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Wasp View Drop Down
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Points: 16843 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wasp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 September 2022 at 10:07pm
Originally posted by KID A KID A wrote:

Originally posted by Wasp Wasp wrote:

Could we mount a legal challenge over the CVC money? It's possible I guess.

My gut feeling, which is pure guesswork fed slightly by a few titbits I heard, is that we think we can ride this out, while others might not survive


That doesn't make it right. And doesn't sit well at all. Our own Union is trying to kill us. If we survived but Ospreys didn't because of this policy, and the debt being forced on us all, I think I would be done with the game.
I agree mate. “First they came for the Ospreys” etc.
We're still still here, but I wish we were in an Anglo-Welsh
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Wrecking Rugby Union. Have they even left the twentieth century? Not far off 3 decades of professional rugby and they're as clueless as ever. They just want 2 pro sides to keep the Wales team ticking over, ruining everything for the non daff wearing true rugby supporters. For which there isn't too many left. I mean look at Pontypridd v Cardiff last night, the supposed House of Pain was hardly packed to the rafters. And I can't see more than 10k - if that, turning up to the Parc in a couple of weeks. The sport is dying here. Its on its knees. 
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Originally posted by Brainfart Brainfart wrote:

Wrecking Rugby Union. Have they even left the twentieth century? Not far off 3 decades of professional rugby and they're as clueless as ever. They just want 2 pro sides to keep the Wales team ticking over, ruining everything for the non daff wearing true rugby supporters. For which there isn't too many left. I mean look at Pontypridd v Cardiff last night, the supposed House of Pain was hardly packed to the rafters. And I can't see more than 10k - if that, turning up to the Parc in a couple of weeks. The sport is dying here. Its on its knees. 


..and the WRU is doing its best to ensure it has complete control
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Originally posted by KID A KID A wrote:

Withhold players. Rip up agreements. Get lawyers in. Do anything possible to get change at the worst run Union in the game.

Steve Phillips wants 1 or 2 of our independent rugby teams gone. This is an attempt at putting us out of business the sly way. They need to be called out and Muderack needs to show backbone like Short and Gallacher did in the past.

Firstly thanks Steff. Secondly I am wholeheartedly behind Kid A's suggestions. Time for concerted action by ALL regions  - first step remove all players from International duty.
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Every time player release compensation has increased it's been balanced out by extra power for the WRU, it's probably now at the stalemate where neither party think they can 'win' the latest battle and it's now at the point of absurd suggestions like loans. The only thing that has never had to compromise is the national team.

Personally I think a much simpler funding process is needed where it's simply down to release campaign by campaign and a few easy development metrics, it does mean that there's more risk with the clubs because you could go from having a dozen in the national squad to one or 2 depending on form and fitness but that's what competitive sport and business is about, sitting in a comfort zone clearly doesn't work.

I can't see anything changing anytime soon though, there's no internal pressure on the WRU so they can afford to keep on dancing this not so merry dance whilst the national team continue to get everything it needs.

I do wonder what could have been achieved if the resources going into these discussions was used for something else, maybe it's time we walked away from the table and found out.
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Re: withholding players - A region would want a lawyer's opinion on exposure to action from players re: denial of earning potential with Wales.
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Points: 16843 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wasp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 September 2022 at 5:27pm
Originally posted by pillory pillory wrote:

Re: withholding players - A region would want a lawyer's opinion on exposure to action from players re: denial of earning potential with Wales.
The lawyer would be more interested in the wording of the contract between region and WRU.

IRB reg 9 means we have to release 5 days before any international in the agreed window. Not the 4th AI.


Edited by Wasp - 05 September 2022 at 5:29pm
We're still still here, but I wish we were in an Anglo-Welsh
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Muderack has, thankfully, come out swinging  - https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/62827704

TL:DR version is more debt for the regions is not an option, the benefactor model belongs in the 70's, the WRU needs to agree a multi-year deal so the regions can make multi-year plans like any normal business would, all 4 regions are resolute on this. Oh, and also he seems to suggest he's asking ECPR and URC for finals games to be held at the Parc, reading between the lines
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Another fantastic article Dai Sport. 

Simon putting the word out on BBC. We are all aware and I like that its in the public eye. Talks have begun but i won’t read too much into that. The next step would be to have some sort of campaign at each match making supporters more aware of the issues. 
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Some very interesting and informed comments on here. Can I thank all who have contributed.
It's great that Simon, our CEO, has highlighted these issues now, as WRU cannot then say, they were not warned.
Covid obviously dented WRU coffers, like everyone else, but they have other revenue streams coming in.
It's certainly a worrying situation, look at Worcester!
Think it's a case of "watch this space" now", and see whether there is a response from WRU
I stood yer on tanner bank
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Originally posted by Lincscarlet Lincscarlet wrote:

Muderack has, thankfully, come out swinging  - https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/62827704

TL:DR version is more debt for the regions is not an option, the benefactor model belongs in the 70's, the WRU needs to agree a multi-year deal so the regions can make multi-year plans like any normal business would, all 4 regions are resolute on this. Oh, and also he seems to suggest he's asking ECPR and URC for finals games to be held at the Parc, reading between the lines
stadium size an issue for european finals so is hotel soace, why not look at being hone for wales women football and rugby and under 20/21 rugby and football?
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Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

Originally posted by Lincscarlet Lincscarlet wrote:

Muderack has, thankfully, come out swinging  - https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/62827704

TL:DR version is more debt for the regions is not an option, the benefactor model belongs in the 70's, the WRU needs to agree a multi-year deal so the regions can make multi-year plans like any normal business would, all 4 regions are resolute on this. Oh, and also he seems to suggest he's asking ECPR and URC for finals games to be held at the Parc, reading between the lines
stadium size an issue for european finals so is hotel soace, why not look at being hone for wales women football and rugby and under 20/21 rugby and football?

Good suggestions there tbh mate - I think there's a political will to keep the under 20's in the north but surely as most of the players ae based between Llanelli-Newport it makes far more sense to have them based down here.
Wales women rugby would be good too, same reason. 

I can't see the football ones panning out, purely because once deadpool and his mate have finished revamping the racecourse they will push hard with a lot of clout at the welsh FA for those fixtures I'd imagine.

Something you see a lot of elite-level football clubs do in pre season is to hold a mini tournament at their stadium (emirates cup etc), If everyone uses 2 different starting teams you could easily pack a few games in over a weekend or just hold over 2 weekends.  The realities of doing that are obviously difficult to organise but it's an idea we could utilise and try to sell the tv rights off privately (split between the competing teams of course) without WRU/URC taking a cut?
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Slight tangent but catching up on a few podcasts recently which as usual referenced the tail wagging the dog when it comes to the structure of Welsh rugby, but as usual there were no specific examples of the amateur element of various WRU boards blocking money/changes at pro level.

Don't get me wrong I completely agree that the structure needs to change, decision making is slower and it's not a fit for purpose model but they take their steer from the 'professionals' and I'm not aware of any proposals to use the CVC funding to solve short term challenges, restructuring of debt or amending the compensation for player release set up getting to them or being opposed by them.

They may not be (or almost certainly aren't) challenging the executive team to address these problems but it seems like all the control is sitting with a very, very small group of people.

It continues to feel like getting around the table isn't getting us anywhere so might be time to walk away.
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Didn't want to start a new thread and this one seems quite appropriate to bolt onto but feels like now might be an opportune moment to join the English set up.

The last few years haven't really felt like it would fit into the English agenda as they've seemed pretty content with their set up but with financial worries around Worcester and Wasps, the London Irish owner looking to sell up, poor crowds at some clubs like Sale and Newcastle and discussions around promotion/relegation and the size of the English league it feels like there may be a window of opportunity.

There's also been question marks around the environmental impact of the URC which will likely grow and Europe feels like it's being increasingly marginalised with the format changes.

Personally I'd happily take 2 tiers of 10 pro teams (bottom 3 prem teams relegated, 4 Welsh and 3 from the championship) with 2 up/down every season. The Scottish teams could easily fit into this as well with 2 leagues of 12.

It makes pretty much every game driveable, grows crowds and matchday income, gives the leagues jeopardy and adds an extra dimension to the leagues with old rivalries renewed.

Rugby is trying to spread itself too widely and it's just a matter of time imo before we lose clubs and change is forced, might as well address it before we get to that point.
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  Apparently five English clubs having  major financial problems. 


Edited by 157cb - 21 September 2022 at 4:46pm
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Originally posted by 157cb 157cb wrote:


  Apparently five English clubs having  major financial problems. 
Saw an article a few weeks ago reporting debts as:
Wasps £112million, Bristol £57million (reported elsewhere as £51million), Saracens £40million, Newcastle £39 million, Bath £37million.
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