in recent years if that rule was taken that strictly - look no further than Foxy who I believe was born to Welsh parents in the Midlands. I particularly remember Dafydd James because he was born very close to where I worked for a few years in the Copperbelt in Zambia - surely he would have been wasted in the Zambian team!!!!

Both of the above could never be accused of not being Welsh to the core. I fully understand the parents rule, perhaps Grandparents is going a little far. I have a lot of sympathy for the Faletau case and not much for the Hadleigh Parkes, Halaholo & McNichol cases not that they could be accused of not giving their alls in the shirt. 

This new ruling is unashamedly aimed at the Pacific Islanders and I have to applaud that. There will, of course, be unpredicatble consequences such as Alec Lozowski playing for Italy or lord forbid our very own Scott Williams playing for France, Ireland or Scotland against Wales in the 6 nations. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RR1972 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 December 2021 at 4:18pm
Luke hamilton is back eligible for wales Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Legendinmybathroom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 December 2021 at 7:01pm
How is he doing now, I haven’t seen his name being mentioned anywhere for a while.  Where is he plying his trade now.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rob Hunt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 December 2021 at 9:04pm
Graham Price (Egypt) and Clive Rees (Singapore) are two others who would have been ineligible if the country of birth was the only criterion. 
The grandparent rule certainly applies for someone being eligible for a British passport. My father’s brother emigrated to New Zealand and my New Zealand born cousins and his grandchildren would have full residency rights if they decided to come to the U.K. I think that this rule applies internationally. I’ve heard plenty of stories of people with a grandparent born in an EU country applying for that country’s passport following Brexit.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mogwen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 December 2021 at 9:42pm
What about Shannon Fizzell of NZ?(i think thats the spelling) Isnt he Welsh qualified? Has he played for NZ since the world cup??
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RR1972 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 December 2021 at 9:54pm
Originally posted by Rob Hunt Rob Hunt wrote:

Graham Price (Egypt) and Clive Rees (Singapore) are two others who would have been ineligible if the country of birth was the only criterion. 
The grandparent rule certainly applies for someone being eligible for a British passport. My father’s brother emigrated to New Zealand and my New Zealand born cousins and his grandchildren would have full residency rights if they decided to come to the U.K. I think that this rule applies internationally. I’ve heard plenty of stories of people with a grandparent born in an EU country applying for that country’s passport following Brexit.
 wasn’t price born in a military hospital eg britsh soil in the eyes of the lawWink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Realwest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 December 2021 at 10:11pm
I have 4 grandparents and 2 parents that are English and feel that I have no allegiance to England at all I’m born and bred in wales and think that’s the only country I should be available to play for 

Think the fact that people can identify as what they want is a huge part of what’s wrong with the world if I’m honest  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KID A Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 December 2021 at 10:25pm
Originally posted by Realwest Realwest wrote:

I have 4 grandparents and 2 parents that are English and feel that I have no allegiance to England at all I’m born and bred in wales and think that’s the only country I should be available to play for 

Think the fact that people can identify as what they want is a huge part of what’s wrong with the world if I’m honest  


Absolutely archaic mindset.
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