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Next Conservative leader

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Legendinmybathroom View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Legendinmybathroom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 October 2022 at 11:12am
Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Originally posted by KID A KID A wrote:

Originally posted by Legendinmybathroom Legendinmybathroom wrote:

It’s going to be down to Tory MPs, not the members.  Over half of his own MPs wanted him out earlier this year, so they will look incredibly 2 faced if the chose him again.
Plus he’s currently being investigated for deliberately misleading parliament over partygate, so putting him in the running and then possibly having to resign as an MP, if found guilty, would make the party even more embarrassing, farcical and despicable than it currently is.


https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1583091554574831617

You both make very fair but totally opposite cases. Logic legend would clearly suggest that Boris is a non starter but then you have to factor in how twitchy the Tory MP's are right now having seen the total & utter mess Truss has made in such a short time. With Boris in charge, even with all his issues, they still felt that they were in with a fighting chance of winning the next election such is Boris' skill at winning votes.

It would not surprise me one dot to see him being the only candidate to get 100 MPs backing.



I sadly have to concur with you, with this Tory party making lots of u-turns this year already, I fear that they will probably make the biggest u-turn in political history and vote him back in (not for the good of the country but for their own political survival), despite resigning in record numbers from his government and over 180 of them having a vote of no confidence in him just 4 months ago.

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RR1972 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RR1972 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 October 2022 at 11:58am
If it it goes to the members and bojo is on the ballot he will walk i
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Legendinmybathroom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 October 2022 at 12:10pm
So the Boris campaign is adamant that they have the votes he needs to stand to become PM again, yet no-one is able to corroborate these votes.  This sounds like the whole reason his premiership came to an undignified end - all positive sound bites with no clear evidence to back it up.
Alternative, it could be that Tory MPs support him in private, but are too embarrassed to admit to it, as they may suffer a backlash from the very electorate who elected them into office - so yet another despicable example of them putting the future of their party before that of the electorate and the country as a whole.
You would expect the likes of Rees-Morgan to support Boris but I’m surprised that NadhimZahawi has come out to support him as he was the first member of Boris’s government who actually went to speak to him to try and persuade him to stand down (before he was forced out), some Tory party MPs have no morales and will do just about anything to try and get a cabinet position at any expense.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 October 2022 at 12:19pm
Originally posted by Legendinmybathroom Legendinmybathroom wrote:

So the Boris campaign is adamant that they have the votes he needs to stand to become PM again, yet no-one is able to corroborate these votes.  This sounds like the whole reason his premiership came to an undignified end - all positive sound bites with no clear evidence to back it up.
Alternative, it could be that Tory MPs support him in private, but are too embarrassed to admit to it, as they may suffer a backlash from the very electorate who elected them into office - so yet another despicable example of them putting the future of their party before that of the electorate and the country as a whole.
You would expect the likes of Rees-Morgan to support Boris but I’m surprised that NadhimZahawi has come out to support him as he was the first member of Boris’s government who actually went to speak to him to try and persuade him to stand down (before he was forced out), some Tory party MPs have no morales and will do just about anything to try and get a cabinet position at any expense.

I think the calculation most of them are making is who stands the best chance of winning the next election so I have a chance of retaining my cushy number. Who can reverse the mess created by Boris & Truss comes a very distant 2nd. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roy munster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 October 2022 at 2:09pm
n the flip side with such an appallling gvt it does make you think how pathetic the opposition must be to to not be able to defeat them in 12 yrs
ROYMOND MUNTER MBE (FOR SERVICES TO THE COMBOVER)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Legendinmybathroom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 October 2022 at 2:32pm
Originally posted by roy munster roy munster wrote:

n the flip side with such an appallling gvt it does make you think how pathetic the opposition must be to to not be able to defeat them in 12 yrs

Well the opposition can only remove them if there is a GE, Tory MPs will not want that to happen (it would be like turkey’s voting for Christmas), so they will hold onto power until the very last minute, then the general public will have their say.
It is sad that labour couldn’t challenge them in 2016 and again in 2019.  Brexit was mooted by Cameron in 2016, winning over a lot of the electorate and Boris’s whole mandate was based on getting brexit done (I wonder how many brexiteer Tory voters now believe the hype about how it would transform our economy and help us to deliver all the new hospitals etc). 
Also in 2019 the Labour Party were almost as much of a laughing stock as the current Tory party and were totally unelectable under the idiotic Corbin and his lieutenants.  It’s interesting to see that the Labour Party members voted to elect him over Milliband, Burnham etc, and caused the party to implode, just like the Tory members voted in Truss and saw the government and the economy implode.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RR1972 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 October 2022 at 2:48pm
Originally posted by roy munster roy munster wrote:

n the flip side with such an appallling gvt it does make you think how pathetic the opposition must be to to not be able to defeat them in 12 yrs
fair point surely the torys can’t win the next one

Edited by RR1972 - 23 October 2022 at 2:53pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roy munster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 October 2022 at 6:49pm
Originally posted by Legendinmybathroom Legendinmybathroom wrote:

Originally posted by roy munster roy munster wrote:

n the flip side with such an appallling gvt it does make you think how pathetic the opposition must be to to not be able to defeat them in 12 yrs

Well the opposition can only remove them if there is a GE, Tory MPs will not want that to happen (it would be like turkey’s voting for Christmas), so they will hold onto power until the very last minute, then the general public will have their say.
It is sad that labour couldn’t challenge them in 2016 and again in 2019.  Brexit was mooted by Cameron in 2016, winning over a lot of the electorate and Boris’s whole mandate was based on getting brexit done (I wonder how many brexiteer Tory voters now believe the hype about how it would transform our economy and help us to deliver all the new hospitals etc). 
Also in 2019 the Labour Party were almost as much of a laughing stock as the current Tory party and were totally unelectable under the idiotic Corbin and his lieutenants.  It’s interesting to see that the Labour Party members voted to elect him over Milliband, Burnham etc, and caused the party to implode, just like the Tory members voted in Truss and saw the government and the economy implode.


Its a tragedy for the country that labour have been so weak. The tories have known this and robbed the country blind. All labour need to do is simply speak up for the masses. Sadly they havent communicated well enough with the 34 million workers and the millions of sme's. Instead theyve fallen into the trap of playing to the westminster media instead of the public. I think rachel reeves gave a good account of things last week and starmer has played a good straight bat recently. But hes not as popular as he thinks. 
ROYMOND MUNTER MBE (FOR SERVICES TO THE COMBOVER)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Legendinmybathroom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 October 2022 at 7:24pm
So Bojo has been to see maurdant this afternoon to ask her to stand aside, to believed that he has the right to ask someone who, by Tory standards, as conducted a fair campaign and served numerous leaders with distinction, to stand aside for him, who is still under investigation for deliberately misleading parliament, who has the unenviable honour of being the only PM to have committed an offence in office, which he would probably see as some kind of achievement.
He has the biggest ego of anyone in modern political history, and believes that he has a mandate to return as PM, regardless of his record, and the state of the Tory party.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roy munster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 October 2022 at 8:06pm
Has he really got the 100 needed? time running out bojo , 16 hours to persuade (bribe?) as many tories as possible...Can you even imagine the half baked broken promises he must me making atm?  His main cheerleader is the appallling rees mogg, theres a charming documentary on him here  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YOjdf_nkgTo

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Eastern outpost Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 October 2022 at 9:39pm
Johnson makes a conscious decision to pull out!!!!

After all this time, a lesson has been learned.

Had he learned it sooner, he could have paid for his own wallpaper.

For the avoidance of doubt, it’s not taking over Jon Daniels’ job. It’s far less serious and short-term, competing for the Tory leadership.

Source BBC website
In a world where you can be anything – Be Kind.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dyniol53 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 October 2022 at 11:39pm
Originally posted by roy munster roy munster wrote:

Its a tragedy for the country that labour have been so weak. The tories have known this and robbed the country blind. All labour need to do is simply speak up for the masses. Sadly they havent communicated well enough with the 34 million workers and the millions of sme's. Instead theyve fallen into the trap of playing to the westminster media instead of the public. I think rachel reeves gave a good account of things last week and starmer has played a good straight bat recently. But hes not as popular as he thinks. 

Think this is spot on
https://twitter.com/exile_podcast?lang=en
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Legendinmybathroom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 October 2022 at 12:24am
Press are stating that he didn’t have the support his campaign team said that he did, so rather than admit defeat he chose yet again to put a spin on it, claiming that it was his own decision, done in the best interests of the country.
This weekend he tried to negotiate a deal with both Maurdant and Sunak (hoping that they would just role over, which they weren’t happy to do).
Zahawi has now endorsed Sunak, that after supporting Boris earlier today, the guy is a disgrace and an embarrassment, if maurdant gets the 100 votes required and he feels has a chance of winning, no doubt he will change his mind yet again if he feels that it will get him a cabinet position.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 October 2022 at 8:10am
Originally posted by Legendinmybathroom Legendinmybathroom wrote:

Originally posted by roy munster roy munster wrote:

n the flip side with such an appallling gvt it does make you think how pathetic the opposition must be to to not be able to defeat them in 12 yrs

Well the opposition can only remove them if there is a GE, Tory MPs will not want that to happen (it would be like turkey’s voting for Christmas), so they will hold onto power until the very last minute, then the general public will have their say.
It is sad that labour couldn’t challenge them in 2016 and again in 2019.  Brexit was mooted by Cameron in 2016, winning over a lot of the electorate and Boris’s whole mandate was based on getting brexit done (I wonder how many brexiteer Tory voters now believe the hype about how it would transform our economy and help us to deliver all the new hospitals etc). 
Also in 2019 the Labour Party were almost as much of a laughing stock as the current Tory party and were totally unelectable under the idiotic Corbin and his lieutenants.  It’s interesting to see that the Labour Party members voted to elect him over Milliband, Burnham etc, and caused the party to implode, just like the Tory members voted in Truss and saw the government and the economy implode.


Legend I agree wholeheartedly with most of the above. As a brexiteer but not a tory voter I am not convinced that I am qualified to answer but what the hell. I think its a pretty pointless exercise trying to gauge any economic benefits gained or otherwise by the Brexit situation. As soon as Brexit arrived so did Covid along with the crippling effects not only to public health & well being but also to economic performance throughout Europe. 

Very soon after we started returning to some sort of normality Putin invaded Ukraine which has again led to totally unforeseen economic carnage throughout Europe. These two episodes are each once in a lifetime catastrophes but economies worldwide have had to try to deal with both within a couple of years.

Lets be honest to try to govern through these times would have been a challenge for any cabinet. The public would have accepted leaders making mistakes but not the downright lying & cheating which we have unfortunately been exposed to not only by Boris Johnson. We are not going to see an election any time soon - Starmer has to keep the pressure on but will find Sunak a totally different adversary than Boris. That is not to say that Labour don't have a good chance of success at the next election. Sunak will not be popular as he will have to make some tough decisions but he surely won't score so many own goals as his predecessors. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dr_martinov Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 October 2022 at 9:17am
Originally posted by roy munster roy munster wrote:

Originally posted by Legendinmybathroom Legendinmybathroom wrote:

Originally posted by roy munster roy munster wrote:

n the flip side with such an appallling gvt it does make you think how pathetic the opposition must be to to not be able to defeat them in 12 yrs

Well the opposition can only remove them if there is a GE, Tory MPs will not want that to happen (it would be like turkey’s voting for Christmas), so they will hold onto power until the very last minute, then the general public will have their say.
It is sad that labour couldn’t challenge them in 2016 and again in 2019.  Brexit was mooted by Cameron in 2016, winning over a lot of the electorate and Boris’s whole mandate was based on getting brexit done (I wonder how many brexiteer Tory voters now believe the hype about how it would transform our economy and help us to deliver all the new hospitals etc). 
Also in 2019 the Labour Party were almost as much of a laughing stock as the current Tory party and were totally unelectable under the idiotic Corbin and his lieutenants.  It’s interesting to see that the Labour Party members voted to elect him over Milliband, Burnham etc, and caused the party to implode, just like the Tory members voted in Truss and saw the government and the economy implode.


Its a tragedy for the country that labour have been so weak. The tories have known this and robbed the country blind. All labour need to do is simply speak up for the masses. Sadly they havent communicated well enough with the 34 million workers and the millions of sme's. Instead theyve fallen into the trap of playing to the westminster media instead of the public. I think rachel reeves gave a good account of things last week and starmer has played a good straight bat recently. But hes not as popular as he thinks. 

Not just the westminster media, just look at the grilling Labour get on BBC politics shows versus Conservatives... particularly on the economy and persistent question of "so who's going to pay for it then?". This is asked to Labour MPs all the time, yet Conservatives - the people actually in charge - get away with it. So you get the very cautious Starmer (who I doubt has unrealistic views of his own popularity BTW).

Let's be honest, our media, possibly majority population, is small c conservative and many top political journalists are very close to the Conservative Party... same schools, Unis, social circles. This allows them to control the narrative and suppress any real alternative points of view by presenting them as radical socialism. The reality is the hard right, ERG types are actually themselves radical and also have put in place incompetent leaders that has resulted in enormous sums of money lost - test and trace, fraud, Trussonomics you name it - but they escape the total destruction any Labour government would have faced. 

And by coincidence the Conservatives also are very good at making the rich richer. This is their primary economic aim.

The game is completely rigged by a minority, even now this latest leadership campaign is the lesser of two evils for a good 60% of the population (by 2019 GE results, likely much greater now) yet is coming across as though there are no other options, where the Conservatives should rightly be put over the fire for even allowing this situation to happen in the first place with Johnson and then Truss. 

At the very least, their self-appointed reputation for financial capability should be destroyed.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dr_martinov Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 October 2022 at 2:58pm
@chakrabortty
"Whatever side you're on, whatever your ethnicity, this is truly a historic moment.
The UK has its first Goldman Sachs Prime Minister."

Made me laugh.
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